Even though bleed lost they showed a complete tacitcal superiority in comparison to RRQ, they had reads nearly every round. If they just woke up their aim they could have easily won both games (which were close already). Their form looks really good rn and the depth and layers of their gameplay makes me incredibly hopeful for this team. IMO they will easily beat zeta as their stats are much better (they are nearly at prime optic form)
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Bleed not even playing bad
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Dawn4k [#3]Only 1 player have +kd, no one have rating >1... THEIR BEST PLAYER IS A FUCKING CONTROLLER...
Louds best player is a controller. Doesn't mean shit
Zerphyr1 [#6]Louds best player is a controller. Doesn't mean shit
thats this year...And LOUD are underperforming rn so yeah.Last year their duelist was clear mvp
Dawn4k [#3]Only 1 player have +kd, no one have rating >1... THEIR BEST PLAYER IS A FUCKING CONTROLLER...
nah the truth is their highest fragger is a baiter
champ2k21 [#8]thats this year...And LOUD are underperforming rn so yeah.Last year their duelist was clear mvp
THEY GOT 4TH AT THE LAST EVENT TF U MEAN UNDERPERFORMING
Psion [#15]THEY GOT 4TH AT THE LAST EVENT TF U MEAN UNDERPERFORMING
loud not winning trophy is underperforming, thats their level keke
Psion [#15]THEY GOT 4TH AT THE LAST EVENT TF U MEAN UNDERPERFORMING
they placed 4th out of EIGHT TEAMS lil bro, and this is fucking LOUD we're talking about.We're used to seeing them get top 3 every tournament dont act like qck wasnt a huge downgrade from aspas
champ2k21 [#18]they placed 4th out of EIGHT TEAMS lil bro, and this is fucking LOUD we're talking about.We're used to seeing them get top 3 every tournament dont act like qck wasnt a huge downgrade from aspas
no, 4th out of 44 teams that could've won the event lol
i never mentioned QCK not being a downgrade stop making shit up
Hashib [#17]loud not winning trophy is underperforming, thats their level keke
not meeting expectations and under performing are different things
Hashib [#21]huh?
their expectations are to win events, so they've only reached expectations once. the only 2 events you can say they've underperformed are Copenhagen and tokyo
Psion [#19]no, 4th out of 44 teams that could've won the event lol
i never mentioned QCK not being a downgrade stop making shit up
nah, u shouldnt be using kickoffs as a metric since LOUD didnt face every other team in the season .The tournament being single elim didnt help either.....and when they finally faced NRG they got humbled.
Psion [#22]their expectations are to win events, so they've only reached expectations once. the only 2 events you can say they've underperformed are Copenhagen and tokyo
underperforming is a relative term my guy.When I meant LOUD underperforming, i meant that they're still not at the level they are supposed to be rn.I doubt LOUD would be even top 5/6 in shanghai ngl
PS :LOUD already has this standard to be maintaining ever since 2022. Remember when fnatic got shit on by heretics last week and the whole fanbase went "Fnatic's finished" etc.Thats because they're expected to perform better given their last yr performance
champ2k21 [#23]nah, u shouldnt be using kickoffs as a metric since LOUD didnt face every other team in the season .The tournament being single elim didnt help either.....and when they finally faced NRG they got humbled.
LOUD also didn't play every other team at madrid so we can't use the madrid metric either by your logic.....
they faced NRG after not touching the game for TWO WEEKS outside of saadhak and almost took a map stil..... holy fucking shit
Psion [#15]THEY GOT 4TH AT THE LAST EVENT TF U MEAN UNDERPERFORMING
loud was never good they have always been one the worst if not the worst teams in terms of tactical abilities and layers and they have no midround potential either thanks to their confusing comps, honestly i am suprised they are even in franchising.
champ2k21 [#24]underperforming is a relative term my guy.When I meant LOUD underperforming, i meant that they're still not at the level they are supposed to be rn.I doubt LOUD would be even top 5/6 in shanghai ngl
PS :LOUD already has this standard to be maintaining ever since 2022. Remember when fnatic got shit on by heretics last week and the whole fanbase went "Fnatic's finished" etc.Thats because they're expected to perform better given their last yr performance
they got 4th at madrid
have beaten the #1 team in the world
and their only losses are to #2 /#3(PRX & GenG) and #4 (NRG)
that is not underperforming....
underperforming is not getting at least 3rd/4th at an event
Psion [#27]they got 4th at madrid
have beaten the #1 team in the world
and their only losses are to #2 /#3(PRX & GenG) and #4 (NRG)
that is not underperforming....
underperforming is not getting at least 3rd/4th at an event
The guy is just yapping. Talking about underperforming for a team who lost the best player itw and still getting top 4 in a int lan...
Leave him alone
Psion [#25]LOUD also didn't play every other team at madrid so we can't use the madrid metric either by your logic.....
they faced NRG after not touching the game for TWO WEEKS outside of saadhak and almost took a map stil..... holy fucking shit
LOUD placed 4th in a double elimination format, where winning/losing one game doesnt guarantee that ur elimination and that they get an oppurtunity to do better next time.They fumbled against GENG, and again against a "jingless" paper rex . If this was the kickoff format GenG would've won am i right??
My point still stands though, aspas would've gotten much better results probably compete with geng and sen for the trophy but sadly i dont think their in contention for championship AS OF NOW(opinions probably will change by the end of season)
The_Cleg [#29]The guy is just yapping. Talking about underperforming for a team who lost the best player itw and still getting top 4 in a int lan...
Leave him alone
if we don't try to educate people we won't get anywhere lol
champ2k21 [#30]LOUD placed 4th in a double elimination format, where winning/losing one game doesnt guarantee that ur elimination and that they get an oppurtunity to do better next time.They fumbled against GENG, and again against a "jingless" paper rex . If this was the kickoff format GenG would've won am i right??
My point still stands though, aspas would've gotten much better results probably compete with geng and sen for the trophy but sadly i dont think their in contention for championship AS OF NOW(opinions probably will change by the end of season)
bro saying they would've gotten better results than aspas is NOT YOUR POINT. no on ever argued that.
your point was that a team that has only lost to #1, 2, 3 and 4 ITW while also beating #1 in the world is underperforming.
Psion [#27]they got 4th at madrid
have beaten the #1 team in the world
and their only losses are to #2 /#3(PRX & GenG) and #4 (NRG)
that is not underperforming....
underperforming is not getting at least 3rd/4th at an event
kickoff results dont mean shit they got doggystyled by sen later on.And they got 4th in a tournament that had only 8 teams by the way, two of which are china which are literally free wins(unless ur paper rex who likes to throw)
Again, what i meant by them underperforming was that they're not at their level anymore i dont think they'll even make top 4 in shanghai
champ2k21 [#33]kickoff results dont mean shit they got doggystyled by sen later on.And they got 4th in a tournament that had only 8 teams by the way, two of which are china which are literally free wins(unless ur paper rex who likes to throw)
Again, what i meant by them underperforming was that they're not at their level anymore i dont think they'll even make top 4 in shanghai
they are literally 5-5 vs SEN on maps total, and in the series at madrid they were +19 on kills even after losing map 1 13-4.
you act like only 8 teams could've made madrid, they got 4th out of 8 teams who each got top 2 out of 11 teams
Psion [#31]if we don't try to educate people we won't get anywhere lol
U r just gonna lose time. Trust me Ive been there
The_Cleg [#35]U r just gonna lose time. Trust me Ive been there
i have plenty of time to lose brother, i've got more time to lose than fnatic has games to lose
Psion [#32]bro saying they would've gotten better results than aspas is NOT YOUR POINT. no on ever argued that.
your point was that a team that has only lost to #1, 2, 3 and 4 ITW while also beating #1 in the world is underperforming.
You're not even replying to my main point.The reason they came so far was because of the formatting of the tournament.Only credible win i can see is sen but you cant guage anything from a first time matchup since they got beat later. They got fuckin EG in the playoffs while NRG had to play sen......
Coming to Madrid, Two of the teams were chinese and two of the eu teams were playing from inexperience....4th place would mean more if they did it at shanghai than madrid
Psion [#36]i have plenty of time to lose brother, i've got more time to lose than fnatic has games to lose
Bro did NOT have to cook my team this hard😭😭😭
The_Cleg [#39]Bro did NOT have to cook my team this hard😭😭😭
i didn't know how else to quantify it im sorry lmaoo
Psion [#34]they are literally 5-5 vs SEN on maps total, and in the series at madrid they were +19 on kills even after losing map 1 13-4.
you act like only 8 teams could've made madrid, they got 4th out of 8 teams who each got top 2 out of 11 teams
you dodged my main point again.Just because KC and TH qualified doesnt mean they're EMEAs best, when you had teams like NAVI maybe FUT too who could've qualified too.And TH got shit on by vitality and same thing with KC by the hands of fut.Even DRX in pacific and NRG in NA could've had the potential to qualify
Eight teams is jsut too small of a number to call a 4th place finish good imo esp with two chinese slots there
IM NOT SAYING LOUD IS BAD BUT THEY'RE NOT PLAYING LIKE THEY WERE BEFORE.THATS WHAT I MEANT BY THEIR UNDERPERFORMING
The_Cleg [#29]The guy is just yapping. Talking about underperforming for a team who lost the best player itw and still getting top 4 in a int lan...
Leave him alone
Mate you should'nt be talking right now im trying to explain what i meant when i said they were "underperfoming".
champ2k21 [#41]you dodged my main point again.Just because KC and TH qualified doesnt mean they're EMEAs best, when you had teams like NAVI maybe FUT too who could've qualified too.And TH got shit on by vitality and same thing with KC by the hands of fut.Even DRX in pacific and NRG in NA could've had the potential to qualify
Eight teams is jsut too small of a number to call a 4th place finish good imo esp with two chinese slots thereIM NOT SAYING LOUD IS BAD BUT THEY'RE NOT PLAYING LIKE THEY WERE BEFORE.THATS WHAT I MEANT BY THEIR UNDERPERFORMING
- DRX were not qualifying with how they played at kickoff, and if they did they wouldn't of beaten LOUD
- EMEA's best should've qualified. You cannot discredit LOUD and say they are underperforming because the best teams in other regions underperformed
- FPX sure ONE slot wasted(on a team that is still top 15 in ITW) but EDG is still a solid team lmfao.
- i'm not saying its an ideal finish for LOUD, but 4th place in the world is not a bad enough finish to say they are underperforming. we know what LOUD is like when they underperform at tournaments (0-2, -24 & Top 8 at Tokyo) LOUD went 2-3 with +10 on round diff at madrid, they obliterated a team who got 5th-6th.
EDIT: idk what ur edit was, assume i was responding to the original message
Psion [#34]they are literally 5-5 vs SEN on maps total, and in the series at madrid they were +19 on kills even after losing map 1 13-4.
you act like only 8 teams could've made madrid, they got 4th out of 8 teams who each got top 2 out of 11 teams
and yeah the only wins they got on madrid are against BOTH CHINESE teams while getting shit on by both the pacific teams theres no way you can call a good performance whatsover
champ2k21 [#44]and yeah the only wins they got on madrid are against BOTH CHINESE teams while getting shit on by both the pacific teams theres no way you can call a good performance whatsover
I don't have to call it a good performance for LOUD, that would be if i was saying LOUD overperformed or met expectations.
you are arguing LOUD underperformed and that their play at madrid was bad enough to warrant it, I am arguing their play was fine because they still got fucking 4th in the world
champ2k21 [#38]You're not even replying to my main point.The reason they came so far was because of the formatting of the tournament.Only credible win i can see is sen but you cant guage anything from a first time matchup since they got beat later. They got fuckin EG in the playoffs while NRG had to play sen......
Coming to Madrid, Two of the teams were chinese and two of the eu teams were playing from inexperience....4th place would mean more if they did it at shanghai than madrid
no your main point is that LOUD underperformed and my point is that LOUD didn't underperform. I'm not dodging anything
Psion [#43]
- DRX were not qualifying with how they played at kickoff, and if they did they wouldn't of beaten LOUD
- EMEA's best should've qualified. You cannot discredit LOUD and say they are underperforming because the best teams in other regions underperformed
- FPX sure ONE slot wasted(on a team that is still top 15 in ITW) but EDG is still a solid team lmfao.
- i'm not saying its an ideal finish for LOUD, but 4th place in the world is not a bad enough finish to say they are underperforming. we know what LOUD is like when they underperform at tournaments (0-2, -24 & Top 8 at Tokyo) LOUD went 2-3 with +10 on round diff at madrid, they obliterated a team who got 5th-6th.
EDIT: idk what ur edit was, assume i was responding to the original message
EDG is borderline tier 2 NA level my guy.NAVI, FUT, FNATIC, DRX, NRG would've all beat these shitters.When they played against LOUD, it was just fucking horrible, literally global esports level horrible.It makes me pissed as to why china are getting these slots for free.
LOUD's only wins are against both the chinese teams in madrid
And they proceeded to get shit on by both the pacific teams who both fell to sen.....
I never discredited LOUD's performance when i said that they're underperforming.Both Fnatic, DRX and LOUD all are underperforming
I'm sorry if you interpreted my statement as,"LOUD is a shit team, they're doing so shit right now", no they are still very good, what i meant was that LOUD's masters madrid run was an "underperformance" compared to last year or even before that.
champ2k21 [#47]EDG is borderline tier 2 NA level my guy.NAVI, FUT, FNATIC, DRX, NRG would've all beat these shitters.When they played against LOUD, it was just fucking horrible, literally global esports level horrible.It makes me pissed as to why china are getting these slots for free.
LOUD's only wins are against both the chinese teams in madrid
And they proceeded to get shit on by both the pacific teams who both fell to sen.....I never discredited LOUD's performance when i said that they're underperforming.Both Fnatic, DRX and LOUD all are underperforming
I'm sorry if you interpreted my statement as,"LOUD is a shit team, they're doing so shit right now", no they are still very good, what i meant was that LOUD's masters madrid run was an "underperformance" compared to last year or even before that.
- EDG borderline tier 2 beat PRX lmfaooooo
- and? their only losses are to top 4 teams in the world which are all closely knit.
- I never said you have to discredit LOUD to say they are underperfoming lmao
- I never said that or misinterpreted anything stop making shit up lmfao. they averaged 4.333 at international events in 2023 and 5th place in 2022 the idea that they somehow underperformed does not make sense
edit: changed wording for #3, point is the same
Psion [#45]I don't have to call it a good performance for LOUD, that would be if i was saying LOUD overperformed or met expectations.
you are arguing LOUD underperformed and that their play at madrid was bad enough to warrant it, I am arguing their play was fine because they still got fucking 4th in the world
THATS WHAT IM SAYING, IVE BEEN TRYING TO REPEAT THIS 3 TIMES. LOUD "UNDERPERFORMED" MEANING THEY ARENT PERFORMING NEAR THE LEVEL THEY WERE LAST YEAR.
I just think we should stop this argument,I feel this is a misunderstanding of what i was trying convey my guy
champ2k21 [#49]THATS WHAT IM SAYING, IVE BEEN TRYING TO REPEAT THIS 3 TIMES. LOUD "UNDERPERFORMED" MEANING THEY ARENT PERFORMING NEAR THE LEVEL THEY WERE LAST YEAR.
I just think we should stop this argument,I feel this is a misunderstanding of what i was trying convey my guy
you probably just don't know what underperforming means, its "to do worse than" and in #48 i discussed how they placed similar to or better than their average placement over the past 2 years. They haven't had any losses that stand out to say they are underperforming while they have literally beat sentinels
Psion [#48]
- EDG borderline tier 2 beat PRX lmfaooooo
- and? their only losses are to top 4 teams in the world which are all closely knit.
- I never said you have to discredit LOUD to say they are underperfoming lmao
- I never said that or misinterpreted anything stop making shit up lmfao. they averaged 4.333 at international events in 2023 and 5th place in 2022 the idea that they somehow underperformed does not make sense
edit: changed wording for #3, point is the same
1.PRX lost because they were legit throwing rounds like ccrazy.And this same Paper rex beat LOUD.Keep in mind this is a paper rex without jinggg, their MVP last year.
- 1-2 and 5-13 third map against GENG and 0-2 while 13-8 second map against PRX isnt close either.Sure LOUD was competitive but they lost pretty convincingly...
And this is LOUD we're talking about, with players like saadhak and Less, dont you think they'd be closing out these games more often than not?
3.Bruh i never directly called them bad, I was replying to you saying that i cannot discredit LOUD just because other teams are underperforming too.Yes they are also "underperforming", and so is LOUD.Stop making shit up bru lmao
4.In all int events LOUD occured, they had to face and beat the best teams to get to where they are.Compared to madrid, where they only won against Chinese teams.And i def think this is a clear misinterpretation, what i meant by underperforming is that they're performing relatively worse than last year, like not what we'd expect from them.Maybe thats just due to other teams getting better idk
Psion [#50]you probably just don't know what underperforming means, its "to do worse than" and in #48 i discussed how they placed similar to or better than their average placement over the past 2 years. They haven't had any losses that stand out to say they are underperforming while they have literally beat sentinels
its used in different context, usually when a team is not performing as expected, which is what i meant. It means "to do worse than EXPECTED" . A LITERAL GOOGLE SEARCH SAYS IT BRO
4th place madrid dont mean shit compared to 4th place in the previous events purely because of the competition relative to prior events
Psion [#46]no your main point is that LOUD underperformed and my point is that LOUD didn't underperform. I'm not dodging anything
Also i like how the debate has just been about my usage of the word "underperforming".I think debating any further would be a waste of time as we're literally just going in circles.....
champ2k21 [#52]its used in different context, usually when a team is not performing as expected, which is what i meant. It means "to do worse than EXPECTED" . A LITERAL GOOGLE SEARCH SAYS IT BRO
4th place madrid dont mean shit compared to 4th place in the previous events purely because of the competition relative to prior events
LOUD didn't meet expectations at Reyjavik, does that mean they underperform? they were expected to win the event coming into it but didn't. That doesn't mean they underperformed
Psion [#55]LOUD didn't meet expectations at Reyjavik, does that mean they underperform? they were expected to win the event coming into it but didn't. That doesn't mean they underperformed
WHAT?didnt meet expectations at Reyjavik???Where their opponent was literally Prime OpTic ?Now you're misusing the phrase "didnt meet expectations"
Also that was LOUD's first ever LAN event all they've proved so far until then is that they can batter a bunch of t2 teams in brazil. OpTiC were favoured to win the event but LOUD was expected to give up a fight, and they did
champ2k21 [#56]WHAT?didnt meet expectations at Reyjavik???Where their opponent was literally Prime OpTic ?Now you're misusing the phrase "didnt meet expectations"
Also that was LOUD's first ever LAN event all they've proved so far until then is that they can batter a bunch of t2 teams in brazil. OpTiC were favoured to win the event but LOUD was expected to give up a fight, and they did
Optic were not favored coming into the event. They weren't the #1 seed out of americas and they lost to Guard, V1, and Rise and almost lost to C9 in playoffs. They were a different beast than what was expected.
LOUD didn't drop a map, and with EMEA having issues, LOUD were favorites
champ2k21 [#51]1.PRX lost because they were legit throwing rounds like ccrazy.And this same Paper rex beat LOUD.Keep in mind this is a paper rex without jinggg, their MVP last year.
- 1-2 and 5-13 third map against GENG and 0-2 while 13-8 second map against PRX isnt close either.Sure LOUD was competitive but they lost pretty convincingly...
And this is LOUD we're talking about, with players like saadhak and Less, dont you think they'd be closing out these games more often than not?
3.Bruh i never directly called them bad, I was replying to you saying that i cannot discredit LOUD just because other teams are underperforming too.Yes they are also "underperforming", and so is LOUD.Stop making shit up bru lmao
4.In all int events LOUD occured, they had to face and beat the best teams to get to where they are.Compared to madrid, where they only won against Chinese teams.And i def think this is a clear misinterpretation, what i meant by underperforming is that they're performing relatively worse than last year, like not what we'd expect from them.Maybe thats just due to other teams getting better idk
- if PRX threw rounds against a tier2 NA team they'd still win 2-0, this is just coping
- in meteor's own words "i don't think I could beat LOUD if we played them again, and vs PRX that was LOUD on a bad day vs PRX on a good day, but sure
- i never said you directly called them bad
- at events LOUD underperformed they lost to teams that didn't end up placing top 3(KRU, EDG), they did not do that this time. none of their losses at madrid or this year show underperformance.
Psion [#55]LOUD didn't meet expectations at Reyjavik, does that mean they underperform? they were expected to win the event coming into it but didn't. That doesn't mean they underperformed
Ill give you another example to explain to you what i really meant by "underperforming"
You remember fnatic in 2022 yeah? like after they brought in alfajer and they started dominating emea??Then what happened?They choked champions and bombed out at 5/6th place while their second seed, the team that they beat 2-1 and again 3-0 in the GF, placed higher than them
Thats what i would call underperformance...
champ2k21 [#59]Ill give you another example to explain to you what i really meant by "underperforming"
You remember fnatic in 2022 yeah? like after they brought in alfajer and they started dominating emea??Then what happened?They choked champions and bombed out at 5/6th place while their second seed, the team that they beat 2-1 and again 3-0 in the GF, placed higher than them
Thats what i would call underperformance...
yes thats an underperformance,
they lost to the #12, #6, and #3 teams at that event and ended 6th
meanwhile LOUD lost to #1, #2, and #3 and got 4th
both teams came in themselves expecting to make top 4 minimum, and thats what LOUD did
Psion [#57]Optic were not favored coming into the event. They weren't the #1 seed out of americas and they lost to Guard, V1, and Rise and almost lost to C9 in playoffs. They were a different beast than what was expected.
LOUD didn't drop a map, and with EMEA having issues, LOUD were favorites
LOUD hasnt proved anything either.At the time brazil was just a one team region.And its LOUD's first int event they werent clear favourites or anything. Some people had their bets on TGRD, some on DRX, some others on PRX and probably fnatic if they had their full roster, and even people believed in optic because of last year(aside from the bomb out in champions gp stage cuz X10 was their kryptonite)
OpTic lost to shitty teams but also beat the best teams in NA so they already made a statement for themselves.They've already made a reputation for themselves as a team that always does their homework so you wont be able to beat them twice....
Psion [#60]yes thats an underperformance,
they lost to the #12, #6, and #3 teams at that event and ended 6th
meanwhile LOUD lost to #1, #2, and #3 and got 4th
both teams came in themselves expecting to make top 4 minimum, and thats what LOUD did
Im saying this for like the 5th time already, 4th in madrid is not equivalent to 4th in previous events, purely because of the level of competition....And my original statement came from watching the games, cause LOUD really seemed bad especially the paper rex game.....
champ2k21 [#47]EDG is borderline tier 2 NA level my guy.NAVI, FUT, FNATIC, DRX, NRG would've all beat these shitters.When they played against LOUD, it was just fucking horrible, literally global esports level horrible.It makes me pissed as to why china are getting these slots for free.
LOUD's only wins are against both the chinese teams in madrid
And they proceeded to get shit on by both the pacific teams who both fell to sen.....I never discredited LOUD's performance when i said that they're underperforming.Both Fnatic, DRX and LOUD all are underperforming
I'm sorry if you interpreted my statement as,"LOUD is a shit team, they're doing so shit right now", no they are still very good, what i meant was that LOUD's masters madrid run was an "underperformance" compared to last year or even before that.
Alright. Respectfully, and without offence, I would like to know what you're smoking. Just because they lost to a LOUD side on a bad day doesn't mean they're borderline tier 2 NA level. That'd be like saying that M80 or even MostxShopify is fair game to beat them... EDG has proved time and time again that they are a top team in the world and yes, they were garbage in that series against LOUD but I don't see why pro teams --especially one with less experience-- can't have a bad day.
EDG beat Paper Rex and played quite well against a team that would be favorites 90% of the time. (I'm ignoring #51 because you're just coping there),
Reading all of your comments, it seems like you just undervalue/underestimate the CN region immensely. But I don't blame you! FPX had no place at that tournament and it's understandable that teams from a newer region would be looked down on but FPX played pretty competitvely against KC and LOUD, so I don't get why you're making them sound weaker than they are.
Sure, EDG underperformed heavily during that last series against LOUD, but I still don't think there's a valid reason that backs you calling them a "borderline tier 2" team.
As for your main point that LOUD underperformed, I personally don't think so. In fact, I'd say that they actually did quite well considering the form the other teams like Sentinels and GenG were in. Okay they lost out to PRX and finished fourth but it's not like they didn't put up a fight against them.
champ2k21 [#61]LOUD hasnt proved anything either.At the time brazil was just a one team region.And its LOUD's first int event they werent clear favourites or anything. Some people had their bets on TGRD, some on DRX, some others on PRX and probably fnatic if they had their full roster, and even people believed in optic because of last year(aside from the bomb out in champions gp stage cuz X10 was their kryptonite)
OpTic lost to shitty teams but also beat the best teams in NA so they already made a statement for themselves.They've already made a reputation for themselves as a team that always does their homework so you wont be able to beat them twice....
neither NIP nor VK were bad teams, VK came off champs where they should've beaten the eventual winner acend (thats an entirely different discussion) and NIP were better than them. and LOUD beat them +55 on rounds across 3 series and 8 maps
champ2k21 [#62]Im saying this for like the 5th time already, 4th in madrid is not equivalent to 4th in previous events, purely because of the level of competition....And my original statement came from watching the games, cause LOUD really seemed bad especially the paper rex game.....
4th in madrid is literally better than 4th at Lock\in
you had to win 3 games and play 4 to get 4th at Lock\in
you had to win between 5 and 7 to get 4th at madrid and play between 9 and 12
their game vs PRX was literally them at their worst. they had a bad performance in that game, that doesn't mean they underperformed across the whole of madrid and kickoff
Psion [#64]neither NIP nor VK were bad teams, VK came off champs where they should've beaten the eventual winner acend (thats an entirely different discussion) and NIP were better than them. and LOUD beat them +55 on rounds across 3 series and 8 maps
Lemme ask you a question, do you really think NIP/VK would've even made it to the top top 4 in that event.NA had OpTic(they were known for beating really good teams, and losing to bad ones), and TGRD, who looked SO fucking good in the event. Even DRX, they were looking really good too...LOUD were expected to be a threat, but so was TGRD and DRX
champ2k21 [#66]Lemme ask you a question, do you really think NIP/VK would've even made it to the top top 4 in that event.NA had OpTic(they were known for beating really good teams, and losing to bad ones), and TGRD, who looked SO fucking good in the event. Even DRX, they were looking really good too...LOUD were expected to be a threat, but so was TGRD and DRX
the people that expected TGRD to win are delusional fans, they were rookies. a team of rookies won't win an event (bar berlin and reykjavik 21)
no i wouldn't expect either of them to make top 4, but if you switched NIP or VK (Latam/BR #2) with Optic (NA #2) I think they makes playoffs over xerxia
edit: don't -> wouldn't
Psion [#68]the people that expected TGRD to win are delusional fans, they were rookies. a team of rookies won't win an event (bar berlin and reykjavik 21)
no i wouldn't expect either of them to make top 4, but if you switched NIP or VK (Latam/BR #2) with Optic (NA #2) I think they makes playoffs over xerxia
edit: don't -> wouldn't
Understand the scene of valorant back then bro.It wasnt delusion or anything whatsoever back then because most average viewers didnt know the importance of vct experience back then. But now the game has evolved much ever since, your point would definitely apply in the current stages of vct
And NA had much better competition than BR, if you really though VK/NIP would stand a chance in qualifying in NA then thats just cope lmao
champ2k21 [#69]Understand the scene of valorant back then bro.It wasnt delusion or anything whatsoever back then because most average viewers didnt know the importance of vct experience back then. But now the game has evolved much ever since, your point would definitely apply in the current stages of vct
And NA had much better competition than BR, if you really though VK/NIP would stand a chance in qualifying in NA then thats just cope lmao
- most viewers not understanding the value of experience is not my problem, I'm not saying the little timmies expected them to win
- thats not what im saying, im saying move optic to group A, and move VK/NIP to group B, and they make playoffs
Dawn4k [#3]Only 1 player have +kd, no one have rating >1... THEIR BEST PLAYER IS A FUCKING CONTROLLER...
remove that flag dawg
geospliced [#63]Alright. Respectfully, and without offence, I would like to know what you're smoking. Just because they lost to a LOUD side on a bad day doesn't mean they're borderline tier 2 NA level. That'd be like saying that M80 or even MostxShopify is fair game to beat them... EDG has proved time and time again that they are a top team in the world and yes, they were garbage in that series against LOUD but I don't see why pro teams --especially one with less experience-- can't have a bad day.
EDG beat Paper Rex and played quite well against a team that would be favorites 90% of the time. (I'm ignoring #51 because you're just coping there),
Reading all of your comments, it seems like you just undervalue/underestimate the CN region immensely. But I don't blame you! FPX had no place at that tournament and it's understandable that teams from a newer region would be looked down on but FPX played pretty competitvely against KC and LOUD, so I don't get why you're making them sound weaker than they are.
Sure, EDG underperformed heavily during that last series against LOUD, but I still don't think there's a valid reason that backs you calling them a "borderline tier 2" team.
As for your main point that LOUD underperformed, I personally don't think so. In fact, I'd say that they actually did quite well considering the form the other teams like Sentinels and GenG were in. Okay they lost out to PRX and finished fourth but it's not like they didn't put up a fight against them.
sorry, i made a mistake about calling edg a tier 2 team but my point still isnt refuted. I personally do think LOUD has underperformed at least they should've been close to beating paper rex dont you think. 13-11 and 13-8 didnt seem that close to me tbh.The same goes for us losing against sen with similar scores....
My opinion really just came up after watching these games.Like in alot of the rounds they felt pretty disjointed and sometimes unaware of the opponent thats what i felt in their games in madrid.(Except the EDG game they were pretty good) I expected for them to be able to close out games cuz they've had world class players like saadhak and less....
Psion [#65]4th in madrid is literally better than 4th at Lock\in
you had to win 3 games and play 4 to get 4th at Lock\in
you had to win between 5 and 7 to get 4th at madrid and play between 9 and 12
their game vs PRX was literally them at their worst. they had a bad performance in that game, that doesn't mean they underperformed across the whole of madrid and kickoff
your comparing masters madrid(major) to a fucking kickoff tournament with single elim format are you crazy?
Im referring to the actual major events that make sense
champ2k21 [#73]your comparing masters madrid(major) to a fucking kickoff tournament with single elim format are you crazy?
Im referring to the actual major events that make sense
they are both kickoff tournaments... the only events you should call majors are champs
Psion [#70]
- most viewers not understanding the value of experience is not my problem, I'm not saying the little timmies expected them to win
- thats not what im saying, im saying move optic to group A, and move VK/NIP to group B, and they make playoffs
1.Exactly my point, most of the valorant fanbase were the little timies(i.e casual viewers) they see TGRD playing so good and winning and then think that they could carry on their performance.And not just them, even DRX and PRX were also looking pretty good in regions which were more competitive than brazil.(Except korea thats also a one team region)
2.Thats not a fair comparison to do mate, this is brazil's SECOND seed we're talking about, I could say the same thing about putting C9 and XSET in GRP B while putting optic in group A
Psion [#74]they are both kickoff tournaments... the only events you should call majors are champs
No, masters are considered major tournaments by a majority of the fanbase...
And btw getting 4th in lock in is tougher than 4th in madrid:
Its a single elimination tournament all the way through, so theres no room for error here
You also have to get lucky with the draws and just hope you get some trash teams in your draws
In madrid, LOUD faced EDG and FPX while in LOCK in LOUD had to scrap by beating NRG(If you've watched the game, it was an IGLing master class from both sides) and a really good looking DRX to reach GF
champ2k21 [#75]1.Exactly my point, most of the valorant fanbase were the little timies(i.e casual viewers) they see TGRD playing so good and winning and then think that they could carry on their performance.And not just them, even DRX and PRX were also looking pretty good in regions which were more competitive than brazil.(Except korea thats also a one team region)
2.Thats not a fair comparison to do mate, this is brazil's SECOND seed we're talking about, I could say the same thing about putting C9 and XSET in GRP B while putting optic in group A
- when i say expected to win i am saying analysts are picking them to win, not the average viewer
- your question was " do you really think NIP/VK would've even made it to the top top 4 in that event." and i am showing you how strong i think they are by doing a 1:1 comparison
Psion [#77]
- when i say expected to win i am saying analysts are picking them to win, not the average viewer
- your question was " do you really think NIP/VK would've even made it to the top top 4 in that event." and i am showing you how strong i think they are by doing a 1:1 comparison
2.My original point was how far ahead the NA region was so LOUD's dominance in BR region didnt mean as much as it SHOULD'VE, and you're out here picking out IDEAL draws that they're not even guaranteed to win...You give those same games to C9 or XSET (who didnt qual btw), and they'd have a higher chance of qualifying
Psion [#77]
- when i say expected to win i am saying analysts are picking them to win, not the average viewer
- your question was " do you really think NIP/VK would've even made it to the top top 4 in that event." and i am showing you how strong i think they are by doing a 1:1 comparison
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_rUxOAFyyqQ even TMV didnt even put LOUD in the grandfinals?
THIS IS DEFINITELY NOT UNDERPERFORMING MY GUY
champ2k21 [#79]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_rUxOAFyyqQ even TMV didnt even put LOUD in the grandfinals?
THIS IS DEFINITELY NOT UNDERPERFORMING MY GUY
you notice how high he was on EMEA copium here right?
champ2k21 [#76]No, masters are considered major tournaments by a majority of the fanbase...
And btw getting 4th in lock in is tougher than 4th in madrid:
Its a single elimination tournament all the way through, so theres no room for error here
You also have to get lucky with the draws and just hope you get some trash teams in your draws
In madrid, LOUD faced EDG and FPX while in LOCK in LOUD had to scrap by beating NRG(If you've watched the game, it was an IGLing master class from both sides) and a really good looking DRX to reach GF
we have to use riot's logic, just like Valve sponsors majors so either
Lock\in and Madrid are both the equivalent of a major
or neither are and only champs is
look at the path Navi and DRX took to get 4th lmao
whatever 3 teams you pick from LOUD's roadmap, LOUD's 3 teams top to bottom are better relative to Eras
whatever team u pick > Lev & talon
FPX (2nd worst) > C9 and TS
EG (worst) > BBL & Kru
Psion [#80]you notice how high he was on EMEA copium here right?
your argument still doesnt stand lol, give me one source which outright predicted LOUD winning the entire thing, ive already provided you with platchat
champ2k21 [#82]your argument still doesnt stand lol, give me one source which outright predicted LOUD winning the entire thing, ive already provided you with platchat
I'm the source, I consider myself an analyst and I predded LOUD to win
Psion [#80]you notice how high he was on EMEA copium here right?
yeah Putting DRX over LOUD, definitely EMEA copium 😂 😂
champ2k21 [#85]yeah Putting DRX over LOUD, definitely EMEA copium 😂 😂
bro he had G2 and Liquid ending 2nd and 6th while they ended 6th and 8th. LMFAO
champ2k21 [#78]2.My original point was how far ahead the NA region was so LOUD's dominance in BR region didnt mean as much as it SHOULD'VE, and you're out here picking out IDEAL draws that they're not even guaranteed to win...You give those same games to C9 or XSET (who didnt qual btw), and they'd have a higher chance of qualifying
you asked me how strong I thought they were, and i gave u a reasonable answer that let you equivalate how strong i thought they were. That is all
Psion [#84]I'm the source, I consider myself an analyst and I predded LOUD to win
😂 😂At this point either you're just trolling or jsut debating to waste my time
How do I know if you're a verified analyst like TMV, or sideshow?
You arent proving anything most people INCLUDING THE ANALYSTS didnt predict LOUD winning
champ2k21 [#88]😂 😂At this point either you're just trolling or jsut debating to waste my time
How do I know if you're a verified analyst like TMV, or sideshow?
You arent proving anything most people INCLUDING THE ANALYSTS didnt predict LOUD winning
.
Psion [#86]bro he had G2 and Liquid ending 2nd and 6th while they ended 6th and 8th. LMFAO
And no one predicted zeta 3rd place finish either??He's an analyst bro
Ur point still dont make sense how does DRX beating loud mean EMEA copium?
champ2k21 [#90]And no one predicted zeta 3rd place finish either??He's an analyst bro
Ur point still dont make sense how does DRX beating loud mean EMEA copium?
yk he also had liquid beating LOUD right? anyway im sleeping?
Psion [#91]yk he also had liquid beating LOUD right? anyway im sleeping?
thats def EMEA copium but DRX over LOUD is not
champ2k21 [#72]sorry, i made a mistake about calling edg a tier 2 team but my point still isnt refuted. I personally do think LOUD has underperformed at least they should've been close to beating paper rex dont you think. 13-11 and 13-8 didnt seem that close to me tbh.The same goes for us losing against sen with similar scores....
My opinion really just came up after watching these games.Like in alot of the rounds they felt pretty disjointed and sometimes unaware of the opponent thats what i felt in their games in madrid.(Except the EDG game they were pretty good) I expected for them to be able to close out games cuz they've had world class players like saadhak and less....
Aye it's all good I just can't let others throw such shade on edg for less valid reasons. As for LOUD underperforming, personally I think they did fine but you clearly know more about them than I do so I'm not going to go against you on that one. Have a good one though and sorry if my comment came across negatively for whatever reason. 👍
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