I dont think CS plays are same at all, otherwise people would have found counters and be the best already, To me, CS and Valorant macros are pretty much the same, most pros confirmed that. Only the micros makes it different such as Jett dash, KJ turret, etc. CS is also imo more unpredictable and more punishing since you can flank a lot more often (Valorant way less with eg. cypher trips) and you cant bail yourself out (Jett dashes, Sage revives). I prefer CS battles because when opponents kill me, I feel they are better than me, but in Valorant, I feel more times its a lucky play and you cant save yourself from bad teammates by having your own smokes, flashes, mollies like in CS.

For Chinese viewership, I frequently check Douyu and Huya, the Chinese equivalent of Twitch. Surprisingly, both CS and Valorant viewership is about the same. Dank1ng is a very popular CS streamer getting around 3-4 million heat (theres no viewer stats). I checked in both the Asia RMRs and Chinese Kickoff, and the RMR had a million higher heat. So, even though Valorant is getting popular, they have different communities, so the numbers are still high for people who enjoy CS.

With the 800k viewership, that is pretty impressive. However, since it was Loud vs SEN, it was pretty much an ORG clout match, so numbers may be a bit inflated for other matches.

CS esports will probably never die. People been saying that since 1999, but guess what, it still hasnt died. EU may be the dominant region right now, but other regions are coming back slowly again, NA orgs are coming back and talent is growing to recover the original tier2 NA pros that went to Valorant. KRU just entered CS with their Argentinian roster. Asia scene is growing too, the Mongolz a Mongolian team can challenge tier1 teams and a Chinese team Lynn Vision made the major. The Chinese scene have many you g talent but just needs to find a good leadership and their scene will be thriving. So for me, I enjoy watching CS more because of the underdog story for NA to beat EU teams, I find that much more interesting. Especially when teams have a big era like 2019 Liquid before, it keeps me in tune to see which tram will spark a light again and change the scene again.

You literally do not get the point I made all over this thread. Its not ideal to maintain two esports at a very high level, thats why Riot is degrading Valorant to cut cost, but a better solution is to bring in 3rd party TOs to manage some events

Your goat DanK1ng will save it

Wtf is this take, if you care about your esports scene you would allow 3rd party TOs to help your esports and not being so greedy

3 doesnt exist in Valves vocabulary

Pay few teams or manage hundreds of orgs and games, which is more expensive?

Obo, I see you havent been in touch with CS in years. Jba, Swisher, Reck are just a few whose making a name for themselves. Like I said before, since Valorant took all the tier2 NA pros, it takes time to recover that. People been saying NA is dead for years, well it never died even though its been on its very lows during Covid and starting to recover with new orgs coming in or returning.

Im not so sure, I think in the beginning they really wanted to beat CS and showcase everything in high value until they realize managing Valorant was too expensive to maintain both League and Valorant at the same time. They then start cutting the costs by having less tournaments and creating franchising, meaning they want to cutback in everything. Of course, the solution would be to bring in external TOs, but Riot is too greedy for that

You act like upsets dont happen, happens in Valorant and it happens in CS as well. Itwas a very close match with coL being up and OGhad to comeback. Also the format is single elimination, you cant take the result that seriously

Its all subjective but I like both esports too, just hate how Riot is handling Valorant atm and dont see a bright future for it. Just look at League and see their production, they clearly have a favorite child and purposely are trying to trash Valorant

Get community map designers like in CS, with Valve win win since devs barely do any work and map designers get paid. Ofc Riot is too braindead for that

Clearly it’s obvious you dont follow any CS by just making shit up, if you click a single teams profile on HLTV, you see plenty of young players

Jetlagged from flying straight to Europe from Mexico after just qualifying for the major a day before and playing in 24hours. Also this match did not mean much to them as they can use the extra days as bootcamp for the major. They may not be in their best form, but they still are top 10

Bait used to be believable

For now, what about long term? NA/Asia can come back, they just need a spark again, just like what happened in the beginning of CSGO. Theres already sign of that with the Mongolz and coL still doing decent in tier1 with talents slowly building up again when Valorant yoinked all the tier2 NA talent

I think Valorant wont ever get remotely close to CS if they keep doing franchising. In 2025, Valve is making all TOs go completely open circuit, even though most tournaments already have some open qualifiers for spots. Even A tier tournaments are abundant for tier 2. Is Valorant esports set up for failure?

CS: https://liquipedia.net/counterstrike/S-Tier_Tournaments

Val: https://liquipedia.net/valorant/S-Tier_Tournaments

He was ethnically Italian too lol

https://www.hltv.org/forums/threads/2693509/the-kng-fns-incident

For you new frogs out there, CS drama was just different back then

Tyloo walked so Lynn Vision can run

https://www.hltv.org/galleries?player=10263#
Just found these very interesting, even spotted Alecks in one of the pictures lmao

Not a CS major, but I thought these entrances were pretty sick from recent tournaments.

Blast Fall Final coL vs Faze:
https://www.youtube.com/live/5eUzn5_OMb8?si=85DGIkO9I5DMlG10&t=20437

IEM Katowice 2024 Spirit vs Faze:
https://www.youtube.com/live/P5_0S0ILUjg?si=8OSaRfjTjksrCqRs&t=5787

IEM Cologne 2023 G2 vs ENCE:
https://www.youtube.com/live/pc-9WCVKdnw?si=EVA-IvnJTAehtlIW&t=4882

CS is just the better game in EU

Valorant nerds in the mud rn HAHAHAHAHA

overexaggerated

Right it should be this way for all tournaments, especially Blast. Thankfully, Valve is forcing all TOs to be open circuit in 2025

Ok makes sense, you didnt specify NA so I thought you meant the tier2 scene in general. But even in NA currently, tier 2 players with orgs make decent close to 6 figures.

Right before covid, tier 2 NA players were doing pretty well financially. It wasn’t only money but making in the top scene that made handle of NA pros switch. A lot were stuck in tier 2 or below in CS and wasn’t good enough to make it to tier1.

Actually in tier 2 CS, pros made relatively high incomes. Styko a tier 2 pro made low/mid 6 figures, and that major sticker money really helps.

https://youtu.be/G0uydiBuLVk?si=5O9j_x4ZqHWgGTs7

Ok, they are slightly lower than a major, but its pretty close. Both katowice and Cologne were both majors themselves back then

No, Katowice and Cologne are basically major equivalent in CS, except it not being technically a major. In terms on a tier list, the S+ tier would be the Major, IEM (before known as ESL One) Katowice, and Cologne. ESL One NY was a S tier event IMO, still pretty big event, just not as prestigious.

Who?
Gonna get donked 🔨

https://youtu.be/nbujO-zBs40?si=qT1fVhj3ZBLTxkkr

Fr how sick is this?
https://youtu.be/MT1F1t4KGHg?si=HQP3bJqLkLI3WAIP

Play CS for a week. Improved aim. Thank me later.

Aware
https://twitter.com/CounterStrike/status/1755204259400778076

Yes its a repost i think, assuming the original is from a russian media source. This is where he was 12 and his first LAN from what Ive heard

Hes been playing CS since out of the womb

https://youtu.be/9JcP1LSR75I?si=zE-fxHow2JD60IBG

What don't you like about CS2? (Personally, not things you hear on twitter)
What don't you like about Valorant maps?

Unfortunately, I think once an esport scene is developed, they will move towards international teams and national teams die. Ex. LoL only Korean/Chinese teams are national since they are the dominant scene, but the rest are international (NA/EU). CS, it applies the same too, Danes and Russians are national, but the rest tends to be international in tier 1.

I mean i don't know how it is bias, franchising is known to kill esports like Overwatch. Tier 2 is still segregated from Tier 1, if they want to fix this simple issue, they can just go back to open circuit like in 2021

maybe you are right, but ESL/Blast do know how to get views.

I disagree, people clearly want to see more events. Just bring in a different TO such as ESL or Blast for other events would bring in so much hype.

CSGO's release was 10 times worse than CS2, honestly, the reason why CS2 is getting so much hate is because people were so used to how good CSGO was. CS2 will receive a lot of content once developers fix the bugs, which to be honest is going to take a while but it is still going to happen.

NA CS even though it is not as alive in 2019, is NOT dead. If it is truly dead, then coL would not be top 8 in the world, Liquid being a superteam, m80 be competitive to tier 1, and other tier 2 teams like WIldcard and Nouns producing talents. Don't forget, covid and Valorant took a generation off of NA talent such as S0m, Xeppa, Leaf. It will take time to producing the next generation of talent.

IMO, franchising will be the nail in the coffin for Valorant. I just don't see how talent can be developed if there is almost no tier 2 support. And now currently, tier 1 is taking a hit from barely playing any events. Say what you want about how it spreads influence to different regions, it will die out when Orgs are pulling out due to financial issues and little events.

At least the CS one is still alive, while the Val one is trajected to die lmao. In 2025, all CS events will be open circuit.

Cologne is one of my favorite events

CS, even though Valve are some lazy fucks, they are at least moving towards the right direction with open circuit requirements for all tournaments starting 2025 and the game will eventually get most of the bugs fixed with content added around end of 2024/2025. CSGO release was in 2012 and it was far worse than CS2 release, but eventually it got really good and people start to love it at 2015.

Valorant, its questionable to say the least. The esports scene is good but it is in a downward trajectory. Maybe the game received too much hype at the start and didnt grow properly like other esports LoL/CS. This made orgs invest too much and Riot realizing they are spending too much in Valorant, so they are cutting back (see Leo Faria). For the game itself, I think it will hold, for now. I think the game was a lot better when it has less agents, and I fear the people will quit when it gets overwhelming (people are already quitting).

god pls no, dont let him touch the only esports I really care about

Im afraid you are right. Valorant is receiving too much hype and these orgs are forced to invest heavily. Once they realize they are losing too much money, it is already too late. Compared to other esports where the scene started from the bottom and gradually being invested more until the current scene, Valorant started from a high point.

Imagine how good this opening ceremony would have been without the dumb dubstep at the end.

https://youtu.be/hDymtu9Y9Yo?si=H4c4VQ0VQWURQIXI&t=61

Honestly, just get rid of Valo and let Riot buy CS so it reach its peak

Sorry not happening lol