aah ye lol. Get them mixed up at times lol. 3am isn't helping with no sleep either haha.

VK was playing insane. It's a shame they had to ff the map. This worked for my pickems, but I got them winning LB. Hopefully this anger fuels them to destroy the lower bracket.
It would be suck a mistake if they go out beacuse of something like this. Acend just got so lucky given they were playing like ass on breeze.

Sen lost the map, so what punishment should they have gotten? Could have done a straight match dq, but then that would have happened to VK aswell.

they should just make acend and vk replay the half. Dogshit decision to give acend rounds, when they were playing like ass the whole map.

I can only assume riot didn't punish sen for rounds, as they lost the map.

All just speculation at this point though. They should make a public statement about sen using it though.

I can only assume it's because sen lost the map.

that's so fucking unfortunate. such a shame VKS had to ff the map considering they were performing so well against acend, and had their number on everything.

When you're in a t1 org, the prize pool money isn't your main source of income. well, unless you're a dota pro, then holy shit is it.

for example, s1mple has made around 1.5mil in his career. Do you think he hasn't outearned that in salary?

350k (first place) is split between 6 people (not sure on coaches role), so lets say 60k for each person. Tax on that will most likely bring it down to like 40something. 40k or so is most likely 5 months of their salary. Now they have to win to get that.
The amount people earn from co streaming, they tend to get huge trafic from the drops, and other advertisements. Now, take shroud. 40k viewers. He runs 1 ad every hour. This event is over 50hours of content. Think of the money he made from that, the increase in subs, etc.

To us 40-50k is a lot of money. That's more than I earn in like 4 years (poor uni student). However to him it's a couple months salary.

Also they didn't need a coach, until they saw the limitations it had on them. Then they got rawkus. Also regarding minor region being bad compared, that tend to be the general experience in this. It's why I never try to glorify uk esports. We're dogshit. the scene in the UK is non existant, so I dont bother. I wish we had more funding in the scene, especially considering fnatic is a british org. However wont dont have a large scene over here. Now atm fnatic and liquid can be calssed as partially uk, but that's about it. People still meme despite fnatic going to finals of the first lan, and being at champs. liquid going to the first lan, coming third or whatever they placed.

smaller regions do tend to be worse because they're underdeveloped. However it's not impossible for a team to rise up and be good. Tyloo in cs proved it a few years ago. bNtet and xaccurate I still wish moved over, because they're be fucking amazing to watch play val. Especially if xaccurate played with forsaken. That would be extreamly good to watch.

Just funding into a scene doesn't mean they have to win. In the end talent matters over money.

If he had passion for Zula, he would have stayed.

he swapped games because he couldn't earn a living in the game. Theres nothing wrong with that. It's a smart choice to do, and what pretty much all of NA did with val, as the CS scene had no funding going into it during covid.

That's what I'm trying to say. These people use passion as motivation to be the best. AFter that it's earning a living, whilst trying to be the best. Passion can only get you so far, after that it's talent, and skill.

I'm not saying someone has to stream. Zywoo doesn't stream and he's one of the best players in the world. It's perfectly fine not having to stream. Just there's next to no real downside to streaming yourself playing the game, or playing it off stream. Shahz talking about making more money being in streaming than playing, is the truth. Being a content creator for an org, you get teh salary, and the subs. It's less stressful than competing, and you get to live your life a bit more.

shahz is also 28, so it's a matter of time before he retired. Mwzera is 20 or so. He has a long career ahead of him. Shahz knows he'll never be the best player in the world. He's at the age where he has to accept it. Everyone hits that age where they know they're no longer the best. It's only a few freaks of nature like messi and ronaldo, who still push for the best at their age. It's extraordinary to see them achieve what they're doing at their age.

his youtube has a few videos on siege. So most likely went to zula, to siege, to val. He performed in CL br in 2020, before val.

also a peak example of someone who just went to a specific esport for money. n0ted. He said he only ever played siege professionally for the money. That I find more scummy than someone choosing money in the latter half of their career.

At least bandwagonners might bring viewership to eu. Outside of the spanish and turkish viewership, emea had meh event viewership.

People meme on performances no matter what. IF tenz performs bad, people shit talk. IF munchkin performs bad, people shit talk.

It happens in every single sport. It's because people assume that the best of the best in the world, should be consistent. They set impossible expectations on players, which is stupid.

Nobody hates minor regions because of performance. People shit talk performances, but I highly doubt anyone genuinely hates other regions because of the players. Most hate regions because of fans over the players.

mwzera was a fucking challenger league player in siege bro.
https://play.eslgaming.com/player/13718419/

He didn't make it in siege, so he took his chances at val. These players are coming to val to earn a living and live their dream of playing games for a living.

So far in val, the only people who've openly gone for passion over money, is nitro and floppy. Both are going back to CS, because they prefer it over val. Scream came over to val because he was dogshit the past few years in cs, and would never achieve anything in it again. Love the guy, but he was washed up.

You talk about passion over money. PAssion doesn't feed the family. Passion is great to give you the motivation to grind. However someone thinking of money over passion, on a limited career. Is smart, not dumb.

Also nearly every region has fallen in a game. BR was huge in cs, they fall. They're big in siege atm, they could still fall. EU was big in rocketleague, they fell.

It's not restricted to one region. I will admit more NA players tend to go towards twitch as a means of income, compared to other regions. However it doesn't mean they dont have the passion for the game. It could be them realising that they're tired of competing for nearly 10 years straight. Shahzam has been playing at a competitive level since 2012 or so. 9 years of constantly playing. Not a lot of people make it that long before being burnt out.

give it another 10-15 years, and yes.

You forget most pros grind from the ages of 16-27 or so. They have very little real life experience, just like athletes. Sure a few will succeed in investing. However the most will most likely fall into a day job, be it in esports, or not.

Both Messi and Ronaldo have clothing brands.

I will admit, they both have the passion to be the best, and THE BEST. Just like how s1mple and zywoo on cs have insane hours in the game. As an individual, they're amongst the best of all time.

also you're forgetting how many sponsorships ronaldo or messi have done. Can't talk about they do it for the passion only. That's a big fucking cap if I've ever seen one. Shahzam is far from the level of the best individule player in the world. That would most likely fall under yay or tenz. Both of which constantly grind the game, be it on stream, or off.

Shahz i'll compare to beckham. Beckham wasn't the best, but he has his legacy in football. He built a brand around himself throughout his career. he was known as one of the best captains in the world, and one of the best playmakers in history. He also had a huge social media brand surrounding his life.

I'm all fine for people choosing not to stream. However what difference does it make if you stream yourself grinding the game, or not? As long as you're playing the game, and improving your individual level. You can do whatever you want.

BECAUSE THEY COMPETE IN THIS GAME TO EARN A LIVING.

Why did mwzera stop playing siege and swap?
why did nats leave cs?
why did scream leave cs?
why did every current pro leave the previous game? Because it's not financially stable for them. You need to realise that these people do this for a living.

I get what you're saying. you just need to realise that passion can only get you so far. Why do you think Solo retired. His passion only got him to this point, and he saw it as his time to quit.

It's unfortunate that the smaller regions have to work while playing. However do you think that if they got paid to play, they'd still rely off the money, and that would be their main intention. In the end, everyone is grinding so they can earn a living while playing. PAssion doesn't feed the family. Money does.

Also every member of Sen have a legacy. The first international lan, without losing a map. That in itself is a legacy. Just like Solo had a 107series streak before retiring.

I do agree that it's arrogant that he is thinking of leaving despite his current level of game. I'm also thinking from his viewpoint. He's in his late 20s. his career is on a timeclock atm. The recent major has skyrocketed him to 15k viewers, to 30k. I honestly think he might be thinking of it realistically, than going by passion. Passion can only get you so far. In the end passion doesn't pay bills. It can, but 99% of the time it doesnt.

also ngl, I'd like to see the clip of him talking about it. The context before, or if he was memeing does also matter. IF he was serious, it is arrogant as hell to think about it in the middle of a major. It could also be the grinding constantly for 10 or so years, that takes a toll. SeanGares was good enough to keep competing, but he retired because the constant grind was too much. Same with Pengu in siege. He was burnt out of the game and the grind, so he retired. shahzam has been on the grind for over a decade

I feel players like wardell, who is still young. wont think of that as a reason now. Same with Asuna, or TenZ. They're still young enough where their end is no where in site for them. Shaz is getting up there in age, and it's only a matter of time before he dips off.

Everyone should be thinking of the potential of it though.

Being a pro you have a huge reach to gain new followers/fans. Streaming is a way to cement that into an income after you retire.

Also streaming doesn't mean you're not focusing on being the best. Most players would scrim for 3-5 hours or so, and then the rest of the day they'd play the game. Why would streaming while doing it, harm their career. To me, it's a smart choice to go for. However, it isn't great when they start prioritising the stream, over competing.

imho, if you're a pro player and not trying to think of a failsafe in case your career fails. You're either naive, or overestimating how long you'll be around, and how much money you'll make.

They can invest it. It's the same with professional athletes. They earn huge amounts, and can invest it. how many do end up investing it compared to sitting on it slowly decreasing the amount?

Streaming is another way to invest into the future. Being a pro and streaming is free advertisement. The reach you have is huge at that point. It's also free to stream, as nobody scrims for a whole day. The free time is fine to stream in, which most of the current top teams do.

Well, last time a large org went to india one guy single handedly tainted any change of a large Na org going back there, aswell as killing the cs scene that was slightly developing.

Hecz even said he'd never invest in india again after the forsaken shit, and it's unfortunate.

All I'm trying to say here, is if you're getting paid 30k a month. Someone with talent could be better than you. having better gear, or more money. It doesn't make you a better player. You have a higher chance of improving, but in the end the better player will be better regardless of their equipment.

true. Half the people in the val scene dont even know his role in the ibp scandal.

tbh shroud dipping is the best thing he could ever do. Dude retired early, as he was honestly not that special in CS. He became the msot subscribed streamer, and made a multi million deal to swap for a few months. dude is literally more successful than nearly every pro cs player outside of the game.

Brax couldn't really grind to be the best in cs. Banned from valve, he was handicapped in terms of having a prestigious career.

s0m right now spams streams, because what else should he do? You can only scrim so much throughout the day. Most teams would scrim 3-4 hours, what else do they do in that off time? stream the game? or just play the game anyways and not stream. Both are pretty much the same. At least this way they're building a brand, and practicing the game.

I'm not sure about league. Dont follow it too much, so I can't comment on that. I mainly know cs, val, siege.

OKay, do you think s1mples money will last him forever? Look at any soccer player. They earn millions in their career, and they end up spending it, and have nothing to fall back on.

Building a brand is smart. TenZ has done a fantastic job at it. Pengu on siege did a fantastic job at it. They both did it whilst being the best.

You say only NA players do it? Is scream not building a brand? Are Br players not streming while playing?

mentioning s1mple or zywoo is a mute argument. They're both freaks of nature when it comes to CS. They'll be around for years, and even then. Both have such a huge following from being literally the best players the game has ever seen.

Also look at get right atm. he set the standard for cs for years, and where is he now? He didn't build a brand, and chills with 3k viewers while playing cs.
Tarik doesn't have the legacy get right has, but he gets double, if not triple his viewers, and most likely a more stable income.

you need to realise that building a brand doesn't mean you dont have the competitive edge to be the best. You can only scrim so many hours before it becomes pointless. Just streaming the game being spammed, is still grinding the game. Tenz is the exact example of this. Dude grinds the game, streams here and there. He's one of the most consistant people in the game atm.

We mentioned japan because you were talkign about regions not affording gear.

Every region started off at some point where it wasn't viable to play full time. Even now it's incredibly hard. It's why most people who grind up are around 18 or so, and live at home.
go watch wardells interview where he talked about his relationship with his mom. He spoke about dropping out, and pretty much not having a real realtionship with his mom because of it.
People make sacrifices to try to be the best. It's unfortunate that more orgs aren't going to undeveloped regions. However what reason do that have to do that? There's no sponsors, as there's no viewership.
When mang0 was grinding SSB, he was earning a living off purses, and not an org. That's what it started like when esports was only getting big.

He was popular because he built a brand while grinding. It's one of the biggest mistakes pro players do. They will not stream, just grind the game off stream, and do scrims. Once their career competing is over, they have nothing to fall back on.

Building a brand while grinding to be the best, is the best choice and the main choice a pro player should go.

Right now the best person doing so, is s0m. Asuna started it, other pro players are also doing it. It's a smart safety net.

tbh branding yourself is the best choice to go for. Esports you only have a short career, on average people tend to fall off around 25. you can stay on and try to be the best, but time will get you. Look at Allu, or KennyS. Both used to be insane, and just slowly fell off and off. Allu stuck around far too long, and didn't build a brand for himself streaming. same with KennyS. Didn't steam a lot, so he never had a constant viewership.

Now look at tarik, who streams often. He was the best in cs at one point on NRG, but started making a brand for himself. He has a career streaming, as he most likely wont go pro again.

It's also why a lot of sports stars go into making clothing brands. It's a source on income as they know their time playing is limited.

before sen started winning he was around 600 or so viewers. This was also when tenz was at around the same, while wardell was at the peak.

However he's grown, and his brand has grown. Right now he's one of the highest viewed pro players when it comes to streaming. Just a shame people have forgotten his past, and the shit he got away with.

Also all it takes it to be the best at one point, and you can keep making a living off it.

I also dont think he's the best jett, or sova player. However he did coach, and igl a team to winning the first lan. Even if it was Tenz popping off. Can't take that away from him. Dude is a smart player, and most likely will contain a decent viewership for a few years.
Perfect example of someone who was washed but has a viewership to live off. Hiko back on cs, and jasonR. Both have a decent viewership while streaming, enough to easily make a good living off.

It's like that for the majority of people who aren't signed to a t1 org. Smaller regions are a bit different as esports hasn't taken off there. However that doesn't mean developed regions have an obligation to be top. Someone can play for 15hours a day, and still not be as good as some 15yr old in the slums of china playing on a 7yr old dell xps laptop.

At the end of it, talent and hard work beats out developed environments. It's not as easy to beat them, but it is for sure possible.

People see that as content.
KingGeorge, in rainbow six siege. Dude is garbage at the game, but malds and it becomes content.

Also as much as I dislike shahz, I can't say he isn't good in pugs. Statistically he's good, and has been high radiant since game launch. Even performed at the top level, putting up good results.
We're literally in no place to say if he's bad, or good. He can make a career out of streaming as much as I dislike him. He's getting 10-15k viewers, and as long as you can have a stable 2-3k, you can make a decent living off that. That's enough viewers to get a deal with an org as a content creator, and then you get a salary aswell.

I agree in some regions it's difficult. I'm just saying if someone has the talent and skill, they can beat someone that has the gear. Gear doesn't make the player, skill does.

He'd still have views. Weirdly enough new fans in val actually enjoy him. Idk, I find him cringe and hypocritical from all the shit he did in cs.

Pugs are good enough to make a streaming career. Shroud has the personality of a snail, but was getting 50k before he left for mixer. He never achieved anything huge in CS, other than a DH. However he was a pug god. He had a highlight every match. That's what gets people to play.

Also not many people know his personality from before val. So what they see, is his fake personality that they believe is true.

Better gear can only take you so far though.

If someone is better than you at a game, no amount of gear can make you better. Using gear as an excuse is just stupid.

Sure they can give you an advantage. However at the highest level of competition, it wont make a difference. Unless some dude is playing a crt monitor, I doubt they'd lose because their gear wasn't good enough. If they cna get a stable fps at 60, which pretty much anything can. Then that's enough to grind.

tldr;
Better gear doesn't inherently make you a better player. If someone had talent, they can achieve as much as someone with gear. Talent > gear

inb4 someone brings up VS vs NU. but ye, shahzam will make a career out of streaming. All of his viewers dont know the shit he did in CS.

When I first started playing fps on pc, I was playing siege. Gettign 60fps, had a mouse set at 3200dpi and can't change, and a keyboard that was a membrane. It was dogshit, however it wasn't unplayable. At the time I didn't know what was better, so I could only use that. I still hit the top 10% in the world in terms of rank, due to my own grind.

ofc anything can influence it. However someone saying someone had a better mouse, is a bullshit excuse. Hell, a r6 pro in russia was playing his pro games on a dinning chair. There was a interview with a french player who was sitting on the floor with his monitor on a small table in his dorms. He still qualified for pro league, the russian pro still played in pro league to a high level.

Hardware once able to get a stable 60fps, is fine to play. If you want more, then ofc it's an advantage. however someone with 60hz monitor can still beat someone on a 240.

Gear doesn't mean better.

As long as you can get 144fps, you're gucci. A mouse, any mouse with a half decent sensor can work.

Gear can only get you so far, and once you have a stable fps source, you've reached the point where the difference is minuscule and more about skill

You're saying EU doesn't hate other countries that are developed?. Dude, Eu hates itself. British hate french and german. Nordics argue against eachother. This whole region is a clusterfuck of hating eachother. It has nothing to do with being more developed than another country. Online everyone just shit talks other countries. NA shit talks british teeth, UK shit talks US healthcare, or school shootings. France tries to shit talk UK food, we shit talk their history of surrendering, etc. PEople use what they can to shit talk other countries. It just happens that BRazil is known to other countries for having favelas and high crime rates. So we go for that.

oh for sure. Just the time the games are on is also a factor in viewership, even if it's not a lot. Think masters 1 got like 40k or 50k, and challangers was like 25 or so in sk. I enjoyed watching them, but you're right. The game isn't that popular esports wise.

was just saying the time is always a factor is why viewership isn't the best.

Fnatic lost most of their fanbase when people thought they fell off. It's also like 4am in SK atm.

I'm more surprised the the VK Acend match got as low viewership as it did. I was expecting that to get around the c9 match viewership, given the Br community goes nuts for esports games.

bro, you can literally add a plane facing above, adn it negates that bug. That bug is caused by a plane mesh being placed facing down, instead of a box mesh, or two plane meshes.

Like, literally adding a plane facing upwards, will fix the issue.

The pause was most likely to decide if they penalise the team, or repaly round. It happened in a sea match before. Think it was alter ego, where a sova drone went too high. Match was in a tech for 10-15mins to decide if it had that large of an impact in the round to result in a sanction, or if it was just a play on type of usage.

Jett jumped onto C sitebox spamming crouch. According to rito, it's an exploit they listed on a bug list that they gave to every team.

Tech was most likely to decide to penalise the team, or just replay the round.

It broke momentum, and potentially cost furia the match.

I guess another way you could work on it, by giving maps played a multiplyer.

So each map played, lowers the multiplyer. So 2 maps is a x1 multiplyer, so 13 rounds won = 13 points. the third map being played, could be a .75 multiplyer.

so 10 rounds would equal 7.5points, instead of 10, etc. or even decrease the multiplier even more. Just a way so playing a third map would always lead to less points than only playing 2.

Not slipping riots mind. Slipping the players mind.

Hell, I even do the jump everyday when I play on haven. I do however think riot should remove it from the exploit list. I've done exploits in matches on other games before, as it's normal to do on a day to day basis, and you sometimes forget you can't do it in official matches.

I just dont think there's any ulterior motives by Riot to do the tech pause, like others think. I just think they were discussing what route to take on the jump.

It's a shitty situation tbh. Shouldn't have been a tech pause as like even the sen players said, aswell as countless others. It's a normal part of the game.

I think it's to even it out, for if a team goes 13-0 121-13 13-0 in a bo3. They'd be rated higher than teams who won 2-0 without losing a map.

Not perfect, but I guess it puts everyone on even ground.

I think it's because he doesn't have a calculation to give teams going for 3 maps a negative rating compared to teams who won 2 straight maps.
A team could win 13-0 11-13 13-0, and he'd have 37 rounds won 13 rounds lost. Would still have lost a map, but would statistically be better than liquid, or vikings.

It is a flawed study tbh. I guess It's just a way to even it out, so people getting 2-0 get the advantage of the extra rounds.

I doubt it was decided on the spot. It could have slipped their mind as it's such a common jump, and 100% not an exploit.

I'm mainly going off what I heard said on stream. If it was on the list, then furia could have been DQ'd. I'm assuming it was similar to the cypher cam on breeze, which I think a SEA team used, and it was discovered to be on the exploit list. Team had to forfeit the series they played I believe.

However this jump is far different from that exploit. The jump should honestly be allowed to be used, as it's able to be done by every agent. I also think it's why Sen didn't do the jump, well from my memory while watching I didn't see them do it.

right now everyone can only make assumptions. I personally think it was more of a slip of mind as it's ingrained in pretty much the map since beta. Just surprised riot list it as an exploit to begin with.

I'm assuming it's whether they replay the round or dq the map.

Apparently teams are given a list of "exploits" that are known an banned by riot, before hand. SO i'm assuming it's riot deciding what they should do about it.

The list of exploits, I think it was vansilli in tariks stream who spoke about it.

5/6 CR let me down :(

tbh the fact it's been in beta since doesn't change anything. Before an event teams are given a list of exploits that aren't allowed to be used. The cypher cam on breeze is one of them.
This was confirmed on Tariks stream where Vansilli - caster for val. Confirmed it.

Like, it's a shitty situation. However at least they were made to do a tech pause, than get DQ for knowingly using something that was explicitly told not to.

I'm assuming that's what took so long. either decideing to let them play on, or DQ. Because if they had a list of exploits (riot list. the jump is by far not an exploit), and still did it. That's a more serious issue as it's making a judgement based on the intention behind ignoring the exploit list, or just forgetting.

I think it's mainly down to people underestimating them after their mediocre domestic tournements in the past couple months. The random rough comps they played, had people assuming they'd struggle.

fnatic do still have a lot to work out, given they nearly lost two maps from a comeback from 11-7, which they lost 11-13. then the fracture map at 12-6 which they got taken to overtime.
~
them being a lan team, or c9 having lan jitters. Dont think it was either. There were times both teams looked rough, and times where both teams looked great.

Unless his performance dips to a bad level, I'm sure other teams in eu would pick him up. Even if it's not a top tier team, he can still make a good career in cs if he leaves liquid.

I was just saying that the viewership of the major isn't the reason he's staying, or not switching. His teams qualifications to events and his form still being good enough to compete, is why he wont switch.