do you guys remember the thing where mel got a t1 opportunity taken away cause a player didnt want to play with a woman
theres no way that was ever going to go through all the way cause she is so bad. she woulda had like a .45 k/d with terrible calls and util use (not saying it didnt happen cause she was a woman but it woulda fell through anyway cause she isnt a top 50 gc player let alone a top 50 player)
also does anyone have the source on that comment i cant find it
Isn't Game changers already considered tier 1. Since it has to be higher than the ascension league since the game changers league actually has international lans, while ascension at most has a regional Lan. Riot recognizes the game changers championship with a buddy and title in game just like every other international lan.
ButterflyEffect23 [#2]someone said to me that the team that refused to trial out meL was called "Pioneers"
idk that's NOT a tier-1 team to me
ohhh so it was an old thing by the time they brought it up then. i remember the story came out during franchising time but pioneers wasnt around then.
even then she wasnt good enough for kcp imo
kanyefan4238173 [#4]ohhh so it was an old thing by the time they brought it up then. i remember the story came out during franchising time but pioneers wasnt around then.
even then she wasnt good enough for kcp imo
apparently a non-fragging IGL with mid calling was stopped by sexism and misogyny
I'm not buying it sadly
ButterflyEffect23 [#5]apparently a non-fragging IGL with mid calling was stopped by sexism and misogyny
I'm not buying it sadly
maybe it did but it wouldnt matter cause she would get dropped after going double negative against huge jass construction
kanyefan4238173 [#6]maybe it did but it wouldnt matter cause she would get dropped after going double negative against huge jass construction
it might be true but she's just not good enough to make it into tier-1
and Pioneers were not even tier-1 at the time, if I remember correctly
ButterflyEffect23 [#7]it might be true but she's just not good enough to make it into tier-1
and Pioneers were not even tier-1 at the time, if I remember correctly
Shes already in tier 1
Camden [#8]Shes already in tier 1
I don't really think that Game Changers are a tier-1 competition
I prefer to differentiate the competitions by the level of play
for the females and marginalized genders GC is tier-1, but in reality it's more like tier-3, in my opinion
ButterflyEffect23 [#9]I don't really think that Game Changers are a tier-1 competition
I prefer to differentiate the competitions by the level of play
for the females and marginalized genders GC is tier-1, but in reality it's more like tier-3, in my opinion
It has to be higher than the ascension league since the game changers league actually has international lans, while ascension at most has a regional Lan. Riot recognizes the game changers championship with a buddy and title in game just like every other international lan.
Camden [#10]It has to be higher than the ascension league since the game changers league actually has international lans, while ascension at most has a regional Lan. Riot recognizes the game changers championship with a buddy and title in game just like every other international lan.
Ascension league is miles ahead in terms of level of play tbh.
That's why I have Ascension and Challengers ahead of GC
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tb7uh6w7XUk
FNS on V1 Mel Drama about Male Player rejected Female to play in Tier 1 VCT
Iquickscopei [#12]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tb7uh6w7XUk
FNS on V1 Mel Drama about Male Player rejected Female to play in Tier 1 VCT
thanks bro
ButterflyEffect23 [#11]Ascension league is miles ahead in terms of level of play tbh.
That's why I have Ascension and Challengers ahead of GC
ascension league doesnt even have an international lan
Camden [#14]ascension league doesnt even have an international lan
so what bro? they play better, that's why i rate Challengers and Ascension higher. that's my point.
kanyefan4238173 [#13]thanks bro
I can't find the orinigal source but here is tarik reacting to it
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z8P3G0Iacgg
Camden [#3]Isn't Game changers already considered tier 1. Since it has to be higher than the ascension league since the game changers league actually has international lans, while ascension at most has a regional Lan. Riot recognizes the game changers championship with a buddy and title in game just like every other international lan.
i mean theres not really clear tiers for anything other than open franchising and open challengers but gc has an international lan because its not connected to tier 1 franchised valorant and is separate
ButterflyEffect23 [#15]so what bro? they play better, that's why i rate Challengers and Ascension higher. that's my point.
They play better is not an arguement. Plus there's no evidence of them playing better. For example is a division 2 college team beats a D1 college it doesn't make the d2 college d1. They are still D2
Camden [#18]They play better is not an arguement. Plus there's no evidence of them playing better. For example is a division 2 college team beats a D1 college it doesn't make the d2 college d1. They are still D2
oh brother
any team from the VCT Franchised Leagues and Ascension is not dropping a single map in Game Changers, what evidence do we need
ButterflyEffect23 [#2]someone said to me that the team that refused to trial out meL was called "Pioneers"
idk that's NOT a tier-1 team to me
KCP was tier 1.5 I'd say, beat other tier 2 teams but couldn't make it to tier 1.
ButterflyEffect23 [#19]oh brother
any team from the VCT Franchised Leagues and Ascension is not dropping a single map in Game Changers, what evidence do we need
So in the NBA theres a tier 2 league called the G league and some G league teams can probably beat many piss poor countries international teams at the olympics. We wouldn't say the G league is better than the olympics
Camden [#3]Isn't Game changers already considered tier 1. Since it has to be higher than the ascension league since the game changers league actually has international lans, while ascension at most has a regional Lan. Riot recognizes the game changers championship with a buddy and title in game just like every other international lan.
To be fair, the recognition riot gives is for the welfare and the promotion of gender equality in the fps, and in the general gaming scene.
The point is, recognition does not equal elevated level of play. i think riot is doing good work with supply the GC scene with more recognition, but it's very clear that the level of competition is below tier 2. this might sound misogynistic, but to be blunt, many GC players in general have never even hit radiant or even imm3, whereas the average tier 2 player has hit radiant for a few acts, showing consistency to perform at the highest level.
TL;DR: Riot recognizes GC more b/c its been a marginalized scene and had low windows of opportunity in the past. recognition is therefore not equal to skill, as proven by many forms of statistics.
Dreoxx [#23]To be fair, the recognition riot gives is for the welfare and the promotion of gender equality in the fps, and in the general gaming scene.
The point is, recognition does not equal elevated level of play. i think riot is doing good work with supply the GC scene with more recognition, but it's very clear that the level of competition is below tier 2. this might sound misogynistic, but to be blunt, many GC players in general have never even hit radiant or even imm3, whereas the average tier 2 player has hit radiant for a few acts, showing consistency to perform at the highest level.
TL;DR: Riot recognizes GC more b/c its been a marginalized scene and had low windows of opportunity in the past. recognition is therefore not equal to skill, as proven by many forms of statistics.
this point makes no sense. There are plenty of GC players that are radiant. Youre assuming that high rank in valorant competitive mode makes good pros. How is GC not a higher tier than valorant ascension league when they get way more peak viewers
Camden [#24]this point makes no sense. There are plenty of GC players that are radiant. Youre assuming that high rank in valorant competitive mode makes good pros. How is GC not a higher tier than valorant ascension league when they get way more peak viewers
because it appeals to women who want to see women play
also na t2 matches get similar views to gc na matches
and more popular definitely does not equal better i dont even need an example to prove that
Camden [#24]this point makes no sense. There are plenty of GC players that are radiant. Youre assuming that high rank in valorant competitive mode makes good pros. How is GC not a higher tier than valorant ascension league when they get way more peak viewers
ranked is merely a show of mechanical skill in an uncoordinated environment. ranked only proves that if you outaim, you win.
however, it is a tac FPS after all, and aim is a very relevant part of VALORANT.
on the other hand, if you want to talk about general pro play and organized/constructed gameplay, there has been instances of very washed tier 1 players rolling through in-form tier 2 players, but giving benefit of doubt, let's just claim that they are merely showmatches/friendlies, so they aren't too relevant.
even with this point across, tier 2 pros have proven that they roll through GC competition. in a few years I hope that GC can send some players to t1, but I don't think it'll be too soon.
kanyefan4238173 [#25]because it appeals to women who want to see women play
also na t2 matches get similar views to gc na matches
and more popular definitely does not equal better i dont even need an example to prove that
So in the NBA theres a tier 2 league called the G league and some G league teams can probably beat many piss poor countries international teams at the olympics. We wouldn't say the G league is better than the olympics
Camden [#27]So in the NBA theres a tier 2 league called the G league and some G league teams can probably beat many piss poor countries international teams at the olympics. We wouldn't say the G league is better than the olympics
I'm about to shoot myself in the head five times in a row with a shotgun
Camden [#27]So in the NBA theres a tier 2 league called the G league and some G league teams can probably beat many piss poor countries international teams at the olympics. We wouldn't say the G league is better than the olympics
shit makes 0 sense retard get another analogy
Camden [#27]So in the NBA theres a tier 2 league called the G league and some G league teams can probably beat many piss poor countries international teams at the olympics. We wouldn't say the G league is better than the olympics
bro, this is just nitpicking now.
the g league is comprised of males, not females. you're also referring to the g league stomping "piss poor countries" at the Olympics, against other males. how is this anecdote relevant to the argument.
jesus christ. i really don't get on how many levels you could introduce fallacious statements
Dreoxx [#26]ranked is merely a show of mechanical skill in an uncoordinated environment. ranked only proves that if you outaim, you win.
however, it is a tac FPS after all, and aim is a very relevant part of VALORANT.
on the other hand, if you want to talk about general pro play and organized/constructed gameplay, there has been instances of very washed tier 1 players rolling through in-form tier 2 players, but giving benefit of doubt, let's just claim that they are merely showmatches/friendlies, so they aren't too relevant.
even with this point across, tier 2 pros have proven that they roll through GC competition. in a few years I hope that GC can send some players to t1, but I don't think it'll be too soon.
How have they proven to roll through GC competition? Bob played in both leagues.
success in one league doesn't necessarily determine success in the next league such as N4rrate and Johnqt. BCJ and scewface are world champion in Tier 1 but are both struggling in tier 2.
Dreoxx [#30]bro, this is just nitpicking now.
the g league is comprised of males, not females. you're also referring to the g league stomping "piss poor countries" at the Olympics, against other males. how is this anecdote relevant to the argument.
jesus christ. i really don't get on how many levels you could introduce fallacious statements
Wdym. Are you saying women can’t compete against men in an esport???
GC isn’t just for women
Camden [#31]How have they proven to roll through GC competition? Bob played in both leagues.
success in one league doesn't necessarily determine success in the next league such as N4rrate and Johnqt. BCJ and scewface are world champion in Tier 1 but are both struggling in tier 2.
and if I mention about Bob... i would be labeled as a misogynist, but as far as I know bob has been trans even before EXO.
oh, and even with that unsaid point across, Bob is one player out of countless in GC. where is your point?
Camden [#32]Wdym. Are you saying women can’t compete against men in an esport???
GC isn’t just for women
how did you even get this from what I said? i never said gc is just for women, did I?
are you trying to distort what I just said to make me look like I'm tryna insult GC?
Dreoxx [#34]how did you even get this from what I said? i never said gc is just for women, did I?
are you trying to distort what I just said to make me look like I'm tryna insult GC?
OH BROTHERS why are you still arguing with this guy, this is literally insanity
Dreoxx [#33]
- Johnqt did very well in M80, lead his team to solid 2nd in ascension, your point is stupidly invalid.
- N4RRATE? doing bad on MAD? are you fucking joking. bro was held back by his team. look at his career stats and he has a positive rating on almost every agent he touches.
- BcJ got fucked over by EG, man still has potential
- Screwface? Champ in Tier 1? are you fucking joking? THIS GUY PLAYED 0 MATCHES FOR EG I CANT LOOOOOOL
and if I mention about Bob... i would be labeled as a misogynist, but as far as I know bob has been trans even before EXO.
oh, and even with that unsaid point across, Bob is one player out of countless in GC. where is your point?
What about rossy
Camden [#36]What about rossy
are you going to try to nitpick every single player that fits your tiny frame?
also you are also wrong on this point LOL
rossy did pretty bad in his stints in TSM and FAZE, but as time passed, you could see his improvement as a player and as a teammate, especially in the long stretch of games he had with TT (Turtle Troop). This is where his form came in, and T1 saw this and picked him up. now, he's doing great!
next player? you're currently 0/6 on players that you thought would fit your ridiculous example.
ButterflyEffect23 [#35]OH BROTHERS why are you still arguing with this guy, this is literally insanity
ngl its kind of funny, and i recently quit debate club, so I guess I'm just exercising my debating skills against these insane people haha
I also just have a tendency to argue haha
Dreoxx [#37]are you going to try to nitpick every single player that fits your tiny frame?
also you are also wrong on this point LOL
rossy did pretty bad in his stints in TSM and FAZE, but as time passed, you could see his improvement as a player and as a teammate, especially in the long stretch of games he had with TT (Turtle Troop). This is where his form came in, and T1 saw this and picked him up. now, he's doing great!
next player? you're currently 0/6 on players that you thought would fit your ridiculous example.
how am i 0-6 when all these players performed very differently in both leagues
Dreoxx [#34]how did you even get this from what I said? i never said gc is just for women, did I?
are you trying to distort what I just said to make me look like I'm tryna insult GC?
Why mention that men play against men in olympics vs the NBA. what does that change for esports
Camden [#39]how am i 0-6 when all these players performed very differently in both leagues
please refer to my previous messages.
all of these examples were either very incorrect or they gradually got better/in-form.
Dreoxx [#38]ngl its kind of funny, and i recently quit debate club, so I guess I'm just exercising my debating skills against these insane people haha
I also just have a tendency to argue haha
Heres another analogy. Although the NBA has more skill than those who play in the olympics. The NBA is still a regional league just like ascension league whereas the olympics is an international league like GC. The olympics is higher tier achievement than the nba.
Camden [#40]Why mention that men play against men in olympics vs the NBA. what does that change for esports
you said the example, not me!
im saying that men play against men in the NBA and the men's category of the olympics because you tried using these examples to compare to t2 (99% being men) versus GC (marginalized genders and identities).
you started making irrelevant comparisons, so I merely pointed it out.
Camden [#42]Heres another analogy. Although the NBA has more skill than those who play in the olympics. The NBA is still a regional league just like ascension league whereas the olympics is an international league like GC. The olympics is higher tier achievement than the nba.
dawg what? NBA is known worldwide for being the top level of competition. players from worldwide compete in the NBA as well (doncic, antetokounmpo, porzingis, jokic, gobert, sabonis, schroder, the list goes on). meanwhile, the olympics has a way lower bar for competition, with only a few dominant teams with many players from the NBA. This proves that the NBA has a far higher bar of skill.
You compared the NBA (top tier of play, pseudo-international), with ascension (tier 2, region-based international) which is incorrect.
You also compared GC (detached from the rest of the VCT circut, region-based international), with the olympics (low tier of play, international). This is also incorrect.
While the Olympic has a higher tier of achievement, why does the USA dominate so much? Probably because the regional competition, the NBA IS the most dominant scene in basketball. This also points towards the Olympics having a lower bar of competition than the NBA.
Dreoxx [#44]dawg what? NBA is known worldwide for being the top level of competition. players from worldwide compete in the NBA as well (doncic, antetokounmpo, porzingis, jokic, gobert, sabonis, schroder, the list goes on). meanwhile, the olympics has a way lower bar for competition, with only a few dominant teams with many players from the NBA. This proves that the NBA has a far higher bar of skill.
You compared the NBA (top tier of play, pseudo-international), with ascension (tier 2, region-based international) which is incorrect.
You also compared GC (detached from the rest of the VCT circut, region-based international), with the olympics (low tier of play, international). This is also incorrect.While the Olympic has a higher tier of achievement, why does the USA dominate so much? Probably because the regional competition, the NBA IS the most dominant scene in basketball. This also points towards the Olympics having a lower bar of competition than the NBA.
mfs I ate a small box of pizza and you're still arguing lmaooooo
ButterflyEffect23 [#45]mfs I ate a small box of pizza and you're still arguing lmaooooo
just sit back and get a box of popcorn or something
I just got unemployed because I stood up for another employee when she wasn't getting paid for her overtime
Dreoxx [#44]dawg what? NBA is known worldwide for being the top level of competition. players from worldwide compete in the NBA as well (doncic, antetokounmpo, porzingis, jokic, gobert, sabonis, schroder, the list goes on). meanwhile, the olympics has a way lower bar for competition, with only a few dominant teams with many players from the NBA. This proves that the NBA has a far higher bar of skill.
You compared the NBA (top tier of play, pseudo-international), with ascension (tier 2, region-based international) which is incorrect.
You also compared GC (detached from the rest of the VCT circut, region-based international), with the olympics (low tier of play, international). This is also incorrect.While the Olympic has a higher tier of achievement, why does the USA dominate so much? Probably because the regional competition, the NBA IS the most dominant scene in basketball. This also points towards the Olympics having a lower bar of competition than the NBA.
But thats my arguement. Skill doesn't determine the Tier of competition. NBA is not pseudo international. N stands for national.
Dreoxx [#46]just sit back and get a box of popcorn or something
I just got unemployed because I stood up for another employee when she wasn't getting paid for her overtime
this some bullshit man
you're a great man for standing up to this bs king
Camden [#47]But thats my arguement. Skill doesn't determine the Tier of competition. NBA is not pseudo international. N stands for national.
it does for esports sorry bro
Camden [#47]But thats my arguement. Skill doesn't determine the Tier of competition. NBA is not pseudo international. N stands for national.
you just proved my point.
ButterflyEffect23 [#48]this some bullshit man
you're a great man for standing up to this bs king
appreciate the kind words
Dreoxx [#50]you just proved my point.
How am i proving your point. Skill does not equal tier of competition. NBA more skill full and a national league. olympics less skillful but higher tier of competition.
Camden [#52]How am i proving your point. Skill does not equal tier of competition. NBA more skill full and a national league. olympics less skillful but higher tier of competition.
early you implied that GC is tier 1. by saying that skill doesn't determine the tier of competition, you would be discrediting your own point!
this is assuming that skills DOESN'T determine the tier of competition.
your initial point was that gc is no worse than t2 because it has a higher tier but now you're saying that skill does not equal tier?
full of contradictions my dude, perhaps use your brain for a quick second
Dreoxx [#53]early you implied that GC is tier 1. by saying that skill doesn't determine the tier of competition, you would be discrediting your own point!
this is assuming that skills DOESN'T determine the tier of competition.
your initial point was that gc is no worse than t2 because it has a higher tier but now you're saying that skill does not equal tier?
full of contradictions my dude, perhaps use your brain for a quick second
Literally yes. I never said the skill in GC was greater. I said they are tier 1. All my analogies implied that skill doesn't equal the tier of competition. When I said when a D2 college beats a D1 colleges doesn't make the d2 college d1. When I said although the NBA has more skill, the olympics is still a higher tier of competition. This thread is asking if mel is tier 1. I just said shes already in tier 1
Camden [#54]Literally yes. I never said the skill in GC was greater. I said they are tier 1. All my analogies implied that skill doesn't equal the tier of competition. When I said when a D2 college beats a D1 colleges doesn't make the d2 college d1. When I said although the NBA has more skill, the olympics is still a higher tier of competition. This thread is asking if mel is tier 1. I just said shes already in tier 1
OC was referring tier 1 to the tier 1 in the main VCT circuit, not GC tier 1 (where there is technically only one officially recognized tier)
absolutely idiotic if you twisted that into your delusions of referring GC to tier 1
since you love analogies, I'll give a proper one:
the NBA is tier 1 in the basketball scene. the WNBA is also tier 1 in its own scene. when people talk about the highest tier of competition in basketball, absolutely NO ONE would refer to the WNBA.
Camden [#22]So in the NBA theres a tier 2 league called the G league and some G league teams can probably beat many piss poor countries international teams at the olympics. We wouldn't say the G league is better than the olympics
example: https://www.vlr.gg/279602/g2-gozen-vs-fokus-red-bull-home-ground-4-emea-qualifier-round-robin
watch the vod + Fokus is a tier2 team btw
Camden [#18]They play better is not an arguement. Plus there's no evidence of them playing better. For example is a division 2 college team beats a D1 college it doesn't make the d2 college d1. They are still D2
Huh? Top GC teams get curbstomped in Challengers Quals every year. They don't even make it to the ascension league. Tier 2 teams are better than those teams.
kanyefan4238173 [#4]ohhh so it was an old thing by the time they brought it up then. i remember the story came out during franchising time but pioneers wasnt around then.
even then she wasnt good enough for kcp imo
kentavious caldwell pope
Camden [#22]So in the NBA theres a tier 2 league called the G league and some G league teams can probably beat many piss poor countries international teams at the olympics. We wouldn't say the G league is better than the olympics
trying so hard to bait my god
Camden [#21]So in the NBA theres a tier 2 league called the G league and some G league teams can probably beat many piss poor countries international teams at the olympics. We wouldn't say the G league is better than the olympics
saying the same point 5 times doesnt make it correct dumbass
Psion [#58]kentavious caldwell pope
Kinda dumb that kentavious’ parents named him that like bro they shoulda known people would confuse him for the Kansas city pioneers
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