The inevitable truth is OpTic made him into a superstar. Their long-time chemistry is what made him succeed. FNS calls alongside Victor & Crashies support made it easier for him to reach such heights, and more importantly, pre-nerf chamber made him. Without all of these tools by his side, sadly, he is just y0y
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yay case conclusion
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Conceit [#3]I mean he was really good before chamber, but the stuff about Optic is true
He was really good because he was in good positions to get kills as Jett thanks to his team's callings. FNS activated him. Bleed is struggling to do so, especially if you put him on Viper
melodymur [#4]He was really good because he was in good positions to get kills as Jett thanks to his team's callings. FNS activated him. Bleed is struggling to do so, especially if you put him on Viper
I agree that's what I'm saying, it was the team that was really set him up and let him shine, I just don't think it was really chamber as much (although he was the best chamber)
what is bleed doing putting this man on viper, like honestly? chamber may not be as broken as he was in 2022 but the agent yay is known for still has a lot of impact. why not just put him his best agent and let him frag. yay on viper will never have as much impact as yay on any version of chamber. he may be a one trick, but he is a scary good one trick.
instathot [#6]what is bleed doing putting this man on viper, like honestly? chamber may not be as broken as he was in 2022 but the agent yay is known for still has a lot of impact. why not just put him his best agent and let him frag. yay on viper will never have as much impact as yay on any version of chamber. he may be a one trick, but he is a scary good one trick.
Optic in 2022 built all their gameplans around yay on Chamber. The whole meta was constructed around Chamber. Team comps were built around Chamber. It's a very heavy investment. You had Victor practically inting on Neon and Raze just to set up yay for favourable fights. You also had one of the best IGLs in Valorant history behind him.
I think he could probably do decently on Chamber even on Bleed, but it won't be anywhere near Optic yay, because Bleed will not (and honestly, should not) build their whole structure around that.
I think Viper makes sense on paper for his playstyle. On most maps you just place the same wall and orb every round, and you can (de)activate them easily without having to unequip your gun. Players like Less (who also played some Chamber in 2022) do really well on Viper. He'll just have to become more self-sufficient.
Breloof [#7]Valorant fans discovering that Valorant is a team game and individual skill matters less than team cohesion
yea but if arguably your best aimer isnt playing an agent where that strength can shine its not really helping the team
instathot [#6]what is bleed doing putting this man on viper, like honestly? chamber may not be as broken as he was in 2022 but the agent yay is known for still has a lot of impact. why not just put him his best agent and let him frag. yay on viper will never have as much impact as yay on any version of chamber. he may be a one trick, but he is a scary good one trick.
Do you really think they didn't try him on different agents after paying him so much? It was their knockout match. It's not like he didn't have practice time or a sudden role change. He just didn't perform well enough. also there are maps where chamber is feasible and his op wasn't looking good to begin with
(why did cloud9 not keep him on chamber?)
SENcatpiss [#9]yea but if arguably your best aimer isnt playing an agent where that strength can shine its not really helping the team
aiming doesnt change with agent.
but role does. he cant expect people to walk into his op crosshair while holding an offangle and tping out if he misses
If he is the best aimer why isn't he winning 1v1s? even if he is on viper
Breloof [#8]Optic in 2022 built all their gameplans around yay on Chamber. The whole meta was constructed around Chamber. Team comps were built around Chamber. It's a very heavy investment. You had Victor practically inting on Neon and Raze just to set up yay for favourable fights. You also had one of the best IGLs in Valorant history behind him.
I think he could probably do decently on Chamber even on Bleed, but it won't be anywhere near Optic yay, because Bleed will not (and honestly, should not) build their whole structure around that.
I think Viper makes sense on paper for his playstyle. On most maps you just place the same wall and orb every round, and you can (de)activate them easily without having to unequip your gun. Players like Less (who also played some Chamber in 2022) do really well on Viper. He'll just have to become more self-sufficient.
im gonna disagree with a couple of things. I agree that the reason yay was as amazing as he was in 2022 was because chamber was the definition of the meta and his team built their gameplan around him on that agent. but what i will disgaree with is bleed not building around him. yay is a massive name and the only reason a team would pick him up after he underperformed in 2023 is the hype surrounding him and the fact he is still a very high-quality player.
i dont think that his playstyle fits any other agent other than chamber. like you bring up less as an example of viper players that have also performed well on chamber but less and yay have very different playstyles especially when you compare the teams they play in. with optic yay very often used the op on attack rounds as it helped to hold angles that his team didnt clear and allowed his team to get plants and execute sites a lot more efficiently. compared to less on chamber where he didnt use the op on attack and was more often the lurker. with less on viper his playstyle doesnt really need to change as he can still be the lurker, but with yay on (or any agent besides chamber) his role on attack rounds changes from supporting the execute to becoming the main lurker for the roster.
and i dont think that its that yay needs to be more self-sufficient, its with the purchase of yay, knowing his playstyle, having players like egoist, and requiring him to change his role means that bleed is not utilizing yay to support his strengths and are expecting him to have the same level of impact on agents that dont fit how he plays or how the team should be playing. if bleed put yay on chamber instead of skye against T1 and put egoist on a different role like initiator or controller, the outcome agianst t1 would have been a lot different.
yay is not an entry, he is not a support, he is not a lurker, he is an oper. that playstyle can still be extremely effective in todays game and with chamber receiving buffs in the last few months teams like KRU and T1 have already seen how chamber can bring a similar value to a team comp that the agent brought in 2022. bleed should be looking to set yay up into advantageous positions in which his ability with the op can shine and he can win rounds where his team falls short. yay on viper, neon, or skye cant do that to the same level as yay on chamber.
tldr: bleed should be building the team comps around yay and how he plays. having him on agents that contradict his playstyle and role will mean that yay is not as effective as he can be and will mean that bleed will struggle to get the most out of an extremely talented roster.
instathot [#15]im gonna disagree with a couple of things. I agree that the reason yay was as amazing as he was in 2022 was because chamber was the definition of the meta and his team built their gameplan around him on that agent. but what i will disgaree with is bleed not building around him. yay is a massive name and the only reason a team would pick him up after he underperformed in 2023 is the hype surrounding him and the fact he is still a very high-quality player.
i dont think that his playstyle fits any other agent other than chamber. like you bring up less as an example of viper players that have also performed well on chamber but less and yay have very different playstyles especially when you compare the teams they play in. with optic yay very often used the op on attack rounds as it helped to hold angles that his team didnt clear and allowed his team to get plants and execute sites a lot more efficiently. compared to less on chamber where he didnt use the op on attack and was more often the lurker. with less on viper his playstyle doesnt really need to change as he can still be the lurker, but with yay on (or any agent besides chamber) his role on attack rounds changes from supporting the execute to becoming the main lurker for the roster.
and i dont think that its that yay needs to be more self-sufficient, its with the purchase of yay, knowing his playstyle, having players like egoist, and requiring him to change his role means that bleed is not utilizing yay to support his strengths and are expecting him to have the same level of impact on agents that dont fit how he plays or how the team should be playing. if bleed put yay on chamber instead of skye against T1 and put egoist on a different role like initiator or controller, the outcome agianst t1 would have been a lot different.
yay is not an entry, he is not a support, he is not a lurker, he is an oper. that playstyle can still be extremely effective in todays game and with chamber receiving buffs in the last few months teams like KRU and T1 have already seen how chamber can bring a similar value to a team comp that the agent brought in 2022. bleed should be looking to set yay up into advantageous positions in which his ability with the op can shine and he can win rounds where his team falls short. yay on viper, neon, or skye cant do that to the same level as yay on chamber.
tldr: bleed should be building the team comps around yay and how he plays. having him on agents that contradict his playstyle and role will mean that yay is not as effective as he can be and will mean that bleed will struggle to get the most out of an extremely talented roster.
Yeah you make some good points. It's really hard to fit yay into a coherent role that isn't just "Chamber". I personally think "Oper" isn't really a role, as we see players oping on different roles (mostly Jett - Entry and Chamber - Anchor/Lurk-ish), and I think learning how to Op because it fits your agent on a certain map is easier than learning how to play an entirely different role just to make sure you can be the one Oping. Like 2022 Loud had both Aspas and Less oping depending on the comp.
But yeah after thinking about it a bit more I do agree that Viper probably isn't really the way to go (although I still think it's a better fit than Skye). Yay's biggest strength in 2022 was probably his insane consistency at holding down angles; and Victor and Crashies were used to set him up on strong angles. Chamber is surely by far the best agent at that, and is more than playable on a bunch of different maps, and I agree that Bleed should try to play around that more than they currently do.
I just struggle a bit to imagine that playstyle working on any agents not named Chamber. Also Bleed definitely will have a much less effective support system to enable that compared to Optic. That's why I do think yay needs to be a bit more flexible. Bleed won't be able to make a perma Chamber system work in the current meta.
BoF7ooM [#13]Honestly feel bad for the y0y fans. As a cn00b fan, it felt the same at a point when he lowkey got diffed by kangkang and sayf so much. Feel like t0nz fans also had a similar phase, but hes doing really well. Hope man bounces back, cuz today was genuinely pathetic. No excuses whatsoever.
Nah bro
You can’t compare getting diffed by zmjjkk and sayf to russ and benkai 💀
Breloof [#16]Yeah you make some good points. It's really hard to fit yay into a coherent role that isn't just "Chamber". I personally think "Oper" isn't really a role, as we see players oping on different roles (mostly Jett - Entry and Chamber - Anchor/Lurk-ish), and I think learning how to Op because it fits your agent on a certain map is easier than learning how to play an entirely different role just to make sure you can be the one Oping. Like 2022 Loud had both Aspas and Less oping depending on the comp.
But yeah after thinking about it a bit more I do agree that Viper probably isn't really the way to go (although I still think it's a better fit than Skye). Yay's biggest strength in 2022 was probably his insane consistency at holding down angles; and Victor and Crashies were used to set him up on strong angles. Chamber is surely by far the best agent at that, and is more than playable on a bunch of different maps, and I agree that Bleed should try to play around that more than they currently do.
I just struggle a bit to imagine that playstyle working on any agents not named Chamber. Also Bleed definitely will have a much less effective support system to enable that compared to Optic. That's why I do think yay needs to be a bit more flexible. Bleed won't be able to make a perma Chamber system work in the current meta.
i agree that he needs to be more flexible. it brings up the point of what he could play that offers a similar playstyle. like i think its realistic to play chamber on maps like bind, split, lotus and icebox, then play jett on ascent and breeze. what does he play sunset? does he chamber there too or do they move him to something like astra or viper where he can play more second/third in the execute?
but that contradicts what i said earlier where those agents dont fit his playstyle and they already have players who play those roles. like youre not gonna move egoist off of cypher when cypher is the meta on sunset, and youre not gonna move sscary off controller when he is one of the best in that role.
i love that yay is playing in tier 1 again, but with the team bleed has, i think this roster covers everything that yay is good at. i mean you could put him on a duelist like jett or yoru and have deryeon as the main entry on raze. but i feel like that just removes valuable utility from the team in order for yay yo perform better. but i feel like bleed should be trying to get the most out of yay by playing him on chamber as much as possible.
jeMEGASUS [#11]aiming doesnt change with agent.
but role does. he cant expect people to walk into his op crosshair while holding an offangle and tping out if he misses
If he is the best aimer why isn't he winning 1v1s? even if he is on viper
comfort on the agent. you cant expect a player whos been playing jett and chamber his whole career to suddenly play a passive agent like viper and play well.
instathot [#20]i agree that he needs to be more flexible. it brings up the point of what he could play that offers a similar playstyle. like i think its realistic to play chamber on maps like bind, split, lotus and icebox, then play jett on ascent and breeze. what does he play sunset? does he chamber there too or do they move him to something like astra or viper where he can play more second/third in the execute?
but that contradicts what i said earlier where those agents dont fit his playstyle and they already have players who play those roles. like youre not gonna move egoist off of cypher when cypher is the meta on sunset, and youre not gonna move sscary off controller when he is one of the best in that role.
i love that yay is playing in tier 1 again, but with the team bleed has, i think this roster covers everything that yay is good at. i mean you could put him on a duelist like jett or yoru and have deryeon as the main entry on raze. but i feel like that just removes valuable utility from the team in order for yay yo perform better. but i feel like bleed should be trying to get the most out of yay by playing him on chamber as much as possible.
i read allat, good thread
SENcatpiss [#21]comfort on the agent. you cant expect a player whos been playing jett and chamber his whole career to suddenly play a passive agent like viper and play well.
he had months. he wasn't suddenly playing it
bjergsen [#22]i read allat, good thread
very good thread, I quite enjoyed reading. Very informative and intriguing debate of agent utility vs player effectiveness.
0fcuZ [#24]It's funny how when NRG lineup got released with Fns Victor and Crashies.. people clowning them, saying no yay no win and some say Fns is a fraud without yay having to carry him LMAO 🤣😂
And when everyone were saying just get Yay while talking shit on Ardiis lolz
Asuna_Yuuki [#17]Nah bro
You can’t compare getting diffed by zmjjkk and sayf to russ and benkai 💀
all four of them are equally mid players wym?
Simp4S0m [#28]And when everyone were saying just get Yay while talking shit on Ardiis lolz
Fartdiss was still terrible but tbh I knew from the time of dsg bought yay and seeing him play is just really odd plus a year off from tier 1 Valorant really have some impact to him. He was an elite player back when chamber was a meta but so many things have changed. This isnt csjoe, Valorant get so many changes it's actually scary. I fear my Apac goat jinggg tbh 😿
jeMEGASUS [#23]he had months. he wasn't suddenly playing it
I doubt he had much time to polish his viper but even if that's the case putting a player like him on viper is very wrong, the playstyle he has is very similar to that of cryo and even demon1 (demon1 has never been a hard entry duelist, he has most of the time only played smokes and jett) so something around the lines of kj or brimstone or even omen could have been acceptable because cryo seems to be doing well with those roles but viper is such a passive and hard to understand agent for someone with the playstyle that yay has, even sliggy agrees that it is ridiculous that they pay him the bag only for them to not even build comps around his jett/chamber, if you are gonna make him flex then might as well get who can flex from t2 NA or APAC (like T1 did with rossy)
instathot [#20]i agree that he needs to be more flexible. it brings up the point of what he could play that offers a similar playstyle. like i think its realistic to play chamber on maps like bind, split, lotus and icebox, then play jett on ascent and breeze. what does he play sunset? does he chamber there too or do they move him to something like astra or viper where he can play more second/third in the execute?
but that contradicts what i said earlier where those agents dont fit his playstyle and they already have players who play those roles. like youre not gonna move egoist off of cypher when cypher is the meta on sunset, and youre not gonna move sscary off controller when he is one of the best in that role.
i love that yay is playing in tier 1 again, but with the team bleed has, i think this roster covers everything that yay is good at. i mean you could put him on a duelist like jett or yoru and have deryeon as the main entry on raze. but i feel like that just removes valuable utility from the team in order for yay yo perform better. but i feel like bleed should be trying to get the most out of yay by playing him on chamber as much as possible.
I do not completely agree with one aspect, and that is the emphasis of yay on chamber. Current chamber is far too different from old chamber, yay cannot take half as many risks and aggressive positions, and on attack he will be forced to mainly lurk and stay back for his trips anyways.
I think his neon did not look that bad, and I think, given another go, he could really do well on it. I think at this point, yay needs to move away from what made him the best and find new ways to innovate himself.
Chamber on certain maps, in certain circumstances will feel like home to him, but it cannot be guaranteed and I think he needs to redefine his strengths into something more broad than excellent crosshair placement, calm aim and op. I think he has the ability to be like alfa/suy/less, but its more of a mentality; asking a player like him to accept that his old self is not viable anymore is too harsh to accept.
Also since you bring up playstyles, let me kinda say it again, current chamber does not play like old chamber.
0fcuZ [#30]Fartdiss was still terrible but tbh I knew from the time of dsg bought yay and seeing him play is just really odd plus a year off from tier 1 Valorant really have some impact to him. He was an elite player back when chamber was a meta but so many things have changed. This isnt csjoe, Valorant get so many changes it's actually scary. I fear my Apac goat jinggg tbh 😿
ardiis really wasnt as bad as youre making it out to be. His jett was not as good as expected, but that year no one from NRG except s0m was really on top of their game. Maybe I am just coping because I loved that team, but giving them another year could have made them really good.
jUsT pUt HiM oN cHaMbeR hEs sTiLL ThE beSt
yall are clueless asf, if he was nearly as good as his 2022-self bleed would've put him on chamber, its common sense right? I wonder why they didn't.. oh maybe THEY DID TRY but it just doesn't work out? yall need to understand that this is not your typical ranked games where you decide which comp to use on the spot and this is not a game where you can stay consistent at the same level easily. they have been working their asses off trying things, inventing things that works out the best for them. its not as simple as "oh hes the best chamber 2022 so put him on chamber, ez win" lmfao
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