Serious talk about trans in Game changers

Do you think its fair for trans woman to be allowed to compete in game changers? no transphobia pls
https://twitter.com/willminder/status/1581900030038142976
3 of the top 4 rated players from NA Game Changers Series III Main Event are trans

edit:
alot of people are saying its for marginalized genders, but from the vct game changers rulebook https://imgur.com/a/lUfmklp
im not saying it isnt for marginalized genders, just that riot themselves change their mind on every announcement

lets stop arguing about semantics and talk about if its fair

Whatever other sports policy says

The competition is kinda unfair but Game Changers is for marginalized genders and not for women only so perfectly ok to have trans people.

enri [#2]

Whatever other sports policy says

some allow it and some have banned it. so not that simple i think

throwaway [#4]

some allow it and some have banned it. so not that simple i think

Im okay with trans but someone male playing as non binary seems awful for others

SnooTangerines [#3]

The competition is kinda unfair but Game Changers is for marginalized genders and not for women only so perfectly ok to have trans people.

the first two articles from summer this year say
"The Valorant Game Changers series is a female only tournament series"
and
"VCT Game Changers is a new program which will supplement the competitive season by creating new opportunities and exposure for women within VALORANT esports."

I thought it was supposed to be a female scene

SnooTangerines [#3]

The competition is kinda unfair but Game Changers is for marginalized genders and not for women only so perfectly ok to have trans people.

I was about to say that it's not only for women, so I don't see the point of this discussion.

There isn't any set rules for entry, CIS men can't enter the scene ofc but other than that anyone that falls under what is marginalized gender can play in GC

enri [#5]

Im okay with trans but someone male playing as non binary seems awful for others

i agree but I feel like a line should be drawn somewhere, instead of everyone scared and tip toeing around the line

throwaway [#6]

the first two articles from summer this year say
"The Valorant Game Changers series is a female only tournament series"
and
"VCT Game Changers is a new program which will supplement the competitive season by creating new opportunities and exposure for women within VALORANT esports."

I thought it was supposed to be a female scene

Read the rules mate.

I mean if they say they are female, I wouldn't say anything and just let them compete

throwaway [#9]

i agree but I feel like a line should be drawn somewhere, instead of everyone scared and tip toeing around the line

Maybe inc in contract and make it strict as if someone found as faking they will have banned or maybe jailed too.
Idk I'm not familiar with this too much but it just suggestion don't take any offence.

SnooTangerines [#10]

Read the rules mate.

the first rule on the vct website says "REQUIREMENTS
Only women teams are allowed to participating on the VCT Game Changers Tournament."

its a tournament for woman

https://imgur.com/a/lUfmklp

from the rule book as well

enri [#12]

Maybe inc in contract and make it strict as if someone found as faking they will have banned or maybe jailed too.
Idk I'm not familiar with this too much but it just suggestion don't take any offence.

this isnt korea, i wish they could be jailed for esports related crimes. I think ID with gender on it would be alright, but you can change that tomorrow if you wanted to

Dybala21 [#11]

I mean if they say they are female, I wouldn't say anything and just let them compete

that is the big issue i feel like, lets say im a radiant guy who cant make it pro but know I can dominate game changers, I can just say im a woman and dominate a league. there should be a more serious line drawn about all female tournaments

throwaway [#13]

the first rule on the vct website says "REQUIREMENTS
Only women teams are allowed to participating on the VCT Game Changers Tournament."

its a tournament for woman

https://imgur.com/a/lUfmklp

from the rule book as well

https://imgur.com/a/uzignxz

It literally says women and other genders in the first paragraph.

danii1 [#7]

I was about to say that it's not only for women, so I don't see the point of this discussion.

the first two articles from summer this year say
"The Valorant Game Changers series is a female only tournament series"
and
"VCT Game Changers is a new program which will supplement the competitive season by creating new opportunities and exposure for women within VALORANT esports."

the first rule on the vct website says "REQUIREMENTS
Only women teams are allowed to participating on the VCT Game Changers Tournament."

https://imgur.com/a/lUfmklp

throwaway [#14]

this isnt korea, i wish they could be jailed for esports related crimes. I think ID with gender on it would be alright, but you can change that tomorrow if you wanted to

I was too harsh.

It is unfair, female only should mean female only

SnooTangerines [#16]

https://imgur.com/a/uzignxz

It literally says women and other genders in the first paragraph.

that is from years ago. recently they released a rule book detailing it more

https://imgur.com/a/lUfmklp

FoechiGG [#19]

It is unfair, female only should mean female only

I think maybe a line should be drawn for trans people, but it should be alot further than just claiming your a woman

throwaway [#20]

that is from years ago. recently they released a rule book detailing it more

https://imgur.com/a/lUfmklp

Trans people are also under the umbrella of "women". They do not allow gays to participate and I think that was clear long ago.

titanwithpp [#8]

There isn't any set rules for entry, CIS men can't enter the scene ofc but other than that anyone that falls under what is marginalized gender can play in GC

no the rule book says otherwise

https://imgur.com/a/lUfmklp

enri [#18]

I was too harsh.

nah i wish that was possible

throwaway [#21]

I think maybe a line should be drawn for trans people, but it should be alot further than just claiming your a woman

Or something like that yeah

throwaway [#23]

no the rule book says otherwise

https://imgur.com/a/lUfmklp

Is it different for NA? They mentioned women specifically but in NA its almost all other included like NB, Trans, CIS women

What kinda loophole is this

SnooTangerines [#22]

Trans people are also under the umbrella of "women". They do not allow gays to participate and I think that was clear long ago.

i agree trans are allowed but I dont like the term marginalized genders about game changers, its a woman and trans woman league and im just asking if you think its fair and where should the line be drawn

throwaway [#17]

the first two articles from summer this year say
"The Valorant Game Changers series is a female only tournament series"
and
"VCT Game Changers is a new program which will supplement the competitive season by creating new opportunities and exposure for women within VALORANT esports."

the first rule on the vct website says "REQUIREMENTS
Only women teams are allowed to participating on the VCT Game Changers Tournament."

https://imgur.com/a/lUfmklp

Yes, but there is also no rule that trans or non-binary people aren't allowed to compete

Well trans men are men so no they wouldn't be allowed to play

throwaway [#27]

i agree trans are allowed but I dont like the term marginalized genders about game changers, its a woman and trans woman league and im just asking if you think its fair and where should the line be drawn

As I said, the competition is unfair but game changers is not a tournament to support the supposed "weaker" female scene. It is rather a tournament to allow these genders other than men to shine.

Also did I miss something? Did a trans man play in gamechangers or something?

ortuh [#29]

Well trans men are men so no they wouldn't be allowed to play

damn Imagine like a transmen go into VCT, that would be gigachad

SnooTangerines [#30]

As I said, the competition is unfair but game changers is not a tournament to support the supposed "weaker" female scene. It is rather a tournament to allow these genders other than men to shine.

Also did I miss something? Did a trans man play in gamechangers or something?

multiple teams have had trans players, and ive just noticied they are 80% of the time the top fraggers, I was just wondering how fair it all is

idk if some country identify "a man transform into woman" as woman. in my country we only have 2 genders. man or woman thats it. we dont accept trans or non-binary but some people who identify themself as non-binary still trying to push narrative and make it becomes "normal" in my country which is triggering a lot people.

in terms of female tournament, there is rule "Women only". i mean how you gonna let non-binary play in "Women only" tournament when they arent even real women?

danii1 [#28]

Yes, but there is also no rule that trans or non-binary people aren't allowed to compete

yes there isnt a rule but it also says its a womans league. its all just alot of grey

its for anyone but males. tbh i feel like game changers shouldn't even exist in sports like these. there is no proven advantage which favors men over women. i understand for physical sports and stuff. for example f1 is gender neutral, all genders compete together.

titanwithpp [#26]

Is it different for NA? They mentioned women specifically but in NA its almost all other included like NB, Trans, CIS women

What kinda loophole is this

i think its just alot of grey, no one is willing to step in and stop other genders from playing

throwaway [#15]

that is the big issue i feel like, lets say im a radiant guy who cant make it pro but know I can dominate game changers, I can just say im a woman and dominate a league. there should be a more serious line drawn about all female tournaments

said the same about an year ago and the thread got deleted

I feel that game changers is for any marginalized genders, rather than just biological women. There is no proven biological advantage/disadvantage between genders in gaming, meaning the only reason for game changers to exist is to create a safe space for said marginalized genders, and to give the opportunity for a community to be built and thrive around it.

raynexo [#35]

its for anyone but males. tbh i feel like game changers shouldn't even exist in sports like these. there is no proven advantage which favors men over women. i understand for physical sports and stuff. for example f1 is gender neutral, all genders compete together.

I think just because there hasnt been enough research done for advantages between male and females in gaming, we cant make an assumption that males are far superior at gaming than females. look around at any fps or moba no woman has become a top player

.

raynexo [#35]

its for anyone but males. tbh i feel like game changers shouldn't even exist in sports like these. there is no proven advantage which favors men over women. i understand for physical sports and stuff. for example f1 is gender neutral, all genders compete together.

apparently its an attempt to provide means and resources for the marginalized communities and not because of the inherent skill gap between males and females in eSports or gaming

OzyMeister [#37]

said the same about an year ago and the thread got deleted

Im not surprised riot doesn't want to deal with it, so ofc vlr admins dont want to deal with it too

hanafuji [#31]

damn Imagine like a transmen go into VCT, that would be gigachad

transphobes wouldnt know what to say lmfao, would be their worst nightmare

throwaway [#39]

I think just because there hasnt been enough research done for advantages between male and females in gaming, we cant make an assumption that males are far superior at gaming than females. look around at any fps or moba no woman has become a top player

I think that this comes more down to playerbase and culture around gaming: gaming is known for being a hostile environment, especially for women. This leads to a much smaller community of women playing, especially at a competitive level, making it much less likely for a top pro to be a woman.

Rubrik_Duck [#38]

I feel that game changers is for any marginalized genders, rather than just biological women. There is no proven biological advantage/disadvantage between genders in gaming, meaning the only reason for game changers to exist is to create a safe space for said marginalized genders, and to give the opportunity for a community to be built and thrive around it.

I agree a community for marginalized genders is a beautiful thing, but I do think men have an inherent advantage in gaming...

throwaway [#45]

I agree a community for marginalized genders is a beautiful thing, but I do think men have an inherent advantage in gaming...

For what biological reason would a man have an advantage when compared to a woman. There is a definite cultural advantage for males, with video games being seen as a "boy's hobby" but I don't think that there is any reason biologically

Rubrik_Duck [#44]

I think that this comes more down to playerbase and culture around gaming: gaming is known for being a hostile environment, especially for women. This leads to a much smaller community of women playing, especially at a competitive level, making it much less likely for a top pro to be a woman.

i agree that is a factor but I still believe there would be a gulf between the genders (eg men have faster reaction time than woman) but it would be nowhere near what it is now tho. i think one day with a big enough playerbase, a top level womans team can be seen a decade or two

Rubrik_Duck [#46]

For what biological reason would a man have an advantage when compared to a woman. There is a definite cultural advantage for males, with video games being seen as a "boy's hobby" but I don't think that there is any reason biologically

i agree men gulf the womans playerbase especially in a competitive games, but there are more factors for example men have faster reaction time than woman

throwaway [#47]

i agree that is a factor but I still believe there would be a gulf between the genders (eg men have faster reaction time than woman) but it would be nowhere near what it is now tho. i think one day with a big enough playerbase, a top level womans team can be seen a decade or two

https://www.google.com/amp/s/hybrid.co.id/amp/post/men-vs-women-esports

It is not unfair.

If your concern is allowing NBs and Trans will allow men to "finesse" the system by just saying "hey im a girl hehe" and winning trophies - that does not happen. The social taboos/stigmas and transphobic comments that these people have to go through on a daily basis will fuck your mental up to the degree that no gamechanger/masters/champions trophy can soothe. It simply does not happen and we know for sure that people like C9 Bob are 1000% trans. We can have this conversation when a single "finesse" instance comes up in Riot. Until then, these conversations and questions will always have a transphobic undertone - questioning their right to identify as men/woman and competing in a competition where there is no physical attribute so no real advantage.

throwaway [#39]

I think just because there hasnt been enough research done for advantages between male and females in gaming, we cant make an assumption that males are far superior at gaming than females. look around at any fps or moba no woman has become a top player

Geguri in overwatch league.

I think they should put strict rules. Cuz there's a drama about a guy pretending to be non binary just so he can play in ge changer

kskm [#50]

It is not unfair.

If your concern is allowing NBs and Trans will allow men to "finesse" the system by just saying "hey im a girl hehe" and winning trophies - that does not happen. The social taboos/stigmas and transphobic comments that these people have to go through on a daily basis will fuck your mental up to the degree that no gamechanger/masters/champions trophy can soothe. It simply does not happen and we know for sure that people like C9 Bob are 1000% trans. We can have this conversation when a single "finesse" instance comes up in Riot. Until then, these conversations and questions will always have a transphobic undertone - questioning their right to identify as men/woman and competing in a competition where there is no physical attribute so no real advantage.

Proof that Bob is trans?
Does he even look like a woman?
Does he have all those documents proving he actually changed his gender?

Rubrik_Duck [#38]

I feel that game changers is for any marginalized genders, rather than just biological women. There is no proven biological advantage/disadvantage between genders in gaming, meaning the only reason for game changers to exist is to create a safe space for said marginalized genders, and to give the opportunity for a community to be built and thrive around it.

The problem with this is:
What is marginalized? Aren't gays marginalized? Aren't black people also marginalized in some countries? Aren't autistic and maybe aspergers marginalized?
The problem is, we can't draw a line. So if you can't draw a line, then better not to have one and allow everyone to compete under the same conditions. Who are we to decide what is marginalized and what not, and base their competitive experience on that?

kralovec [#53]

Proof that Bob is trans?
Does he even look like a woman?
Does he have all those documents proving he actually changed his gender?

These documents aren't public information, and she has no obligation to share them. Bobsta has been going by she/her since before she started playing valorant, which is easily good enough for most people.

Rubrik_Duck [#49]

https://www.google.com/amp/s/hybrid.co.id/amp/post/men-vs-women-esports

good article but proved nothing though, they got one thing right though, no real study to see the difference between men and woman in video games have been conducted. however dozens of studies have proven men have better cognitive skills than woman while woman have better verbal skills than men.

Rubrik_Duck [#55]

These documents aren't public information, and she has no obligation to share them. Bobsta has been going by she/her since before she started playing valorant, which is easily good enough for most people.

Did Riot ask him to reveal these documents to them, to prove he's not fake?
Because, from my information, it's not necessary to provide documents, else how Keenc would be playing? He's not trans 100%.

Also. Show me a photo of Bob. Whether he's really trans or not. If there's no photo, there's no proof.

Rubrik_Duck [#38]

I feel that game changers is for any marginalized genders, rather than just biological women. There is no proven biological advantage/disadvantage between genders in gaming, meaning the only reason for game changers to exist is to create a safe space for said marginalized genders, and to give the opportunity for a community to be built and thrive around it.

is "marginalized genders" thing even exist? i mean female clearly isnt "marginalized gender". female is "real gender" and equal to male. so if GC is mean to "marginalized genders", then female cant compete in GC. funny thing is when you said biological women, is non-biological women exist? correct me if im wrong but isnt gender supposed to be determined by biology?

Jhein [#51]

Geguri in overwatch league.

yeah forgot about her ngl, but she isnt the rule she is the exception

kskm [#50]

It is not unfair.

If your concern is allowing NBs and Trans will allow men to "finesse" the system by just saying "hey im a girl hehe" and winning trophies - that does not happen. The social taboos/stigmas and transphobic comments that these people have to go through on a daily basis will fuck your mental up to the degree that no gamechanger/masters/champions trophy can soothe. It simply does not happen and we know for sure that people like C9 Bob are 1000% trans. We can have this conversation when a single "finesse" instance comes up in Riot. Until then, these conversations and questions will always have a transphobic undertone - questioning their right to identify as men/woman and competing in a competition where there is no physical attribute so no real advantage.

was there literally not a drama about a guy pretending to be non binary just so he can play in game changers really recently

Jhein [#51]

Geguri in overwatch league.

Not a born woman. Search for another example. If there is any.

it's not like having a biological male body gave you advantage like better aim, better mental, better game sense or something in valorant. Having trans on GC is okay for sure.

VCT Game Changers is a new program which will supplement the competitive season by creating new opportunities and exposure for women and other marginalized genders within VALORANT esports. The competitive VALORANT community is both diverse and incredibly global, and our esport should reflect that. Through Game Changers, we hope to build towards a VALORANT Champions Tour that is more inclusive and representative of our community.

Please, please read the original announcement. I won't elaborate further.

https://playvalorant.com/en-us/news/esports/vct-game-changers/

.

PeterGriffin [#58]

is "marginalized genders" thing even exist? i mean female clearly isnt "marginalized gender". female is "real gender" and equal to male. so if GC is mean to "marginalized genders", then female cant compete in GC. funny thing is when you said biological women, is non-biological women exist? correct me if im wrong but isnt gender supposed to be determined by biology?

According to most Valorant fans, gender isn't determined by biology, it's determined by your inner state of soul.
So you can stop arguing with them right there, it's just pointless.

kralovec [#61]

Not a born woman. Search for another example. If there is any.

wait what? i never knew that

Rubrik_Duck [#44]

I think that this comes more down to playerbase and culture around gaming: gaming is known for being a hostile environment, especially for women. This leads to a much smaller community of women playing, especially at a competitive level, making it much less likely for a top pro to be a woman.

Do you seriously believe there is absolutely no biological advantage that men have over women in gaming?
Despite the fact there hasn't ever been a single born girl to make it far (like, really far) in a certain esport?

Or are you just trying to be politically correct?

kralovec [#61]

Not a born woman. Search for another example. If there is any.

I thought she was born woman.

Win98, she was the first female to win overwatch contenders.

TMosura [#63]

VCT Game Changers is a new program which will supplement the competitive season by creating new opportunities and exposure for women and other marginalized genders within VALORANT esports. The competitive VALORANT community is both diverse and incredibly global, and our esport should reflect that. Through Game Changers, we hope to build towards a VALORANT Champions Tour that is more inclusive and representative of our community.

Please, please read the original announcement. I won't elaborate further.

https://playvalorant.com/en-us/news/esports/vct-game-changers/

this article is from feb/21, I have found riot mandated rulebooks or riot websites from this year saying its a woman's only tournament. I don't expect you to elaborate any further because you aren't riot and know no more than us.

solsolid [#62]

it's not like having a biological male body gave you advantage like better aim, better mental, better game sense or something in valorant. Having trans on GC is okay for sure.

having a male mind gives you an advantage, its literally science just because no link has been made between gaming and other studies saying "men have better cognitive abilties" doesn't mean we cant assume due to the results (men being way superior to woman at games) that men do have an advantage.

uganda_forever [#64]

.

gender changers would be too small of a scene and people wouldnt watch

uganda_forever [#64]

.

lmao i agree man

Honestly, no. Even though there self perception of themselves might be different, literally every thing natural in their body corresponds to a male. Quite simply, they have XY chromosomes and imo these competitions were initially created only for females.

Obviously not lol.
What if Tenz said he was a girl now and then tore up the GC scene?

kskm [#50]

It is not unfair.

If your concern is allowing NBs and Trans will allow men to "finesse" the system by just saying "hey im a girl hehe" and winning trophies - that does not happen. The social taboos/stigmas and transphobic comments that these people have to go through on a daily basis will fuck your mental up to the degree that no gamechanger/masters/champions trophy can soothe. It simply does not happen and we know for sure that people like C9 Bob are 1000% trans. We can have this conversation when a single "finesse" instance comes up in Riot. Until then, these conversations and questions will always have a transphobic undertone - questioning their right to identify as men/woman and competing in a competition where there is no physical attribute so no real advantage.

It is unfair

throwaway [#69]

this article is from feb/21, I have found riot mandated rulebooks or riot websites from this year saying its a woman's only tournament. I don't expect you to elaborate any further because you aren't riot and know no more than us.

W

throwaway [#69]

this article is from feb/21, I have found riot mandated rulebooks or riot websites from this year saying its a woman's only tournament. I don't expect you to elaborate any further because you aren't riot and know no more than us.

I'm just saying that there's discrepancies. I should've been a bit composed in my post.

im just wondering. any trans men playing in gc scene?