Riot over-nerfing

#1

eric_5008

Don't get me wrong, I think agent changes are needed to balance the game but why destroy agents? I hated the chamber meta as much as the next guy, but I think he should still be viable across maps. Astra isn't even played anymore. Now viper, she's even more static then ever now.

What is the point of the cypher cam change? I thought he was supposed to be a spy. "One way" cams are pointless now because now the opponent doesn't have to see the cam to know cypher is there like the A ramp cam on split or the DFM cam for market on ascent.

#2

realvizierr

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whats the cypher cam nerf, I cant find any video on it

#3

TM06Nick

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It gives you a notice that youre being watched like when yoru is looking at you in his ult

#4

Costofequity

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wait thats actually a good change

#6

eric_5008

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You like the change?

#9

Shawn23

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ruins the whole point of hidden cams and a lurk being spotted it’s just something completely unnecessary.

viper changes were needed tho imo.

#13

Costofequity

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ruins the whole point of hidden cams

no it doesnt dont be dramatic

#21

Shawn23

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you could literally spot a lurk and kill them without them knowing you saw them.

Now when you lurk you’ll know when our lurk has been seen and just run back, it’s not being dramatic it’s a change that makes a character that was already balanced enough just worse again.

just touching shit that dosent need to be touched.

#39

Costofequity

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dramatic ahh low elo noob thinks thats gonna matter lol

#40

number1_cned_hater

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It will??? When you have a cam while enemy is fighting they usually dont notice it?? You can see it in vct too, Giving a huge audio q like yoru ruins it.
also shawn is def higher rank than u

#41

Ailed

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youve awoken the beast

#44

number1_cned_hater

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Hello alied

#45

Ailed

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can u please dm me who u were before the name change :( i wont leak

continue thread →

#52

sneks

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see round 6 on Lotus from EG vs NRG. Marved gets spotted by the Cypher cam lurking through C into waterfall and he doesn't know he's been seen but EG do and are waiting for him

#5

OnyX_01

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not only that bleeping audio as well.

#7

realvizierr

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I know that, I just wanted to see the change ingame cuz I didnt find any videos on how it sounds or looks like now

#43

Ailed

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its a really quiet, directional, pulsing noise thats quieter the further you are away. if you are execing site and its a hidden cam there is no way you will hear over the other noise, if you are far away lurking and the cam spots you for a second you probably also wont hear it. I dont think its the worst change, just deters the sitting in cam the whole round playstyle

https://youtu.be/59LLiEw3uZ8?si=BlhRZ41LDhMwzHpA (1:00)

in this vid they are right next to the cam, and the volume is turned up so you can hear it better. im not joking when i say that if you far away it is very very hard to hear, by far the most obscure sound cue in this game

#8

babysasuke

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This is how Riot has always been

It's not just about balance, they're also manipulating the meta to keep the game interesting

#10

Shawn23

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i understand it, but keeping a agent dead for a year+ and on is kinda wild.

#14

babysasuke

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kind of, but it is what it is

I'm more concerned about the new agents they keep releasing that have never been relevant at all

#23

SoupMaster

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gekko?

#24

babysasuke

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was 3 agents ago and useless for the first few months until they buffed the pick up time on his abilities

small edit: not useless, just cleared by skye

#28

Shawn23

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gekko would’ve thrived day 1 if skye wasn’t op, then skye nerfs happened, hence why you see gekko actually used now

#51

Sunyc

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No, he needed to be buffed, and he was

#25

Shawn23

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i think the characters they release atp are just for the ranked players, but the balancing of the agents are more focused towards the pro play. like no way they decided to make iso, clove and deadlock and thought “ this would be good for pro play day 1 “ all of them are gonna need tweaks to be ready for pro play. ISO will probably never ever be used at a master.

#36

SoupMaster

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If you think about it, balancing the game for pro play is exactly what they should be doing. Casual and low ranked play is just about fun and having a decent variety of agents, maps, abilities, and guns is going to make sure that most people can find fun ways to play at all levels. In order for the pro scene to survive, as in continue to attract viewers (advertisers $$), it has to be fun to watch and not stagnant from one split or major event to the next. The way to do that is to balance the game around the pro meta and avoid power creep to keep the meta shifting just enough to keep things interesting to watch.

#31

cioccolat

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lets not forget technically Harbor is still useless, only use he has is on the Swamp comp and now that viper has been murdered harbor will NOT be seeing proplay

#35

SoupMaster

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He's really only viable on one map (Icebox) as is but I would love to see them buff his kit by replacing cascade with something more impactful. Compared to Viper mollies as a stall ability it's basically worthless. The slow feels inconsequential most of the time.

#11

arin2016

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j0hnqt kkkkkkkk

#12

senplswin

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seriously bro......like now viper has only 1 molly?? like the sky flash can be used only once bruh....ok this is even manageable
CAN'T PICK UP THE ORB??????????
The viper wall is already like use and throw now the orb too??
The orb is a SMOKE and a SMOKE's characteristic is that it can be used ANYWHERE ON THE MAP

if riot wants varying meta and not like viper or chamber then stop making dogshit maps

#15

SoupMaster

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Nerfing the most picked agents is a much better way to make balance changes than buffing the weakest ones because you can avoid power creep that way. Viper is currently very high pick rate and good on basically every single map, she's a perfect candidate for a nerf. You have to understand they can't just leave the game balance as is because people will get bored and stop playing. They can't just buff the weakest agents because the power creep will spiral out of control. It's the same for Cypher imo. He's good/viable on basically every map and the fact that there are tons of cam spots where he can just watch you clear site without you knowing is just way too much free information. These are actually good changes.

#26

senplswin

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why does any agent get highly picked and other picked at 0%
lets say why isnt ISO picked in pro-play

because it has no "good" abilities which can support your team or even yourself
name 1 map where you can run ISO as your primary duelist. and thats the role he's made for DUELS

why is viper picked so much in pro play

it as a wall which blocks view and leads to more util usage by team ( which riot wants - util based game )
it has a smoke which causes decay ( a little diff than other smoke agents ) but basically smoke and wall to block view
it's mollies get you vulnerable just like other abilities like kj granade and kayo one etc

Now riot games release shit ass maps and in the name or "REWORK" they do nothing on breeze or icebox which leads to no meta change and then agent nerf
Viper is a perfect agent acc to the comparison and ISO on the other hand is a terrible agent. Hence Inference =

give nice maps.....and please change maps when you say "REWORK"
dont release ass agents which serve no TEAM HELP cuz its a 5v5 game not 1v1

#27

eric_5008

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The part that I struggle with is that I feel like viper's pickrate is super high more due to map pool than her being strong. Icebox, Breeze, Bind, Lotus are all maps that are difficult to defend without a wall smoke, but I understand what youre saying

#33

SoupMaster

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Not really, viper is still in most pro comps for fracture and pretty much mandatory on pearl. The fact that a compact map with few small chokepoints like Split still gets a viper on both teams most of the time should be a giveaway that the agent is just stronger than the others at that role. I think the intention with Harbor was to create some diversity in controller picks which would cause a much bigger variety of comps at the pro level, keeping things interesting for viewers. They gave him a wall so that he would be an option over Viper but the rest of his kit just cannot compete with hers. Personally I think it's just cascade that is really underwhelming and the rest of his kit is fine but I'm not sure how to fix that. I think just replace cascade with a better ability altogether and we'll see more diversity in comps. (After Viper is nerfed of course, that also needs to happen imo.)

#16

the_invincible49

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Will the notification come even when the cam is not active or is it when the cam is active?

#18

kalayav_n

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You are being watched. Camera is a proud sponsor of YAY. ~~10k Charges will be pressed~~

#19

TM06Nick

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Specifically when the cam is watching you like yoru ult

#22

the_invincible49

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Then it's fine I guess. It just makes it one time thing in spotting the players. It makes the timing of using it very important, but can be managed as far as I think.

#17

kalayav_n

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bros sad he cant play post plant mollies LOOOL

#29

eric_5008

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Yeah bro, I'm desperate for elo over here. I'll take what I can get LMAO

#32

kalayav_n

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SOBBB

#20

hellfire

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riot desperately wants to shift a meta using the "overcentralizing" argument on agents as if their kits weren't designed for a certain playstyle that is seen optimally in pro play

they killed chamber (nerf was needed) and have refused to fix his kit, cypher was shit just until some patchs ago, now viper is getting nerfed in a way that ultimately kills how the agent is played (same thing as chamber), lmao they should rather focus on giving small buffs to other agents or just releasing agents that could fullfill a certain role like viper's screens etc

#30

the_invincible49

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Viper has a very big advantage when it comes to the ult. The ult is a very big factor when teams decide their comp. I doubt it will kill the agent but can definitely vary its pick rate.

#34

trikecycle

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They seem to do a billion little nerfs that do nothing and then bam huge nerf that actually changes viability. Happened with chamber skye and now viper

#37

Zephyros

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bro instead of killing agents y cant we make other agents viable
when was the last time u saw astra or harbour being picked

#38

bronzil_enjoyer

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only prx plays harbor on bind but i never saw astra

mb geng played it on breeze

#42

Ullyr

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It's good . In a game with abilities it's good to make changes to keep it fresh also personally some of the util are way too impactful imo. Riot knows what they're doing they kept league alive 10+ years