| Flag: | Germany |
| Registered: | July 4, 2022 |
| Last post: | October 21, 2024 at 6:02 AM |
| Posts: | 1616 |
the claims that xeus' trials (in general, not with a specific team) werent going as well (some claiming he was trolling, but I think thats more the internet over-exaggerating) as people expected came first
ofc could still be the buyout, but might not be the only reason
ye from Riot side theres no difference
However a couple of EMEA regions had t3 leagues that would qualify you into t2 (see the invited teams in https://www.vlr.gg/event/1943/challengers-league-2024-northern-europe-polaris-split-1/closed-qualifier, who won https://www.vlr.gg/event/1917/beacon-2023-open-split-2-finals for example)
so in EMEA even if t2 merges and absolutely flopps there would at least be some sort of existing structure to fall back on
yup has a huge chance to collapse t2 this year
worst thing is Apac doesnt even have a t3 scene to fall back on like EMEA does
its all in for them
yea Acend has close ties to https://x.com/raiseyouredge (bio: "Nr. 1 Poker Training Site, having helped 100k+ people.")
https://www.vlr.gg/team/2577/raise-your-edge Acend was originally tied to that site, but Riot said no so we got the Acend brand instead
Its hard to judge how it'd impact the region
At least from how I see it this push for a single league comes more from a place of (almost) every league being fucked beyond belief.
An easy example is always the prize money. Its already low in emea, but there are a whole lot more leagues except east who have not paid this years split 1. There are some who havent even paid last years.
The combined league would at least have the potential to be "profitable" (in an esports sense - you aint gonna make money) for the orgs involved, since viewers would be way higher.
yea its part of the change that gives a chance for teams to extend their stay if they make it to champs (and also them reducing the amount of slots in tier 1, but dont say that part out loud)
Ye it aint pretty
Ill be watching Apac closely the next 2 years
I think their model is a huge risk right now (lots of downsides of essentially losing t2 in a lot of countries), however it might be the way forward for other regions too
Tweet in text form:
Perspective from a CEO spending $700,000 on our Valorant Team in 2 years to compete in T2:
What would you do if after pouring $700,000 into a dream, you found out it was never built to last?
(if you are an esports fan, player or somehow involved in esports, I appreciate a like and retweet for awareness)
That’s exactly the reality we faced as we sought to compete in Tier 2 Valorant.
When Riot reduced the 2 - year franchise slot to just one year, it felt like a slap in the face.
That’s when we began to reconsider our place in the game. We weren’t alone - others felt it too.
After winning champs in 2021, we were invited to apply for the VCT Franchise. It felt like everything was coming together. We even secured a final 20 spot and flew to Berlin to pitch our plans in front of the decision-makers.
But we didn’t make the cut.
Surprisingly, we weren’t too upset. Why? Well, the competing orgs had a lot more experience, a bigger fanbase, and significantly larger budgets.
Let me be clear: our impression of the Riot staff was excellent.
They were professional, passionate, diligent, and extremely friendly.
But once we descended to T2, everything changed. That’s when the nightmare began. You see, fighting for just one slot across all of Europe isn’t just difficult - it’s ruthless, but potentially extremely rewarding.
We knew we could make it and we came damn close in year one of competing in T2 by finishing #3 in Ascension.
Teams, including ours, poured money, time, and heart into the competition, paying good salaries and making massive sacrifices.
Let’s be honest: T2 Valorant has only existed for two reasons:
Without the franchise system as a goal, would T2 even exist? I don’t think so.
What happened to the T2 scene? Is Riot understaffed? Do they not care? Or are the wrong people in charge? Any of these possibilities would spell disaster for building a sustainable T2 ecosystem. And trust me, it wouldn’t take much to fix, definitely not a lot of money.
We’ll be diving deeper into this mess in our next podcast episode with @KrimsonAer
and @ElevatedSpeaks
, discussing the changes needed for a better T2 ecosystem. Stay tuned.
As for us? Competitive Valorant is a closed chapter for now. The mismanagement of tournaments, broadcasts that don't appeal to the majority, low viewership, prize money delays (even casters waiting for their 2023 payments!), a lack of communication, and the cancellation of Split 3 tournaments. It all got worse.
If we ever return, it’ll either be in a massively profitable situation (finding a low - budget team with a lot of potential) or in a more sustainable ecosystem.
But the harsh reality is, T2 Valorant has been a slap in the face, not just for orgs like ours, but for the players too. They sacrifice their time and lives chasing the dream of going pro, while countless people behind the scenes, coaches, management, editors, designers, work tirelessly for the same goal.
And let’s be real, they aren’t getting rich from it; for most, it’s pure passion. At times, it feels like we are being exploited. Too many people work in this industry for “an apple and an egg” (a German saying .. you get the point).
Yet, for many, working in esports is the dream. That said, I’ve also seen the opposite. People in critical roles being massively overpaid while delivering incompetence that ruins the progress for everyone.
Esports deserves better. Valorant deserves better. Maybe Riot’s focus is on T1. Maybe the higher-ups are unaware of what’s going on. Maybe things will change. But right now, it’s a disaster for orgs.
It's an even worse system for the players. We can pivot to other games or opportunities.
But the pro players? They’re stuck. They’ve dedicated years to mastering this game, and learning another from scratch could take years more.
They’re the ones being hit hardest. I truly feel for the countless unsigned T2 teams and players who deserve to make a living in this space.
Whether you're an org owner, an esports worker, or a player unsure of your next step - join our Discord.
Let’s continue the conversation, reach out if you want to chat, need help, have ideas. Maybe together, we can find a way forward.
You're not alone.
Stay strong, Ben
Holy yap ik. I found the answers interested so thought Id share them here and maybe someone else does too^^
Yesterday Acends CEO, Bencb, has made a sort of "farewell" post, talking about the current state of t2.
https://x.com/bencb789/status/1839249370824261989
I strongly recommend reading the original tweet.
Huge thanks to both him, and their Head of Esports Krimson, for openly talking with us about these issues from their viewpoint.
They also have a Youtube channel "Inside Esports" (https://www.youtube.com/@InsideEsports-n5v), where they will be, for example, discussing tier 2 Valorant in the future.
This post will add some more insights based on answers Bencb gave on Discord, as well as parts from Acends latest video "Why Acend Club is Leaving Valorant".
--------------
"We asked: What are the reasons for staying in valorant tier 2 and [...] we had one or two, but I think we had ten reasons speaking against staying in tier 2 Valorant [...]. Its very disheartening." (Bencb - 2)
spending $700,000 on our Valorant Team in 2 years to compete in T2
When asked if this was a reasonable investment, Bencb responded that in hindsight it was not. "We expected a better T2 system but looking back, I wouldn't pay more than 2k per player anymore.
Since it is 1-year franchise only anyway, no matter how skilled or experienced, I wouldn't even pay 500$ per player per month anymore" (3)
The drop in salaries is something noticeable across all of t2, across all regions, and is bound to continue in the current landscape.
"Orgs are forced to pay min salaries. Imo we overpaird in some cases because we wanted to support the players and have them focused on the competitive scene.
In Riots case, it already forced us this year to decrease tremendously and reject salary increases because it was not possible and justifable with the state of the system." (3)
When Riot reduced the 2 - year franchise slot to just one year, it felt like a slap in the face.
In the podcast, Krimson explains that they began reevaluating their investment in t2 after the changes for the minimum Ascension duration were announced.
Elaborating, Bencb explained that "its pointless winning Ascension and spend[ing] 700k+ to setup all the business structure in Berlin with players, teams, staff, content, facility just to leave after 1 year. Way to risky.
Esports is about sustainibility. It should be 3 years, 2 years is already a stretch and min 2 slots." (3)
This isn't an isolated case with other org owners, such as Ucams CEO Marco Mourão publicly criticizing the lack of security for Ascending orgs. (4)
What happened to the T2 scene? Is Riot understaffed? Do they not care? Or are the wrong people in charge? Any of these possibilities would spell disaster for building a sustainable T2 ecosystem. And trust me, it wouldn’t take much to fix, definitely not a lot of money.
He criticized Riot for "trying to build the franchise model from top to bottom." Specifically, he points out that he "believe[s] some people try to copy franchise because it works in other spots in America. [...] But what they forget, they have a very good T2 and T3 system." (3)
"There are obviously other systemic issues in Tier 2 that we have seen, with various newsposts that are coming out, where it appears that in a number of [...] [cases], offseason tournaments that have been canceled already. [...] There have been no, and there will be no games until February [for Acend]." (Krimson - 2)
Additionally, Bencb also points out that the current format has an additional 2 months of offseason for teams that don't make it to ascension. During this time it is nonviable to start building next year's roster, as teams don't know what player will be signed in t1/FA/RFA. (2)
Another worrying criticism that also gets brought up frequently is Riots unwillingness to talk to the organizations. "Start talking to Orgs. Right now, there is 0 communication." (3)
"I think we have a lot of good ideas, potentially, for fixing tier 2 and I hope that Riot sees the problems organizations are having." (Krimson - 2)
This leaves all the pressure on the underfunded, understaffed, and oftentimes seemingly overwhelmed TOs, to try and figure out how to fix their region while still in the bounds of Riots system.
In a side comment Bencb mentioned a more ideal t2, in his opinion, would be "one emea challenger league. 20 teams, can be 10 direct invites, 10 qualifiyng teams, Only 1 league, much bigger viewership, more competitive, play ins and play offs in nov/dec. Ascension winner crowned in early december."
He also voiced his support for an Open League with more slots for teams.
While not brought up as a reason for their departure, when asked what games Acend would be looking towards in the future, Bencb explained that Acend will "only compete in Games where we dont have restrictions with sponsors as we do have it in LOL, Valorant or other Riot Games [as Acend pivots into better monetization models]."
This once again brings up the concern that Riot's restriction on sponsors makes it even harder for t2 orgs to be sustainable, despite Riot being largely unwilling to support t2 (in both Val and LoL).
(1) https://x.com/bencb789/status/1839249370824261989
(2) "Why Acend Club is Leaving Valorant" https://youtu.be/SXG77L0782Q
(3) Acend Discord Q&A
(4) https://x.com/marco_esports/status/1804278976124191076
welcome to the club
this was just an error the never got fixed
Spin confirmed it a couple of times that he was an import and that it just never got fixed (and more importantly that Polvi can return to emea and play as a non import)
id say try out some of the mods but pretty sure we got no modders left after I quit x.x
wish the main devs would be more open to custom modes cause classic is fun for a while but dang you can do so much more with the engine + roguelite concept
Second (and last) set of games are live^^
Blaze Black 2 Redux is very nice (the plat one too)
Emerald Rogue 2 just released and is fun af if you havent played it already
Radical Red on the harder difficulties is a standard one if you wanna burn weeks of your life
Unbound is cool af too
thats the best Rom Hacks I can think of from the top of my head
nah thats the neat thing about Polaris (and some other t2 regions in emea)
They had a t3 system to qual them into t2 before premier was a thing so they get to keep using it
So its premier AND a t3 league, giving people more options
its great for the region since it actually builds a community^^
(and the beacon guys are just great in general since they do fun stuff like the console cups for example)
well its beacon, but no one knows what beacon is
so I use polaris as referring to the region (even though it is technically incorrect) since its more iconic that "Northern Europe"
Beacon has a couple games with stream today, imma drop links in case anyone wants to watch
UK:
https://www.twitch.tv/valukcommunity EAim 8 - 13 Exo || Exo 6 - 13 TSE <--- "Official" stream
https://www.twitch.tv/ardilya_vlr CUA 13 - 11 Jorblers || CUA ??? - 13 Ailurus eSports (cant remember)
https://www.twitch.tv/infesportsgg INF Esports 13 - 10 Synergize Esports
Sweden:
https://www.twitch.tv/eliteklangg Elite 13 - 10 || 10 - 13 TNS (https://www.vlr.gg/404917/elite-klan-vs-the-nordic-stars-sweden-national-league-2024-division-1-group-stage-r4)
https://www.twitch.tv/svenskaonlineligan Elite vs TNS <-- Official stream
Apeks chants clear
https://x.com/ApeksValorant/status/1834204500841701541
funny af to read through them 10/10
also dont open the M.12 (BOOM BOOM BOOM) link
feel free to check the stats during both splits he played^^
Given that Lime isnt rumored with any team yet he'd be an easy replacement
best duelist in both Spain and Dach this year (might not have the same high end potential, since hes already a more mature player, but the chance that he just flops is pretty much 0)
No. There have been no rumors surrounding him and emea atm.
Not only is he an IGL (gl getting into t1 as a t2 IGL in emea) but CN ascension just ended far too late.
Pretty much no ascension player will be getting signed to t1 unless they were already in talks before and/or during the ascension run.
Since we havent heard anything surrounding him before its highly unlikely that an org would scrap all their plans to sign and build a roster around him.
clearly coach diff
jtay just the goat
Haven comeback was fun, ggs
what a game
absolute great clash of styles on the last maps, both showing great defenses, playing to their comps strength
(unlucky for dsg that you cant use 2 ops in OT)
o7 DSG
Riot will find them a suitable org in t2 to replace the existing org if they deem them unsuitable, but yea its a really rough one for the moral of t2 orgs in general
knowing you need to basically go all in financially for a 1 year spot is rough
also as we learn more of the vetting process its gonna eliminate a lot of orgs in general, that find out that they wont be accepted anyways (hopefully its lenient enough as to avoid this)
https://x.com/marco_esports/status/1804278976124191076
heres ucams CEO talking about it. I distinctly remember a DACH Ceo also talking about it 1+ years ago so the numbers seem in the right ballpark.
"The business expense of complying with all the legal requirements in Germany and minimum league conditions, plus the taxes in Germany, mean that the cost of promotion is NEVER less than a million euros in the first year"
and
"it is true that there are grants from the Riot program that will be paid at the end of the year"
So huge investment, but you will be paid back parts of it eventually (you do need the funds upfront though)
they might not be
Im looking for the thread atm (been over a year so gl trying to find a random org owner talking about how expensive ascending is with twitters shit search x.x), but iirc he did talk about Riot paying part of the investment back eventually
if that is the case then taking a loan wouldnt be unreasonable allowing 2g to make it
well heres a first pointer that it happend at least https://www.vlr.gg/post/3936951/franchising-updates (though the thing I remember was from a dach org owner)
Ok guys look at actual numbers
idk how they are financially, but a bootcamp in emea isnt going to be anywhere near the money you need
If that is your main proof that theyre doing well then its not enough.
An EMEA team needs to (allegedly) invest at minimum a million dollars to set up the company in Germany to meet Riots regulations for example.
So we are talking a considerable hurdle here. We also dont know Riots guidelines (however I would hope they are lenient enough to actually let t2 orgs ascend rather than picking their favorite t2 orgs as a replacement every year)
ye I expect theyll get poached apart, so theyll be playing in spain regardless, but stuff like this is always "fun"
Guys actually got owned so hard.
Wtf is this. Spain already doesnt have a split 3, why tf is there a 3 day deadline to find a TO (aka sell your soul and get scammed for the entire next year because you dont have time to actually negotiate)
Yes and so did Turkey. This was never a permanent thing and was basically to buy Riot time in EMEA while they planned a system.
They were never considered a standalone t1 region and were never planned to have favorable treatment compared to any other t2 league in emea.
Going into 2022, as Riot established infrastructure for the eminent Partnership system (find every league a suitable TO and set up t2 leagues), they were added into the pool just like the other emea regions.
Feel free to check out the 2022 System if you want to see how Riot envisioned CIS to be integrated (or just think of current t2 but add a CIS league)
https://www.vlr.gg/event/876/valorant-regional-league-cis-milestone/playoffs
https://www.vlr.gg/event/885/champions-tour-stage-1-emea-promotion
And how they could enforce the import rules in EMEA? Not 100% sure what you mean here. We already have the rule if thats what the question is about.
Different subregion (but still from EMEA)? -> Counts as Import (-> Played last 2 splits in new subregion -> No longer import)
https://www.vlr.gg/389747/valorant-off-season-2024-events-announced
full list from "official" offseason tourneys
additionally split 3 for most t2 regions will be starting in a couple of weeks
tons more local, console and just more recent tourneys gonna take place though
https://liquipedia.net/valorant/Portal:Tournaments does pretty well to keep track of a lot of stuff that VLR just refuses to show (youll have to use the tabs to sort for tier to see upcoming ones)
Doesnt make sense to merge all of Russia with CN
The majority of people living in russia dont have a playable ping to the CN servers.
I talked about it before but I do think the only realistic (yet very messy) solution would be to split Russia into regions (if you dont give them their own t2 league back).
Yes it'd probably get abused but the country is just too large to be slapped onto existing regions (ping wise).
Dang, Map 2 and 3 just werent a competition anymore; very convincing wins.
GGs to DSG
100%, idk how theyre supposed to stop a crazed JohnOlsen running at them with their current form, but prep is good and the players are pretty disciplined
miracle run is still on
Wait I wasnt paying attention, is he actually?
Dude I want RVNT to win the whole thing now, that'd be class
Spin helps Apeks -> they win
BigTime helps RVNT -> they win
DSG have a huge advantage in firepower, but their strats are (imo) shit (tbf meta does suit braindead aggro playstyle as all 3 other t2 regions have proven so far, but I still think the strats are shit)
RVNT have some really nice defaults and manipulate the map very well for a t2 team
I wouldnt favor RVNT, but it should be incredibly close (and ye am cheering for RVNT 2-1 DSG too)
Offseason it really wasnt clear if they truly did
Benjy, miniboo and boo all looked shaky (tbf boo was pretty good for an IGL, but nowhere near what we saw when the season started)
But ye, my point isnt at all that Apeks will be the next TH^^ Just that on paper pickups != actual roster
The roster would look pretty shit on paper
Our best team of the year (TH) was one that looked horrible on paper too; on paper is not the end of rosters.
And its not like we are looking at Apeks on paper. We already know its a team where the pieces work together. Definitely not anywhere to the level of TH (rn), but they work.
Being skeptical of their chances is fine (offseason teams are looking scary af atm), but you cant treat an existing team like new signings.
(Also we dont even know if they keep this roster or if they end up making changes)
o wait yea youre right actually, the initial rumors of milan joining fnatic got started via trial screenshots (where he was just sitting in them on his main)
not sure what he meant with that they start next week then, probs took a break or something? but ye still got a ton of people left (he said they were still going to do 10 mans) so some misinformation on my part, but result is the same
yup, not the most in t2, but the "rumor" is that they pay more than some t1 orgs
We dont know exactly where fnatic falls in compared to others, but they do have a reputation of attracting players with the teams culture rather than money
Milan said they will start trials next week so not much to share yet
Demon1 currently 7-3 (end of round 4), bro is the goat
Nitro on the other hand is only 3-3, but what can you do against the new kids
Grand Finals is live atm
As title said its console, so youre not gonna get the highest level of gameplay yet, but for those interested to see how things are progressing over there
https://www.twitch.tv/gagod
map 2 currently
They pay decently
I dont have concrete info on what range buyouts they are in though
but we know that DACH buyouts have been a problem (deepmans ridiculous 200k buyout while he was on Wave denying him his opportunity at fnatic for example) and CGN have spend very good money on the roster (reportedly paid buyout for DaviH)
rather speculative for sure, but no one has paid any of CGNs buyouts yet and theyre not known for being one of the orgs thats underpaying their roster
al0rante going to koi confirmed ;3
nah but no clue who they have lined up.
Decent chunk of FA sentinels atm so Im not too worried (Alo and Fizzy the 2 big ones from Dach)
hes on cgn, so unless his contract expires hes gonna be very expensive (no clue about how long his contract is)
yup, me me can read xD was too busy looking at the rest of the roster and rumors to see what other player I want em to pick up
Discord