Guys, seriously, how do you know if the guard isn't selling their spot? How do you know if there aren't any deals underneath? There is no way to know. And I think that's the point that Leo is trying to get across, they shouldn't allow a precedent that a org may be able to sell their slot. Most of you guys don't seen to understand that the deals can happen underneath the table without riot consent.
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Defending Leo Faria
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theogblazen [#3]so many ways this is wrong
i love these responses, no actual arguement, just "ur wrong cause ur wong".
Mortadelo [#4]Letting the players pick an org is not an option that is on the table and that makes sense 100% whether people want to see it or not. Riot picking the org makes a little bit more sense, but I can still see a million reasons why it is not a good idea
could u explain the reasons thats a bad idea, cause i was thinking best case scenario riot promotes their 11th/12th org choice for americas franchising. yes they could like not care ab the guard players at all, but thats the same for bleed and gentlem8s as well, they could choose to rebuild their rosters if they wanted, it just wouldnt be smart to do so.
I have a questions for people who truly believe this point.
Assume they are trying to sell the spot, why not add a clause to the contract that says riot has the ultimate decision to decide if they allow the sale. Guess what they probably do have that clause already in there about having the final say whether they accept acending org.
Second, what if a true free agent team makes it through and acends? While not likely for many reasons it IS very possible. Would the team not have to go out and find an org willing to sign them all? The answer is yes they would have to find an org to sign them.
This decision isn’t about integrity. This decision feels like a nefarious Riot move for motives not given to us. Honestly I believe Guard was is talks to sell their spot to company Riot doesn’t want in the league. Their decision to rob the players of their earned spot is honestly a lose lose situation for all parties. The Guard players should seek legal avenues to sue Riot. They are missing out on possibly millions of dollars.
SirKnightJ [#10]i love these responses, no actual arguement, just "ur wrong cause ur wong".
bro hasn't read any other post on vlr for the last 24 hours. It's all been said. Leo is being lazy, there are plenty of solutions with the roster being F/A, none of which are ideal. He has the arrogance to believe that the health of the tier 2 scene is less important than optics (which are gonna be fucked in the competitive perspective but they're only looking at the short term business). In a few years this will start affecting tier 1 and the esport will slowly die out and Leo will hop over to another game to ruin.
All the guard players are free agents right now. The Guard has no contract with them, meaning they can't sell the spot because they don't own any player contracts to sell
Who the players decide to sign with is entirely up to them with 0 input from the guard as an organization.
Therefore, The Guard isn't selling the slot in any way shape or form here because they can't control who the players accept contracts from
Does that make sense?
Rollon_vegabond [#12]I have a questions for people who truly believe this point.
Assume they are trying to sell the spot, why not add a clause to the contract that says riot has the ultimate decision to decide if they allow the sale. Guess what they probably do have that clause already in there about having the final say whether they accept acending org.Second, what if a true free agent team makes it through and acends? While not likely for many reasons it IS very possible. Would the team not have to go out and find an org willing to sign them all? The answer is yes they would have to find an org to sign them.
This decision isn’t about integrity. This decision feels like a nefarious Riot move for motives not given to us. Honestly I believe Guard was is talks to sell their spot to company Riot doesn’t want in the league. Their decision to rob the players of their earned spot is honestly a lose lose situation for all parties. The Guard players should seek legal avenues to sue Riot. They are missing out on possibly millions of dollars.
The thing is, how does riot know if a org isn't selling out? Imagine that I have an org, make it to champions, and out of nowhere decide to not step up to the slot. But, underneath the table I have an agreement with the players and another org that, they are going to choose for example G2 and I as an org is going to receive an payment underneath. There is no way to know.
And for free agent teams, riot has already disclosed that if a free agent team make it they are free to choose an org.
Here is different because we truly do not know if the org is selling out or no. Guard could possibly, while leaving esports and trying to make a extra money, decide to sell the slot to another org and we do not know.
can someone explain why we care if a team sells their spot??? the guard's roster won NA Ascension. why does it matter whether they compete under the guard or a different org? the only thing that matters is that the roster is the same. i'd understand if riot didnt want an org to drop the players who won Ascension and go into VCT with other people. but correct me if im wrong, but that is not what is happening. i must be missing something because even if a random org came out of nowhere, signed the guard players and took the spot i wouldnt care. riot gets money, the players who won get to play in vct, we get to watch.
tychi [#16]can someone explain why we care if a team sells their spot??? the guard's roster won NA Ascension. why does it matter whether they compete under the guard or a different org? the only thing that matters is that the roster is the same. i'd understand if riot didnt want an org to drop the players who won Ascension and go into VCT with other people. but correct me if im wrong, but that is not what is happening. i must be missing something because even if a random org came out of nowhere, signed the guard players and took the spot i wouldnt care. riot gets money, the players who won get to play in vct, we get to watch.
Yeah, I don't what problems could arrive with league spots being sold out. But I am mostly trying to explain, if you are certain that it is a bad thing that orgs could sell spots, why riot are taking this action. But I truly don't know what could go wrong, maybe integrity of the frachised league?
SAMPV6 [#6]Ah yes let's defend the corporation fucking us over
Not trying to defend riot necessarily, but more about defending Leo. If you have to push the narrative that orgs selling out spots is a bad thing, I think that the actions being taken are the better path. I am more interested in having an discussion about the topic besides riot=bad.
SirKnightJ [#11]could u explain the reasons thats a bad idea, cause i was thinking best case scenario riot promotes their 11th/12th org choice for americas franchising. yes they could like not care ab the guard players at all, but thats the same for bleed and gentlem8s as well, they could choose to rebuild their rosters if they wanted, it just wouldnt be smart to do so.
It’s really not for several reasons. Alright let’s take the scenario that G2 is the 11th org and that’s who Riot goes for.
Riot helps the 5 players and G2 reach an agreement for the slot. Wtf is M80 gonna say? I spent all my fucking money in this, grinded, got second place and now a team that was shit through out the whole year is getting the slot over me? Why would I give it a try next year?
ebulC [#15]The thing is, how does riot know if a org isn't selling out? Imagine that I have an org, make it to champions, and out of nowhere decide to not step up to the slot. But, underneath the table I have an agreement with the players and another org that, they are going to choose for example G2 and I as an org is going to receive an payment underneath. There is no way to know.
And for free agent teams, riot has already disclosed that if a free agent team make it they are free to choose an org.
Here is different because we truly do not know if the org is selling out or no. Guard could possibly, while leaving esports and trying to make a extra money, decide to sell the slot to another org and we do not know.
There is no negative to Guard selling their spot to an org they approve of and they sign all the players. Your making an argument for dissolving equity instead. If this is taken to court Riot will have a good argument to wasting away equity. I’m not sure you understand that Riot can have their cake and eat it too, but they are choosing not too.
As for the free agent org. Your literally acknowledging the fact that free agents will need to find an org after the fact. Even if the Guard is selling their spot it’s not a negative point for Riot because they can deny the sale of their spot.
You can't sell spots. This isn't franchising, orgs don't buy in. Riot hand picked the partnership orgs, and they can get kicked at every time if they don't fulfill their requirements. RRQ originally wanted to stick with their Filipino roster instead of getting top Indo talent, but Riot pressured them into upgrading the roster at the threat of being kicked from VCT.
Rollon_vegabond [#21]There is no negative to Guard selling their spot to an org they approve of and they sign all the players. Your making an argument for dissolving equity instead. If this is taken to court Riot will have a good argument to wasting away equity. I’m not sure you understand that Riot can have their cake and eat it too, but they are choosing not too.
As for the free agent org. Your literally acknowledging the fact that free agents will need to find an org after the fact. Even if the Guard is selling their spot it’s not a negative point for Riot because they can deny the sale of their spot.
The thing is I don't really know if selling out spots is a bad thing. I am just defending that, if you have the narrative that riot have (that selling spots isn't good for franchising), then their actions are correct. Again as I said in other responses, maybe it's about integrity of the league, but I do not know.
ebulC [#19]Not trying to defend riot necessarily, but more about defending Leo. If you have to push the narrative that orgs selling out spots is a bad thing, I think that the actions being taken are the better path. I am more interested in having an discussion about the topic besides riot=bad.
brother Leo=Riot, what are you waffling about.
These are rules they made up, and they are literally picking the option that benefits no one except themselves, as they'd pocket the stipend that would otherwise go to this ascended team.
Riot=bad in this situation, no matter how you look at it.
SaltyMcNulty [#18]Ok then who could they deal with? crab esports? How would they know that Riot is going to approve/give the slot to 'crab esports'? It could be DSG, G2, fkin harambe esports. It could be anybody!
Ok this "anybody esports" still has to get the 5 players who won, on their own contract.. Most of them could have huge buyouts and the winning org can still enforce their contracts and not release the players unless those buyouts are paid. Example : Optic couldnt stay together because yay's buyout was twice as big as some of the others and no org was willing to pay for all 5..
In this scenario, the winning org is literally selling the spot. If you just allow "anybody esports" to pick any players and participate in an open market then again it is unfair to the 5 who won. Again, NO - Riot cannot just null and void the contract between the players and the organization.
this is entirely the guards fault. but the way riot went about this is completely screwing over the players on the guard and creates a lot of questions for the future of T2 val. why can't riot fund the players as a f/a team or let other orgs help fund the players. how is this seen as the guard selling their spot when the guard doesn't make any money from this if all the players are f/as.
at the very least, they should move M80 up to ascension. i don't know why leo says that it would be wrong to move M80 up when riot did qualify teams before when the qualifying team couldn't make it. (liquid replacing fpx due to fpx not being able to attend iceland 2022)
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