https://clips.twitch.tv/GiftedTenaciousHorseKevinTurtle-v1grOAGFPBFumQlW
Valorant’s problem isn’t a matter of time — being younger than CS — Valorant’s problem is systemic: the ever expanding flood of utility will make the game fundamentally less cohesive and palatable to watch than the simple mechanical and tactical brilliance of CSGO
schlong [#3]meanwhile in riot land
“yes let’s kill 50% of the pro scene with an outdated league model which only provides benefits to clout orgs by preventing them from experiencing any competition, great idea!”
CS is franchised too tho...
Carthage_Er_Pola [#4]CS is franchised too tho...
Half way franchised, you can still have teams who aren't partnered make it to tier 1 events
Daniveus [#5]not true
It's semi franchised. Most tournaments outside of the majors have partnered teams
Carthage_Er_Pola [#4]CS is franchised too tho...
there are partner teams yes, but the TOs like ESL and blast are so much better compared to braindead riot
Carthage_Er_Pola [#8]It's semi franchised. Most tournaments outside of the majors have partnered teams
ye there are some invited teams (I don't want to see Navi and Faze play qualifiers, they would just stomp everyone there)
joebigpeen [#9]there are partner teams yes, but the TOs like ESL and blast are so much better compared to braindead riot
That's true
Carthage_Er_Pola [#4]CS is franchised too tho...
not rly, it's the ideal way to have competition imo. the best and most popular teams will be there but other teams have the opportunities to appear if they're good enough. i hope riot follows something similar and implements a way to qualify for larger events, maybe through vrls.
Deadpanmitten94 [#10]And that’s just an IEM crowd. Valorant can only hope to be like that one day. Granted, when compared to cs valorant is still a little baby when it comes to lifespan.
IEM and Blast crowds are some of the best crowds. And yeah, Val is 2 years old, whereas cs is 22 years old
I like to watch and follow Valorant esport more currently, but I don't think Valorant will ever be what CSGO is sadly. CSGO's culture and history is just something else. Its esport equivalent of football (soccer for NA people). You just can't beat the passion. And so far CSGO events >> Valorant events in almost every aspect.
brobeans [#19]csgo took a decade to get here. Val still hasn't even had an international crowd event. give it time and hopefully riot doesn't f up (also Val's market over regions is broader which is unique)
tbf esports are so much bigger now then they were 10 years ago, thanks in part to csgo
patuj [#16]I like to watch and follow Valorant esport more currently, but I don't think Valorant will ever be what CSGO is sadly. CSGO's culture and history is just something else. Its esport equivalent of football (soccer for NA people). You just can't beat the passion. And so far CSGO events >> Valorant events in almost every aspect.
great argument by patuj who came from the future.
prxfanboy [#18]??? valorant with no crowd ofc gonna be boring. Try make a tournament in Japan with crowd first then compare? The world is not the west only.
we've seen that crowd bruh they're way too civilized and disciplined for this shit, all they do is bang tubes, we don't need that bro EU got the best crowds and it's not even close
capital_d_colon [#20]tbf esports are so much bigger now then they were 10 years ago, thanks in part to csgo
true, you can't compare it
philion [#23]we've seen that crowd bruh they're way too civilized and disciplined for this shit, all they do is bang tubes, we don't need that bro EU got the best crowds and it's not even close
Fan culture from 22 years old game and 2 years old game. People in japan probably came to watch an esport event for the first time in their entire life and in Japan during covid theres a rule that you can't fucking talk and keep your mask on ( watched a world cup qualification match in japan ). Give it time to develop the crowd culture.
nairolf1337 [#24]CS is peak esports
Valorant is a better game overall and better managed too. In 5 years it'll be the biggest game itw
CSGO is a legendary game but it has had 2 decades to develop a fanbase while Valorant has had 2 years
dexter000111 [#27]Valorant is a better game overall and better managed too. In 5 years it'll be the biggest game itw
CSGO is a legendary game but it has had 2 decades to develop a fanbase while Valorant has had 2 years
Valorant is the better casual game, but in terms of esports it can't come close to CS imo, no matter how big it gets
just my opinion tho
nairolf1337 [#28]Valorant is the better casual game, but in terms of esports it can't come close to CS imo, no matter how big it gets
just my opinion tho
Idk we'll see in a few years
patuj [#16]I like to watch and follow Valorant esport more currently, but I don't think Valorant will ever be what CSGO is sadly. CSGO's culture and history is just something else. Its esport equivalent of football (soccer for NA people). You just can't beat the passion. And so far CSGO events >> Valorant events in almost every aspect.
CSGO's culture and history
I think this is a huge part of why Valorant hasn't really exploded yet as an eSport. No team has yet to achieve anything resembling an era, so you can't really get excited about narratives long term.
dexter000111 [#27]Valorant is a better game overall and better managed too. In 5 years it'll be the biggest game itw
CSGO is a legendary game but it has had 2 decades to develop a fanbase while Valorant has had 2 years
the sheer hurricane of ever new utility will make valorant so much more difficult to come: the problem is system, almost existential
patuj [#16]I like to watch and follow Valorant esport more currently, but I don't think Valorant will ever be what CSGO is sadly. CSGO's culture and history is just something else. Its esport equivalent of football (soccer for NA people). You just can't beat the passion. And so far CSGO events >> Valorant events in almost every aspect.
While your right, but what valorant need is time, crowd, and more events.
Xikong [#34]Bro it was not austria it was antwerp in belgium, scream and nivera( both belgians) and were from cs go but switched to team liquid valorant.
Nivera is a nobody in csgo
prxfanboy [#21]great argument by patuj who came from the future.
Its just my prediction. No other game has reached similar status and spot like CSGO in esport outside of like LoL. So based on that its unlikely that Valorant will. Also looking at next year with franchising leagues and overall lack of international tournament it just feels rough. And for franchising leagues you need strong interest in majority of these regional leagues, but feels like the hype for these events has decreased and the viewership has been going downwards on some regions. Like think of LoL, LEC is big alone, LCS while kind of dying has still been big alone, there's a lot of interest and popularity in LCK (KR) alone. But what regional Valorant league can reach anything even close to that? Maybe NA and Japan and that's kind of it. Don't get me wrong though. I'm not saying Valorant esport is dying and I do believe it has its place and has a lot of potential in Asia especially, but overall I highly doubt it will ever take CSGO's spot as the goat of FPS esports.
patuj [#38]Its just my prediction. No other game has reached similar status and spot like CSGO in esport outside of like LoL. So based on that its unlikely that Valorant will. Also looking at next year with franchising leagues and overall lack of international tournament it just feels rough. And for franchising leagues you need strong interest in majority of these regional leagues, but feels like the hype for these events has decreased and the viewership has been going downwards on some regions. Like think of LoL, LEC is big alone, LCS while kind of dying has still been big alone, there's a lot of interest and popularity in LCK (KR) alone. But what regional Valorant league can reach anything even close to that? Maybe NA and Japan and that's kind of it. Don't get me wrong though. I'm not saying Valorant esport is dying and I do believe it has its place and has a lot of potential in Asia especially, but overall I highly doubt it will ever take CSGO's spot as the goat of FPS esports.
It's because cs go for a long time was the only 5v5 fps with a strong esport scene. The most popular fps game is actually not cs go, it's crossfire ( just google it ), that game's developer just don't give much shit about esport. League has to compete with dota 2 in the same genre and still be the most watched esport of all time. Basically cs go just had no competition, thats why. With valorant, it's a different story.
YouDii [#6]Half way franchised, you can still have teams who aren't partnered make it to tier 1 events
huge thing
prxfanboy [#18]??? valorant with no crowd ofc gonna be boring. Try make a tournament in Japan with crowd first then compare? The world is not the west only.
yea a bunch of tube bangers
brobeans [#19]csgo took a decade to get here. Val still hasn't even had an international crowd event. give it time and hopefully riot doesn't f up (also Val's market over regions is broader which is unique)
copium
YouDii [#15]IEM and Blast crowds are some of the best crowds. And yeah, Val is 2 years old, whereas cs is 22 years old
Val is 2 years old but it literally exists only because of CS influence on tactical fps culture
Val fully copied the concepts of other popular games (CS, R6) and now you're telling me this game is "only 2 years old"
Skyss [#30]CSGO = good to watching their esport
Valorant = good to playing casual this game ( e dater game)e
very good alternative to tinder
prxfanboy [#26]Fan culture from 22 years old game and 2 years old game. People in japan probably came to watch an esport event for the first time in their entire life and in Japan during covid theres a rule that you can't fucking talk and keep your mask on ( watched a world cup qualification match in japan ). Give it time to develop the crowd culture.
Stop talking about years, years don't mean shit.
Asians have always cheered quieter than Europeans, Americans and Brazilians. Fact.
brobeans [#19]csgo took a decade to get here. Val still hasn't even had an international crowd event. give it time and hopefully riot doesn't f up (also Val's market over regions is broader which is unique)
And now Valorant uses all the positive impact in the esport scene that CS brought us
Valorant had such a fast successful start only because of long CS work over 20 years
Olofboost [#45]Val is 2 years old but it literally exists only because of CS influence on tactical fps culture
Val fully copied the concepts of other popular games (CS, R6) and now you're telling me this game is "only 2 years old"
What you are saying is irrelevant.
Carthage_Er_Pola [#8]It's semi franchised. Most tournaments outside of the majors have partnered teams
Depends on tournament
Blasts, Dreamhacks, IEMs have some invites, but there are also regional qualifiers for tier2 teams to make it
And tier2 scene in CS is very developed, there are many pathways from tier2 to tier1, unlike LoL and future Valorant
TheHardStuckImmortal [#49]What you are saying is irrelevant.
It's really not
Users here say Valorant will continue the trend of rapidly growing in fanbase like it did over the debut 2 years of the game
I disagree with that, I think Valorant had a good start (I've written reasons why), but it won't last long, I mean it's already falling off
To be honest, Riot are doing everything for Valorant to bury deeper, 3 events a year, shit franchise 30 teams per world, I don't think I'll even watch 2023 VCT
I find cs super boring. It's allways the same old shit. But thats just me.
The utility in valorant ables players to make crazy plays and highlights thats csgo will never allow players to do.
Cs go has decades of history. I played 1.6 almost 20 years ago ffs. The game is legendary and has fans of all ages.
Val is litelay 2 and a half years later. Just don't compare. Obviosly val will fall short cause its arround for 1/10th of the time or less.
for me, as a game val is way more exciting to watch. not even close.
but hey. to each his own
I've been saying the same thing about how PRX being portrayed as so chaotic while in fact it's just the game made it look so chaotic.
This game is barely observable in viewers perspective with so many utilities throwing around. What PRX did on bind almost similar what Astralis did execution on inferno at csgo.
joellogic [#53]I find cs super boring. It's allways the same old shit. But thats just me.
The utility in valorant ables players to make crazy plays and highlights thats csgo will never allow players to do.Cs go has decades of history. I played 1.6 almost 20 years ago ffs. The game is legendary and has fans of all ages.
Val is litelay 2 and a half years later. Just don't compare. Obviosly val will fall short cause its arround for 1/10th of the time or less.for me, as a game val is way more exciting to watch. not even close.
but hey. to each his own
lol player detected
makimaenjoyer [#56]lol player detected
lol not really. i don't touch the game for a month.
just find it way more entertaining to watch.
CS is fucking boring dude to me dude. without the crowd that has 0 interrest to me.
but like I said to each his own.
dexter000111 [#27]Valorant is a better game overall and better managed too. In 5 years it'll be the biggest game itw
CSGO is a legendary game but it has had 2 decades to develop a fanbase while Valorant has had 2 years
Yeah but riot sucks, they dont want to make a creative mode or give people the opprtunity to make custom servers like in CS.
With the reasoning being iT wOuLd TaKe 5 YeArS aNd Its Not WoRtH iT we BettEr make OuR oWn GamEmOdes.
Then they proceed to never give us even a single good gamemode and we have to wait a year for the most copy paste shit thing Ive ever seen.
CS is solely surving off of its community and they can create so many fun things like hide and seek or custom aim trainer maps and stuff. Valorant will never, it will always be a marketing product. Val has one of the best mechanics and ideas I have ever seen in a game but riot is wasting SO much potential
Just imagine custom maps where u have to do raze challengws double aatchel through close corridors or you have to jump from a spot on the map and land in an other and it gets harder and harder each level
nairolf1337 [#28]Valorant is the better casual game, but in terms of esports it can't come close to CS imo, no matter how big it gets
just my opinion tho
Idk man people enjoy those cool and flashy raze plays for example. Its just a matter of how the meta will be and if its simple enough to understand. U dont have to know what every utility does to understand val. If the meta gets very slow like we used to have in the sage cypher meta it will get boring.
Also valorant casters and especially spectators have to step up their game
Olofboost [#50]Depends on tournament
Blasts, Dreamhacks, IEMs have some invites, but there are also regional qualifiers for tier2 teams to make it
And tier2 scene in CS is very developed, there are many pathways from tier2 to tier1, unlike LoL and future Valorant
every heard of academy teams?
PrTsty [#58]Yeah but riot sucks, they dont want to make a creative mode or give people the opprtunity to make custom servers like in CS.
With the reasoning being iT wOuLd TaKe 5 YeArS aNd Its Not WoRtH iT we BettEr make OuR oWn GamEmOdes.
Then they proceed to never give us even a single good gamemode and we have to wait a year for the most copy paste shit thing Ive ever seen.CS is solely surving off of its community and they can create so many fun things like hide and seek or custom aim trainer maps and stuff. Valorant will never, it will always be a marketing product. Val has one of the best mechanics and ideas I have ever seen in a game but riot is wasting SO much potential
Just imagine custom maps where u have to do raze challengws double aatchel through close corridors or you have to jump from a spot on the map and land in an other and it gets harder and harder each level
Exactly this.
"raze surf server" hell ye
"1v1 arena no abilities" hell ye
"survival map" where you go through a maze avoiding traps like a hidden satchel etc.
"find hidden path" where you try to find a path between the ranges of several kj turrets or something
"floor is lava" with jett/raze abilities
"custom DM" pistol only, operator only, headshot only, instant respawns, you name it
community created maps and modes. It really is what kept CS alive for so long. Now, if you want a break from ranked, all you can do is play a meaningless gamemode or sit in the range. In CS you can spend your "downtime" on surf and other custom servers. I used to spend so many hours in 1v1 arena and surf servers
MetaIrony [#60]every heard of academy teams?
Academy teams are simply breeding grounds to recruit from in the future for t1 teams. That is not what we're talking about. We're talking about the route for an unknown team with 5 players rising to play against t1 teams
PrTsty [#59]Idk man people enjoy those cool and flashy raze plays for example. Its just a matter of how the meta will be and if its simple enough to understand. U dont have to know what every utility does to understand val. If the meta gets very slow like we used to have in the sage cypher meta it will get boring.
Also valorant casters and especially spectators have to step up their game
you don’t have to understand, but you also CANT understand amid some of the chaos
kapteN [#62]Academy teams are simply breeding grounds to recruit from in the future for t1 teams. That is not what we're talking about. We're talking about the route for an unknown team with 5 players rising to play against t1 teams
academy teams only hire known players? are u high? orgs can literally hire 5 unknown players as academy team, t2=academy or am i the one whos high? like logically it makes sense
MetaIrony [#64]academy teams only hire known players? are u high? orgs can literally hire 5 unknown players as academy team, t2=academy or am i the one whos high? like logically it makes sense
Read again cause that is not what's being said.
kapteN [#65]Read again cause that is not what's being said.
"there are many pathways from tier2 to tier1" thats literally academy's purpose, there are also ranked demons in league that got straight to t1
MetaIrony [#66]"there are many pathways from tier2 to tier1" thats literally academy's purpose, there are also ranked demons in league that got straight to t1
academy leagues are not the same thing as a core 5 building chemistry and climbing the ranks to the top
TECHNE [#67]academy leagues are not the same thing as a core 5 building chemistry and climbing the ranks to the top
This. If the pathway to T1 is ONLY through an academy team, then many players that have the skill, drive and talent and actually SHOULD be playing in and/or against T1 teams never will get the chance to. There simply aren't enough teams to promote new groups into academy teams
joellogic [#53]I find cs super boring. It's allways the same old shit. But thats just me.
The utility in valorant ables players to make crazy plays and highlights thats csgo will never allow players to do.Cs go has decades of history. I played 1.6 almost 20 years ago ffs. The game is legendary and has fans of all ages.
Val is litelay 2 and a half years later. Just don't compare. Obviosly val will fall short cause its arround for 1/10th of the time or less.for me, as a game val is way more exciting to watch. not even close.
but hey. to each his own
yeah I agree, I have a thousand hours in cs but never watched the esport, just so boring. maybe just to zoomer and wanna see pretty colours doing crazy shit but csgo as a game I don't think is as good as a esport as people say
Faraday [#69]yeah I agree, I have a thousand hours in cs but never watched the esport, just so boring. maybe just to zoomer and wanna see pretty colours doing crazy shit but csgo as a game I don't think is as good as a esport as people say
i agree man.
and that because utility is the same for everyone.
on valo, you have crazy abillities that alow players to do absolutely insane plays.
Just look at enzo's difuse yesterday with the fade haunt! hahaha When do you see that shit on cs? Melsier was decayed and def!! LOOOL awesome shit man.
kapteN [#61]Exactly this.
"raze surf server" hell ye
"1v1 arena no abilities" hell ye
"survival map" where you go through a maze avoiding traps like a hidden satchel etc.
"find hidden path" where you try to find a path between the ranges of several kj turrets or something
"floor is lava" with jett/raze abilities
"custom DM" pistol only, operator only, headshot only, instant respawns, you name itcommunity created maps and modes. It really is what kept CS alive for so long. Now, if you want a break from ranked, all you can do is play a meaningless gamemode or sit in the range. In CS you can spend your "downtime" on surf and other custom servers. I used to spend so many hours in 1v1 arena and surf servers
amen i love this
Olofboost [#51]It's really not
Users here say Valorant will continue the trend of rapidly growing in fanbase like it did over the debut 2 years of the game
I disagree with that, I think Valorant had a good start (I've written reasons why), but it won't last long, I mean it's already falling off
To be honest, Riot are doing everything for Valorant to bury deeper, 3 events a year, shit franchise 30 teams per world, I don't think I'll even watch 2023 VCT
SPITTIN FACTS
kapteN [#61]Exactly this.
"raze surf server" hell ye
"1v1 arena no abilities" hell ye
"survival map" where you go through a maze avoiding traps like a hidden satchel etc.
"find hidden path" where you try to find a path between the ranges of several kj turrets or something
"floor is lava" with jett/raze abilities
"custom DM" pistol only, operator only, headshot only, instant respawns, you name itcommunity created maps and modes. It really is what kept CS alive for so long. Now, if you want a break from ranked, all you can do is play a meaningless gamemode or sit in the range. In CS you can spend your "downtime" on surf and other custom servers. I used to spend so many hours in 1v1 arena and surf servers
yeah I will literally play escalation and dm for hours and then just get off. The wasted potential is very sad.
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