Yes. But I don't think that's the issue with this team. I've said it a lot on this site already but they don't understand what makes good teams win. They have no mid-late rounding and seem limp when one little thing goes wrong in their set plays or if another team gets a read. These problems can very well be fixed if they bootcamp in Europe.
RickyIndian [#2]Yes. But I don't think that's the issue with this team. I've said it a lot on this site already but they don't understand what makes good teams win. They have no mid-late rounding and seem limp when one little thing goes wrong in their set plays or if another team gets a read. These problems can very well be fixed if they bootcamp in Europe.
they lack adaptation is what you mean? that's a huge gap especially for such experienced players
adaptation usually comes naturally with experience in any sports, but they have practiced and fixated their minds on set plays so much that anything outside the comfort zone brings them to level 0
nice point regarding mid-rounding
ufc [#3]they lack adaptation is what you mean? that's a huge gap especially for such experienced players
adaptation usually comes naturally with experience in any sports, but they have practiced and fixated their minds on set plays so much that anything outside the comfort zone brings them to level 0
nice point regarding mid-rounding
Yeah, their adaptation is very flawed and it becomes more apparent as teams anti-strat them in playoffs. If they redirect some of their attention away from their set executes and to understanding the flow of rounds, I think they can be the best team in the world.
idkbro [#5]playstyle problem + all solid players but only mako is really elite of the elite in their roles, they need a derke level player to take them to the next level and unlock different tactical solutions, seoldam was putting up mad stats in japan maybe they could get him idk
why is seoldam rated so highly despite being inactive since such a long time (for esports)?
RickyIndian [#2]Yes. But I don't think that's the issue with this team. I've said it a lot on this site already but they don't understand what makes good teams win. They have no mid-late rounding and seem limp when one little thing goes wrong in their set plays or if another team gets a read. These problems can very well be fixed if they bootcamp in Europe.
Oh not the “eu bootcamp” excuse. Teams like Zeta and PRX have a much better mid rounding then DRX and they have access to the same pool of teams to practice with. Even Xerxia has better adaptations. This is just s korean thing, they’ve always relied on set plays ever since 1.6.
RickyIndian [#4]Yeah, their adaptation is very flawed and it becomes more apparent as teams anti-strat them in playoffs. If they redirect some of their attention away from their set executes and to understanding the flow of rounds, I think they can be the best team in the world.
Actually w take. Not sure if it'd drx mental or not but when they're set play or strat falls through they look like headless chickens. They lack the adaptability and midrounding of the other top teams.
Victorie [#8]Oh not the “eu bootcamp” excuse. Teams like Zeta and PRX have a much better mid rounding then DRX and they have access to the same pool of teams to practice with. Even Xerxia has better adaptations. This is just s korean thing, they’ve always relied on set plays ever since 1.6.
Xerxia does have some of the best adaptations!
I think they need an x factor strong player instead of rb, I know rb is rated very highly in korean circles but I dont see it internationally. Stax and mako are elite on their roles and zest is my favourite player on the roster. Zest is a good fragger too while igling so he definitely isnt the problem. Buzz is kinda hot and cold but I think he has it in him too. Also their mid rounding as mentioned by the first guy is quite weak, only time ive seen them adapt well was against fnc in champs on haven when they startwd reading fnc's backstabs and countering them well
zeldrols [#9]Actually w take. Not sure if it'd drx mental or not but when they're set play or strat falls through they look like headless chickens. They lack the adaptability and midrounding of the other top teams.
to be fair they look less rigid than before. and zest has talked about wanting to become more flexible, so at least they're aware of it. DRX are a super young team so hopefully they get their shit together before the game dies out or something lol
archetype [#7]because if u watched him play the guy was actually a demon. ZETA in part owe their success at Masters thanks to Seoldam actually.
I didn't understand the ZETA part, if you can elaborate in short
idkbro [#5]playstyle problem + all solid players but only mako is really elite of the elite in their roles, they need a derke level player to take them to the next level and unlock different tactical solutions, seoldam was putting up mad stats in japan maybe they could get him idk
Yeah, they need someone who can just activate and carry the team when they are falling apart. PRX have F0rsaken/Jinggg, OpTic have yay, and FNC have Derke. The best players on DRX are the support players sadly, making it harder to carry the team when they need it.
I don’t think now is a good time for a roster change though. They should make one after Champions if it still isn’t working out.
wizardbot [#11]I think they need an x factor strong player instead of rb, I know rb is rated very highly in korean circles but I dont see it internationally. Stax and mako are elite on their roles and zest is my favourite player on the roster. Zest is a good fragger too while igling so he definitely isnt the problem. Buzz is kinda hot and cold but I think he has it in him too. Also their mid rounding as mentioned by the first guy is quite weak, only time ive seen them adapt well was against fnc in champs on haven when they startwd reading fnc's backstabs and countering them well
drx DONT need an xfactor player
why is d3ffo inconsistent? why is victor inconsistent? why is rb inconsistent? why was buzz inconsistent when he was duelist?
because theyre CONDITIONED to be a supportive duelist, not individual duelists
anyone in rb’s role will suffer BECAUSE anyone who takes rb’s role will do the same things he is supposed to do
whycare [#16]Did you ever wonder that maybe they lack the skill to be champions?
No doubt they are a top team but so is everyone around them.
but which skill? its been too long, now they need to work on specifics
"getting good" is not the way, what exactly do they need to get good at is the question
Victorie [#8]Oh not the “eu bootcamp” excuse. Teams like Zeta and PRX have a much better mid rounding then DRX and they have access to the same pool of teams to practice with. Even Xerxia has better adaptations. This is just s korean thing, they’ve always relied on set plays ever since 1.6.
I think the coaching staff being part of 1.6 probably plays a big part in it. We know they're definitely not mentally focused, so they're likely the ones who help with analysis and strats. Would fit with how Koreans view gaming (it's often down to a science).
in 1.6, Korea had no good scrim partners, so their best teams literally just dry ran executes for hours on end in empty servers. These same players are making up the core coaching staff of top Korean teams. That mentality might still be present.
whycare [#16]Did you ever wonder that maybe they lack the skill to be champions?
No doubt they are a top team but so is everyone around them.
by the way they handled optic on fracture, the skill is there. but they are not multi-dimensional enough, the point about midrounding is very accurate imo, they have by far best set strats and cheese, but they are not top mid round team. luckily they do have some clutch tho
ufc [#15]I didn't understand the ZETA part, if you can elaborate in short
TENNN and SugarZ3ro were taught how to use the Shorty and shotguns by Seoldam. These shotgun plays actually saved ZETA and helped them win a ton of important eco/pistol rounds. One I can remember off the top of my head was ZETA defence against TL on Fracture. They got like 3 people in tower with just the Shorty.
archetype [#20]I think the coaching staff being part of 1.6 probably plays a big part in it. We know they're definitely not mentally focused, so they're likely the ones who help with analysis and strats. Would fit with how Koreans view gaming (it's often down to a science).
in 1.6, Korea had no good scrim partners, so their best teams literally just dry ran executes for hours on end in empty servers. These same players are making up the core coaching staff of top Korean teams. That mentality might still be present.
pretty good insight! I remember doing the same with my old CS teams when we didn't have scrim partners
SeulgiVLR [#18]drx DONT need an xfactor player
why is d3ffo inconsistent? why is victor inconsistent? why is rb inconsistent? why was buzz inconsistent when he was duelist?
because theyre CONDITIONED to be a supportive duelist, not individual duelists
anyone in rb’s role will suffer BECAUSE anyone who takes rb’s role will do the same things he is supposed to do
D3ffo (used to) and victor make way more space for their teams than rb by the eye test. I understand what youre talking about and it is why I was and am the biggest d3ffo advocate for the longest time. But d3ffo and victor both showed they were elite at this role by performing like monsters in important games and getting their teams to masters win unlike rb who just seems to crumble
ufc [#3]they lack adaptation is what you mean? that's a huge gap especially for such experienced players
adaptation usually comes naturally with experience in any sports, but they have practiced and fixated their minds on set plays so much that anything outside the comfort zone brings them to level 0
nice point regarding mid-rounding
good take
archetype [#22]TENNN and SugarZ3ro were taught how to use the Shorty and shotguns by Seoldam. These shotgun plays actually saved ZETA and helped them win a ton of important eco/pistol rounds. One I can remember off the top of my head was ZETA defence against TL on Fracture. They got like 3 people in tower with just the Shorty.
Oh wow! SugarZ3ro's shotgun + smoke game play is my favourite
I have seen similar things executed in DRX VODs too with the spectre and astra smoking
SeulgiVLR [#18]drx DONT need an xfactor player
why is d3ffo inconsistent? why is victor inconsistent? why is rb inconsistent? why was buzz inconsistent when he was duelist?
because theyre CONDITIONED to be a supportive duelist, not individual duelists
anyone in rb’s role will suffer BECAUSE anyone who takes rb’s role will do the same things he is supposed to do
to be fair though DRX either need to work on implementing more Neon or finding a player that can make a lot of impact with less resources. Rb's best agent by far is Neon and he's a rifler more than an OPer for sure. His Jett is kind of underwhelming lately. His movement has always been very good, that's why his Neon is so good and why he diffed Victor's Neon.
ufc [#26]Oh wow! SugarZ3ro's shotgun + smoke game play is my favourite
I have seen similar things executed in DRX VODs too with the spectre and astra smoking
One thing I do like about Asia in Valorant is because they didn't really play CS, they're a lot more open to new gun metas.
wizardbot [#24]D3ffo (used to) and victor make way more space for their teams than rb by the eye test. I understand what youre talking about and it is why I was and am the biggest d3ffo advocate for the longest time. But d3ffo and victor both showed they were elite at this role by performing like monsters in important games and getting their teams to masters win unlike rb who just seems to crumble
d3ffo and victor can still have their takeover moments simply because theyre more flexible than someone like rb, who barely gets the chance to make the insane hero individual plays unlike d3ffo or victor simply due to rb being a very conditioned, supportive duelist
ufc [#23]pretty good insight! I remember doing the same with my old CS teams when we didn't have scrim partners
it really perfects your execs and set strats, helps with synergy too, but I think it's too old of a practice mentality. The teams that did this back in 1.6 were at top tier teams. WeMade Fox consistently beat/went toe to toe with rosters that would form Fnatic and NiP.
But that was almost 20 years ago. Things have changed, and so must the approach to the game.
archetype [#27]to be fair though DRX either need to work on implementing more Neon or finding a player that can make a lot of impact with less resources. Rb's best agent by far is Neon and he's a rifler more than an OPer for sure. His Jett is kind of underwhelming lately. His movement has always been very good, that's why his Neon is so good and why he diffed Victor's Neon.
personally until drx let go of the pure space making idea of a duelist, whoever is on that role will have rough patches
brado [#21]by the way they handled optic on fracture, the skill is there. but they are not multi-dimensional enough, the point about midrounding is very accurate imo, they have by far best set strats and cheese, but they are not top mid round team. luckily they do have some clutch tho
Guild beat optic but does that mean they worthy of being champs? No
Maybe we have to look at drx being just not as good as people rate them to be
SeulgiVLR [#31]personally until drx let go of the pure space making idea of a duelist, whoever is on that role will have rough patches
true af. The duelist role is just "get in there, we'll try and get you your one, but tbh we're just baiting you. good luck!"
Similar to how Gambit used d3ffo.
But to be fair d3ffo still found a lot of impact and was a pretty clutch player sometimes (his ace vs G2 at M3 comes to mind)
Rb isn't really that kind of player. These players that can do so much with so little resources are extremely rare. f0rsakeN, Derke, these are all star players that need resources to pop off. Just goes to show DRX's sticky situation. The talent is there, picking up someone like Meteor is a good choice, but he's already become something of a star player and would break DRX's philosophy imo. Seoldam may be a better choice. Or Foxy9. Or develop beyN. Or just look for an unknown superstar. Korea has the talent.
archetype [#33]true af. The duelist role is just "get in there, we'll try and get you your one, but tbh we're just baiting you. good luck!"
Similar to how Gambit used d3ffo.
But to be fair d3ffo still found a lot of impact and was a pretty clutch player sometimes (his ace vs G2 at M3 comes to mind)Rb isn't really that kind of player. These players that can do so much with so little resources are extremely rare. f0rsakeN, Derke, these are all star players that need resources to pop off. Just goes to show DRX's sticky situation. The talent is there, picking up someone like Meteor is a good choice, but he's already become something of a star player and would break DRX's philosophy imo. Seoldam may be a better choice. Or Foxy9. Or develop beyN. Or just look for an unknown superstar. Korea has the talent.
i think the perfect way to put it is this:
fluidity beats rigidness
why can people like f0rsaken, jinggg, derke succeed? because their teams are simply extremely fluid in their styles, they can easily go for another plan usually whenever something doesnt go their way: meanwhile if rb or buzz fails, things simply fall apart because their checklist is ruined
whycare [#32]Guild beat optic but does that mean they worthy of being champs? No
Maybe we have to look at drx being just not as good as people rate them to be
Guild squeaked 2 close wins out, DRX smashed them on their favorite map. DRX is 94-10 W/L record. 9-7 at intl events. Guild is 19-9 W/L, 2-2 at intl. maybe you should reconsider the comparison. I get it, but it's not accurate. no1 is saying DRX is worthy of being champs though, they have the potential to be, thats all people are recognizing - Guild doesnt have the potential to be champs.
"If I had a nickel for every time DRX went 2-0 in groups, won their round 1 in playoffs in a 2-1 reverse sweep, lost 1-2 to Optic to drop to the lower bracket, and then got knocked out of the tournament by a team they already beat in groups, I'd have two nickels, which isn't a lot but it's fuckin absurd that it happened twice". - Nisham VLR user
archetype [#30]it really perfects your execs and set strats, helps with synergy too, but I think it's too old of a practice mentality. The teams that did this back in 1.6 were at top tier teams. WeMade Fox consistently beat/went toe to toe with rosters that would form Fnatic and NiP.
But that was almost 20 years ago. Things have changed, and so must the approach to the game.
Wow their entire squad (2009-11) has turned into coaches
Bali : NTH Head Coach
Termi : DRX Head Coach
Glow : DRX Coach
Solo : DAMWON Head Coach
Peri : O2S Coach
C310 [#36]"If I had a nickel for every time DRX went 2-0 in groups, won their round 1 in playoffs in a 2-1 reverse sweep, lost 1-2 to Optic to drop to the lower bracket, and then got knocked out of the tournament by a team they already beat in groups, I'd have two nickels, which isn't a lot but it's fuckin absurd that it happened twice". - Nisham VLR user
but yeah they lack confidence and the mentality for a Masters or Champions winner. They need now a psychologist and another analyst for general gameplans, midrounding that would help immensely and last for sure a different player lineup, I think this is the moment where you change one of the players for better ones.
brado [#35]Guild squeaked 2 close wins out, DRX smashed them on their favorite map. DRX is 94-10 W/L record. 9-7 at intl events. Guild is 19-9 W/L, 2-2 at intl. maybe you should reconsider the comparison. I get it, but it's not accurate. no1 is saying DRX is worthy of being champs though, they have the potential to be, thats all people are recognizing - Guild doesnt have the potential to be champs.
Drx got shat on the very next map tho which was their pick.
And i would say optic's favourite map is probably haven.
in my opinion, apart from koldamenta and russ, guild players have a higher skill ceiling than drx players
SeulgiVLR [#34]i think the perfect way to put it is this:
fluidity beats rigidness
why can people like f0rsaken, jinggg, derke succeed? because their teams are simply extremely fluid in their styles, they can easily go for another plan usually whenever something doesnt go their way: meanwhile if rb or buzz fails, things simply fall apart because their checklist is ruined
DRX's strength lies in the fact that because they are such a cohesive unit, if they're playing as they should they don't need to rely on hero plays.
The problem is that once one part fails, the rest have to compensate for it. Sometimes there's just no way to compensate without breaking the style of the team and the fundamentals they were taught. The players are treated more as chess pieces. It makes for beautiful Valorant, because the synergy is there, the intelligence and util is there, but individual brilliance takes a step down in favour of reliable, consistent utility.
I personally love this style of Valorant. It's coordinated, it's like watching a machine work perfectly. Satisfaction in seeing the ingenuity at work.
Other teams prefer are more artistic approach, with bolder brushstrokes of individual brilliance. More human, meaning more likely to make mistakes.
But also more likely for flashes of brilliance that the machine can't replicate.
DRX needs to be a balance of both.
archetype [#42]DRX's strength lies in the fact that because they are such a cohesive unit, if they're playing as they should they don't need to rely on hero plays.
The problem is that once one part fails, the rest have to compensate for it. Sometimes there's just no way to compensate without breaking the style of the team and the fundamentals they were taught. The players are treated more as chess pieces. It makes for beautiful Valorant, because the synergy is there, the intelligence and util is there, but individual brilliance takes a step down in favour of reliable, consistent utility.
I personally love this style of Valorant. It's coordinated, it's like watching a machine work perfectly. Satisfaction in seeing the ingenuity at work.
Other teams prefer are more artistic approach, with bolder brushstrokes of individual brilliance. More human, meaning more likely to make mistakes.
But also more likely for flashes of brilliance that the machine can't replicate.
DRX needs to be a balance of both.
It wouldn't be that bad of an idea to add more layers into their checklist taking into consideration unfavorable situations of Xvs5
I believe they must have already done it, the question is why it is not working
ColdWKey [#40]They gotta work on their mentality because they lose all their confidence after taking one L. Look at FPX, Leviatán and even XSET. They take L's but don’t let it affect them.
It would be very hard culturally for a Korean player to "not give a fuck" about what he is doing as a profession
but yes I agree, not taking stress from your results is so very important to bounce back harder
archetype [#33]true af. The duelist role is just "get in there, we'll try and get you your one, but tbh we're just baiting you. good luck!"
Similar to how Gambit used d3ffo.
But to be fair d3ffo still found a lot of impact and was a pretty clutch player sometimes (his ace vs G2 at M3 comes to mind)Rb isn't really that kind of player. These players that can do so much with so little resources are extremely rare. f0rsakeN, Derke, these are all star players that need resources to pop off. Just goes to show DRX's sticky situation. The talent is there, picking up someone like Meteor is a good choice, but he's already become something of a star player and would break DRX's philosophy imo. Seoldam may be a better choice. Or Foxy9. Or develop beyN. Or just look for an unknown superstar. Korea has the talent.
imo foxy is a good addition, sure he might be "farming" a japanese league, but i think he could take rb's role if he learns neon. his raw mechanics are there. seoldam on the other hand, i don't think he has the drive to compete and the current meta will be rough for him as a jett main, he showed he was capable back then but his playstyle is so engrained towards jett i see him having trouble trying to play other duelists. teams succeeding rn barely play jett and the only must pick jett map is breeze.
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