G2 gozen, Liquid Brazil, c9 white, and shopify GC all made more money than their male roster counterparts.
thought this was interesting, there could be more
this is my source: https://imgur.com/a/nT5W7iM
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DELUSIONAL_LAKIA_FAN [#3]dominating your region is free money but their salaries are for sure way less than their male counterparts
I'd imagine/hope their salaries would be the same as their male counterparts. Otherwise would be insanely ironic/ a bad look for these orgs who want to support the female scene.
ortuh [#7]I'd imagine/hope their salaries would be the same as their male counterparts. Otherwise would be insanely ironic/ a bad look for these orgs who want to support the female scene.
Nahn its like saying wbna having same salary as nba. Just impossible atm unless you wanna go even more bankrupt. The game changers scene doesnt produce nearly as much as the mens scene. But I wouldnt be surprised if orgs like g2 paid a lot still
ortuh [#7]I'd imagine/hope their salaries would be the same as their male counterparts. Otherwise would be insanely ironic/ a bad look for these orgs who want to support the female scene.
Yeah no that's not how it works. This is not like a two persons doing the same job getting paid different, it's like two athletes doing different jobs getting paid different. Completely different cases, for example, does a female football player get paid the same?
ortuh [#7]I'd imagine/hope their salaries would be the same as their male counterparts. Otherwise would be insanely ironic/ a bad look for these orgs who want to support the female scene.
why would it be ironic?
having a salaried team is helping the scene tremendously.
why would an org overspend on a roster right now when the scene is growing and changing so rapidly.
it just doesnt make sense to artificially increase the salaries just to match tier 1 rosters
Mortadelo [#9]Yeah no that's not how it works. This is not like a two persons doing the same job getting paid different, it's like two athletes doing different jobs getting paid different. Completely different cases, for example, does a female football player get paid the same?
Its also a different situation to that as well. Its not the same as male vs female sports athletes as they are never going to be on the same level due to biological factors, but in esports why shouldnt they be paid the same? The whole point of gamechangers is to provide support to marginalised genders in the gaming community, there aren't any biological differences, so why do all the top teams only have male players? It's because the female players aren't as good as their male counter parts in most cases. This isn't due to biological factors, its due to societal norms and the gaming communities view on women playing games which will change over time. So paying the women less just supports the issue in the first place. Theres a reason why C9 dropped C9W after picking up a whole new roster, if they weren't being paid much at all its just a free good press machine, whats the need in dropping them?
ortuh [#11]Its also a different situation to that as well. Its not the same as male vs female sports athletes as they are never going to be on the same level due to biological factors, but in esports why shouldnt they be paid the same? The whole point of gamechangers is to provide support to marginalised genders in the gaming community, there aren't any biological differences, so why do all the top teams only have male players? It's because the female players aren't as good as their male counter parts in most cases. This isn't due to biological factors, its due to societal norms and the gaming communities view on women playing games which will change over time. So paying the women less just supports the issue in the first place. Theres a reason why C9 dropped C9W after picking up a whole new roster, if they weren't being paid much at all its just a free good press machine, whats the need in dropping them?
maybe because c9 didnt drop them.
they just didnt resign as they wanted to split up
ortuh [#11]Its also a different situation to that as well. Its not the same as male vs female sports athletes as they are never going to be on the same level due to biological factors, but in esports why shouldnt they be paid the same? The whole point of gamechangers is to provide support to marginalised genders in the gaming community, there aren't any biological differences, so why do all the top teams only have male players? It's because the female players aren't as good as their male counter parts in most cases. This isn't due to biological factors, its due to societal norms and the gaming communities view on women playing games which will change over time. So paying the women less just supports the issue in the first place. Theres a reason why C9 dropped C9W after picking up a whole new roster, if they weren't being paid much at all its just a free good press machine, whats the need in dropping them?
Sure, that's game changers purpose, and that's why Riot has set a whole circuit to promote it, a circuit that has been the most watched out of any female circuit in any game. But orgs are business my friend, not ONGs, it's not about what's fair or what's not or who's better and who's not, it's about who makes itself worth for the org. So, if you do not generate the same numbers the male team does, the org can't give away money just because.
Exactly, C9 dropped their roster, good you mention it, we do not know why. But now imagine C9 Blue places 4th next champions, would they have dropped them? So why did they drop the girls and leave the female scene even after so much success? Maybe because it wasn't worth out for them?
capital_d_colon [#12]maybe because c9 didnt drop them.
they just didnt resign as they wanted to split up
I mean we don't know either way but normally when teams split up the org sticks with the core roster of 2/3 players who aren't splitting up. So I am assuming that the org dropped the 5 and that they're splitting up because of that.
Mortadelo [#13]Sure, that's game changers purpose, and that's why Riot has set a whole circuit to promote it, a circuit that has been the most watched out of any female circuit in any game. But orgs are business my friend, not ONGs, it's not about what's fair or what's not or who's better and who's not, it's about who makes itself worth for the org. So, if you do not generate the same numbers the male team does, the org can't give away money just because.
Exactly, C9 dropped their roster, good you mention it, we do not know why. But now imagine C9 Blue places 4th next champions, would they have dropped them? So why did they drop the girls and leave the female scene even after so much success? Maybe because it wasn't worth out for them?
Esports orgs are a business, and they aren't profitable in any way from the esports side of it alone. They're all super inflated because of investors and sponsors, but the players themselves aren't profitable just from competing. The money comes from merch sales and sponsorship deals, not from prize money or tournament results as players keep almost everything they earn from prizes.
So once again, these players are all on the same org, run the same sponsorships, do the same brand deals (in c9s case they do way more than their male counterparts), and prize money doesn't help the org stay profitable, then why shouldn't they be paid the same?
ortuh [#15]Esports orgs are a business, and they aren't profitable in any way from the esports side of it alone. They're all super inflated because of investors and sponsors, but the players themselves aren't profitable just from competing. The money comes from merch sales and sponsorship deals, not from prize money or tournament results as players keep almost everything they earn from prizes.
So once again, these players are all on the same org, run the same sponsorships, do the same brand deals (in c9s case they do way more than their male counterparts), and prize money doesn't help the org stay profitable, then why shouldn't they be paid the same?
Exactly, you hit the nail on the head. Orgs don't get money from prizepools, they get them from sponsors, merchandise sales etc. Who sells more shirts, yay or Bob? Who has more people on stream? Who's tournaments are more watched? That's what sponsors pay.
So yeah again, exact same case than traditional sports, Women don't get paid less because "They are worse and biologically inferior", they get paid less because less people watched them play, as simple as that
Mortadelo [#17]Exactly, you hit the nail on the head. Orgs don't get money from prizepools, they get them from sponsors, merchandise sales etc. Who sells more shirts, yay or Bob? Who has more people on stream? Who's tournaments are more watched? That's what sponsors pay.
So yeah again, exact same case than traditional sports, Women don't get paid less because "They are worse and biologically inferior", they get paid less because less people watched them play, as simple as that
who sells more shirts, vanity or mel? once again another metric we cant measure, but if you are a woman looking to buy an esports shirt, are you going to go for fnatic, or are you going to go for c9 or g2. People don't watch womens football because they are worse, its as simple as that. They will never get as good as the men so thats completely different to esports.
And the streaming statistic, c9 mens stream more on average than c9w and the total hours streamed is much higher, but with the g2 team the female side stream way more than the male side ever since mixwell left. Look at c9 valorants youtube channel, most of the content and brand deals are done by the c9w players. Also a side note and not sure if this is relevant or not but if you've ever been in the chat of one of the female players while they were streaming, its surprising that they even go live at all. Constant sexual harassment and weird fucks calling them cute and begging for facecam and shit, its a different environment so hard to compare metrics.
ortuh [#18]who sells more shirts, vanity or mel? once again another metric we cant measure, but if you are a woman looking to buy an esports shirt, are you going to go for fnatic, or are you going to go for c9 or g2. People don't watch womens football because they are worse, its as simple as that. They will never get as good as the men so thats completely different to esports.
And the streaming statistic, c9 mens stream more on average than c9w and the total hours streamed is much higher, but with the g2 team the female side stream way more than the male side ever since mixwell left. Look at c9 valorants youtube channel, most of the content and brand deals are done by the c9w players. Also a side note and not sure if this is relevant or not but if you've ever been in the chat of one of the female players while they were streaming, its surprising that they even go live at all. Constant sexual harassment and weird fucks calling them cute and begging for facecam and shit, its a different environment so hard to compare metrics.
I'm sorry but the female scene does not generate the same the male one does, for whatever the reason is. That's just how it is, people are more interested therefore brands pay more, it's not deeper than that.
About the chats, I don't usually watch ranked streamings at all so haven't been in many chats, but trust me I can imagine how bad that shit is. Just look at how many transphobes there were with bob during last tournament. But that's a society issue, feel really bad for them in that aspect
Mortadelo [#19]I'm sorry but the female scene does not generate the same the male one does, for whatever the reason is. That's just how it is, people are more interested therefore brands pay more, it's not deeper than that.
About the chats, I don't usually watch ranked streamings at all so haven't been in many chats, but trust me I can imagine how bad that shit is. Just look at how many transphobes there were with bob during last tournament. But that's a society issue, feel really bad for them in that aspect
Thats the thing, the male scene and the female scene both do not generate any money, they both run at a net negative with brand deals (youtube) and sponsors (twitch) being the most profitable areas. Since they both run at a negative competitively speaking and only make a profit through content, whats the point in having esports talent at all and not just hiring streamers? Neither of us really understand the metrics and what makes money so its pretty funny that we are discussing this. My point was that for an org who has a female team, to pay the female team less than the mens team, even though the whole point of having a female team is to try and make esports more equal for all genders, is ironic, which it is. Realistically, none of the players should be paid a salary if we are talking about profit, and the org should drop all the competitive players and pick up streamers like xqc, but the whole point of it is that it's an investment. So why not invest equally in both sides if the point is that theyre going to be equal in the future?
ortuh [#20]Thats the thing, the male scene and the female scene both do not generate any money, they both run at a net negative with brand deals (youtube) and sponsors (twitch) being the most profitable areas. Since they both run at a negative competitively speaking and only make a profit through content, whats the point in having esports talent at all and not just hiring streamers? Neither of us really understand the metrics and what makes money so its pretty funny that we are discussing this. My point was that for an org who has a female team, to pay the female team less than the mens team, even though the whole point of having a female team is to try and make esports more equal for all genders, is ironic, which it is. Realistically, none of the players should be paid a salary if we are talking about profit, and the org should drop all the competitive players and pick up streamers like xqc, but the whole point of it is that it's an investment. So why not invest equally in both sides if the point is that theyre going to be equal in the future?
Idk where you get the idea that no team is profitable but that's straight up not true. Sure, many smaller orgs are just inversions for the future and not worth at all rn. But orgs like C9, TL or G2 make millions a year, and no, it's not just from hiring streamers
Mortadelo [#21]Idk where you get the idea that no team is profitable but that's straight up not true. Sure, many smaller orgs are just inversions for the future and not worth at all rn. But orgs like C9, TL or G2 make millions a year, and no, it's not just from hiring streamers
Yes they might make money, but they aren't profitable in the slightest. In 2020 TSM was the only org that was profitable, and that was due to the FTX partnership, and we all know how good crypto is doing nowadays. What you need to realise is that for every 1 team member that is paid a salary there is probably 1-2 staff members also being paid a salary, the big orgs have their own facilities, and many more operational costs. The idea is that the revenue may be much lower than the costs right now, but the whole idea is that this is a market that is going to develop exponentially.
All player wages are super inflated as none of them bring in the same value as what they are being paid, thats just a fact. I'm not going to discuss the profitability of esports orgs as I don't run an org, or understand everything that goes into it, and neither does anyone, all I wanted to say was that it would be ironic if they weren't paid the same even though they are preaching for equality and supporting women.
ortuh [#23]Yes they might make money, but they aren't profitable in the slightest. In 2020 TSM was the only org that was profitable, and that was due to the FTX partnership, and we all know how good crypto is doing nowadays. What you need to realise is that for every 1 team member that is paid a salary there is probably 1-2 staff members also being paid a salary, the big orgs have their own facilities, and many more operational costs. The idea is that the revenue may be much lower than the costs right now, but the whole idea is that this is a market that is going to develop exponentially.
All player wages are super inflated as none of them bring in the same value as what they are being paid, thats just a fact. I'm not going to discuss the profitability of esports orgs as I don't run an org, or understand everything that goes into it, and neither does anyone, all I wanted to say was that it would be ironic if they weren't paid the same even though they are preaching for equality and supporting women.
Okay well, I'm not gonna discuss the numbers cause I don't know em, but even if that was the case that doesn't change the fact that one makes more money than the other. Would you rather lose 20 bucks a month or 10? If you couldn't afford to lose 30? Would you rather get rid of who makes you lose 20 or who makes you lose 10?
ortuh [#11]Its also a different situation to that as well. Its not the same as male vs female sports athletes as they are never going to be on the same level due to biological factors, but in esports why shouldnt they be paid the same? The whole point of gamechangers is to provide support to marginalised genders in the gaming community, there aren't any biological differences, so why do all the top teams only have male players? It's because the female players aren't as good as their male counter parts in most cases. This isn't due to biological factors, its due to societal norms and the gaming communities view on women playing games which will change over time. So paying the women less just supports the issue in the first place. Theres a reason why C9 dropped C9W after picking up a whole new roster, if they weren't being paid much at all its just a free good press machine, whats the need in dropping them?
you are missing the point. you earn what you bring. the male scene is larger than the female, so male teams make more. the male scene is bigger because men in general enjoy gaming content and women dont.
ortuh [#20]Thats the thing, the male scene and the female scene both do not generate any money, they both run at a net negative with brand deals (youtube) and sponsors (twitch) being the most profitable areas. Since they both run at a negative competitively speaking and only make a profit through content, whats the point in having esports talent at all and not just hiring streamers? Neither of us really understand the metrics and what makes money so its pretty funny that we are discussing this. My point was that for an org who has a female team, to pay the female team less than the mens team, even though the whole point of having a female team is to try and make esports more equal for all genders, is ironic, which it is. Realistically, none of the players should be paid a salary if we are talking about profit, and the org should drop all the competitive players and pick up streamers like xqc, but the whole point of it is that it's an investment. So why not invest equally in both sides if the point is that theyre going to be equal in the future?
you are just wrong. the gaming scene is profitable because of a large audience which is predominantly male. the male scene generates more money and thus male players get paid more in general. orgs are having female teams to invest into a potentially developing scene.
orgs want to make money, gain popularity thats why they are doing anything. its not a charity, they are not government agencies which will want to make equality. and btw here equality has no meaning. the existence of gamechangers is inequality.
ortuh [#23]Yes they might make money, but they aren't profitable in the slightest. In 2020 TSM was the only org that was profitable, and that was due to the FTX partnership, and we all know how good crypto is doing nowadays. What you need to realise is that for every 1 team member that is paid a salary there is probably 1-2 staff members also being paid a salary, the big orgs have their own facilities, and many more operational costs. The idea is that the revenue may be much lower than the costs right now, but the whole idea is that this is a market that is going to develop exponentially.
All player wages are super inflated as none of them bring in the same value as what they are being paid, thats just a fact. I'm not going to discuss the profitability of esports orgs as I don't run an org, or understand everything that goes into it, and neither does anyone, all I wanted to say was that it would be ironic if they weren't paid the same even though they are preaching for equality and supporting women.
https://escharts.com/tournaments/valorant/vct-2022-game-changers-championship
vs
https://escharts.com/tournaments/valorant/valorant-champions-2022
ortuh [#23]Yes they might make money, but they aren't profitable in the slightest. In 2020 TSM was the only org that was profitable, and that was due to the FTX partnership, and we all know how good crypto is doing nowadays. What you need to realise is that for every 1 team member that is paid a salary there is probably 1-2 staff members also being paid a salary, the big orgs have their own facilities, and many more operational costs. The idea is that the revenue may be much lower than the costs right now, but the whole idea is that this is a market that is going to develop exponentially.
All player wages are super inflated as none of them bring in the same value as what they are being paid, thats just a fact. I'm not going to discuss the profitability of esports orgs as I don't run an org, or understand everything that goes into it, and neither does anyone, all I wanted to say was that it would be ironic if they weren't paid the same even though they are preaching for equality and supporting women.
you need help
ortuh [#23]Yes they might make money, but they aren't profitable in the slightest. In 2020 TSM was the only org that was profitable, and that was due to the FTX partnership, and we all know how good crypto is doing nowadays. What you need to realise is that for every 1 team member that is paid a salary there is probably 1-2 staff members also being paid a salary, the big orgs have their own facilities, and many more operational costs. The idea is that the revenue may be much lower than the costs right now, but the whole idea is that this is a market that is going to develop exponentially.
All player wages are super inflated as none of them bring in the same value as what they are being paid, thats just a fact. I'm not going to discuss the profitability of esports orgs as I don't run an org, or understand everything that goes into it, and neither does anyone, all I wanted to say was that it would be ironic if they weren't paid the same even though they are preaching for equality and supporting women.
Shut up you soft cunt, the men generally get paid more cause we are fucking elite you wetwipe
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