I'm not taking G2 over them but it's hard to argue against TGRD and M80 since both teams have better performing IGLs and coaches rn. Obviously the talent on the roster of 100T is great but if Cryo is playing this bad against C9 and players like Trent, Nismo and Zander are playing so so well rn I don't see how you're taking this 100T squad over them.

gotta be smoking something crazy over there to make a list like this

TLN does not deserve to be in this tier they have much more potential than any of these other teams they just can't figure out which 5 players and roles work best.

Ya Sinatraa sucks of everyone should be critical

he was only better than babybay on chamber don't make bad generalizations based on zero data.

ya bro lets grab from the italian region they definitely matter

region of europe

1 from every region means you own Europe therefore you can't lose I don't make the rules

drop entire roster
New team

ellement
Reazy
Roxie
Mistic
Logan
SmartSeven/Sliggy if he wants to
(Acend will qual so unpoachable)

I meant if they had had a chance to build a team for franchising. Both for different reasons give me reason to believe they could be the very best.

Engh took Gambit to a peak that no team ever has been to, back to back finals is unheard of at this point and was really a Russian war away from creating a dynasty. He should've been given the chance to build a team from the ground up just like he did Gambit(pre gambit Chronicle and Nats were the only ones to have had even remotely a name in the comp scene with Fishkavtom)

For Sliggy, he has been through all the rough TL times and has made some pretty good teams out of nothing. He turned Soulcas from Raze one trick to a very good flex, same with Jamppi and jett so you know he has player development ability. He also has never had an IGL, getting top 6 and top 8 with scream and Jamppi IGLing his teams. He's never really been given a shot with a team that has the potential to win it all. I wish we could've seen him build a roster for a team like Giants and see what he could do with another mind at IGL and a whole new set of fraggers.

Chet
Onur
doombros

Unironically think if they had been coaching recently that Sliggy and Engh would be right there.

He spent his whole career playing with Fuzari, Less and Saadhak. When was he supposed to play it before then? If he wants to be a lurker then yes sentinel is the best role for that and it's not really an argument. Controller and sentinel are the two roles that need the least mastery on their agents, and if he's already their only viper player then picking up KJ to fit his playstyle better isn't that much of an ask. KJ's only skill expression ability wise is molly lineups which take max a week to learn. Compare that to switching to Kay/o or Raze and it's nothing. If they're main goal was to let Pancada lurk and he's expressed that to them then yes putting him on sentinel agents is the correct decision pretty much every time.

All of these other guys joined different teams after franchising was announced so I don't see your point. He went from Korea's best player, APAC's best chance to overtake NA and EU to not even being one of the 20+ korean players in franchising. There are koreans on literally half of the APAC franchised teams so them picking GenG has no relevance LMFAO.

Like the post says I really don't get why dephh is being criticized for moving Pancada when, like you said, it's the players decision and Pancada seems to want to play this role.

A good portion of the best IGLs in the world prefer to be the initiator flex player. Of the top 4 finishers 2/4 do, and the IGLs of the 4 best teams in NA rn run a flex flash role. EMEA is really the only region where the norm is to have ur IGL on smokes(bonecold is the only one of the non trash teams who doesn't play smokes). Even in Asia Stax and Benkai, by far the two most notable IGLs from that region , play or used to play initiator.

Didn't Pancada say he prefered sentinels and only played controller because it's what Loud wanted? The sacy and dephh swaps sure they're a little odd but Pancada's makes sense because the team either needed him to excel on smokes or sentinel and dephh would in theory pick up the other.

Rhyme isn't even the most succesful IGL on his own team

God the second best duelist spot in Americas looks brutal.
Cryo and Ardiis haven't performed up to expectations
Heat Keznit and Jawgemo have been playing bad on ass teams(maybe not heat but he's not top 3)
C9 doesn't really have a true duelist player
Tenz and Taco have underperformed so far
I was gonna argue against the Dgzin pick but if Asuna, Leaf, and Victor are counted as flex players then ya I guess that's fair rankings. Some of the roles are a little off tho as I'd argue its

Duelist: aspas, dgzin, ardiis
controller: Khalil, s0m, bang
IGL: saadhak, kingg, fns
sentinel: Less, Leaf, Shyy
Initiator: Crashies, cauanzin, zekken
Flex: Asuna, Xeppaa, Victor

From what I've watched of Americas this is the general group that I really like. Obviously having ceiling in mind my guess is we see Cryo, Sacy, Pancada creep back in and if they were playing Yay and Marved would for sure be there. I would also have mwzera, nzr, and ethan possibly on here but I need to see more but their peaks recently have looked really solid, just a bit inconsistent.

Prior to 2023 FNS had been doing it better for longer. Both had a first and second but FNS had never had a BAD tournament. While Saadhak was bounced in the play-ins in S2, FNS had his worst result of the year at third place. His worst result had been third. And then prior to 2022 he had been the superior IGL since he got top 2 in S3 of 2021. Post Lock in I'm ready to rate Saadhak as the best IGL ever but FNS had the best case by far coming into franchising.

He's done absolutely nothing on the Tier 1 level since being named the next big star in APAC. None of these guys are bad players but at least Keznit Keloqz and Scream are in franchising

Ya and ur rating other teams that have beaten other teams. Paper Rex were suck and they won that specific Bo3 but if ur gonna allow yourself to rank teams that lost earlier above teams that went farther then no way should Optic be behind them. Paper Rex were sick that stage but were in a perfect meta and were definitely less "coordinated" which is the only word u used to justify this random system.

Entry: Buzz/Foxy9 pick ur poison
Flex: Stax
Initiator: Xeta
Controller: Mako
Sentinel: K1ng

This is also IMO how I think DRX should look by this time next year minus k1ng+Buzz at sentinel

Who cares

Paper Rex more coordinated than Optic in copenhagen LMFAO

I guess I forgot about CS but even then I wouldn't say they were a top 20 team in CS's total history, I'm pretty sure Dota is the only one you can say they had legit goat level success which is sad seeing how much they invest and make mediocre teams. Like legit have been in Valo for ages, never made a top 8 team in NA. League team had one great run last year then they fucked up relations with their star player. CS has been barren for 3 years now. Just a mediocre org when it comes to actually winning.

Sykko twitter used to go crazy on XSET but since joining SEN idk...

Aren't they like 100% backed on having been one of the best Dota teams ever and it's just never translated into an actual other game?

I would love to see Potter with a more talented team, but her roster construction and out of game decision making has been abysmal. Keeping reformed and apoth who have shown their level already, picking up BcJ, putting him on smokes, then subbing him out after being their best player? She actually has turned this team around a ton since this time last year but she needs to put in some more work at the end of 2023 for me to have faith in this team at all.

Unironically Leaf has been by far the best NA performer bar maybe s0m or Asuna ATM. It's crazy to think, though, that there's really only 14-15 guys in franchising that are from NA and would've been called T1 level players at the start of 2023.

Based on 2023?

Duelist: Derke
Flex: Chronicle
Initiator: Leo
Controller: Boaster
Sentinel: Nats

Second team of:
Sayf
Cloud
Shao
Ange1
Alfajer

Suygetsu would knock the sentinel guys down if we're including champs but rn his form has been average but not what we've expected from him as of late and not having one of the FUT trio felt off but we just need more games from them.

You gotta give it to them, their ceiling is insanely high. They have one of only three IGLs that have won on the international level, a guy who has the ability to be the best in the world, a young fragger on a new role, and 2 super solid support players. Not saying they will be better than M80 or break into that S tier, but if you simulate this world 100 times I think DSG turns into the best team in NA more times than people would think.

Keloqz
L1nk
Keznit
Scream
Lakia

Clear maybe? I know he's got tons of potential but has direct role clash and was probably their worst performer of the core 4

All Time and currentviper stats. Guy is basically one tricking her at this point and either top rating, ACS, or KD every map it seems. Dude destroyed NRG with it and only has looked slightly bad in that fracture stomping where LEV as a whole got shit on. IMO Suygetsu is the main competition but he is for sure top 3 in my eyes.

I mean they played both TSM and M80 twice, once with riku once with Exalt. They got shit on both times against M80 and looked much worse against TSM the second time around with Riku. Before that they looked eye test wise better either way. If Exalt was not a good fit for the team and they wanted to move on with those results than Riku obviously isn't the right fit given the two games they played. And for that last point I don't think Stewie or Yay care that much about salary. DSG is already reported paying better than most teams, and any team that's willing to pay more probably isn't going after those guys. I think if they actually want to compete this year they know DSG is their best chance.

The team has also gotten dramatically worse and changed roles every game Riku has been there. He's obviously not a bad player by any means but it's pretty obvious that this group isn't the one to win them ascension. Their best chance is going for starpower like Yay or Stewie to raise their ceiling.

Ya lil bro one bo3 takes top 3 initiator ITW from an already too low rating to a mediocre one ur really smart man

Ya bro crashies is for sure <90 man noyn def isn't delusional BR

I wouldn't say only lol Ange and Will fragged like crazy and Trick back then was good for calling

Didn't Trick also build the roster after DZ lol? I feel like this just sounds like a whiny guy post getting dropped which is a bad way to sell yourself for teams that want to pick u up next window.

it's Bjor an actually good sentinel player

Don't forget traditional sentinel players who can play their comfort role more.

if only RB was good in important international matches.

The roles are still important in solo q at most levels, but at a pro level it is much more of an archetype of player, similar to how the NBA works. In the NBA it's no longer one of 5 positions you play, but rather archetypes, whether you're a defensive shooter or a playmaker, you may still be in the same position but you are completely different players. In val the roles are more like.

OP specialist: Jett, Chamber sometimes Sage or Omen (Think Yay Cned Saya)
Entry Duelist: Raze, Jett, Neon sometimes Phoenix (Think Aspas Derke Foxy9)
Duelist flex: Raze Kayo Skye sometimes Phoenix Sage Breach or Neon, usually your most flexible fragger (Think Zekken Molsi Jingg)
Flash Initiator: Breach Kayo Skye sometimes viper or sage. Often IGLs (Think Saadhak Chronicle Stax)
Info Initiator: Sova Fade sometimes breach or viper (Think Crashies Leo Xeta)
Controller: Controller agents and sometimes Kayo or Sage (Think Marved Boaster Mak0)
Sentinel: KJ Cypher Viper and sometimes sage (Think Less Suygetsu K1ng)

So even though Zekken and Saadhak are both intiaitor players, they are completely different types of players even if their "role" is the same. These go even deeper depending on meta like sentinel intiator players such as FNS or Sheydos who play breach and sentinels, or sentinel entries like Alfa, Sova Raze players like Sinatraa or Nukkye, and Flash controller players like gMd or dephh. There's a ton of different archetypes of players to the point where having 4 roles isn't the way to think about it in competitive.

tuyz also looks really smart on the character which helps a lot, there's def gonna be a learning curve for lower level teams with IGLs that aren't as good. Very confident that s0m can become very good at it tho because it fits his playstyle.

Obviously you want clear to develop but he performed poorly last split and Yay is literally the best fragger in NA. Even if Clear reaches his peak next split he'd probably still be worse than what Yay is. It's a no brainer in my mind especially if Yay isn't asking for too much. It would obviously suck for clear and you'd feel super bad for his growth in the future but he would be back and I know plenty of teams would be very happy to have him.

I mean historically that's not true at all

I know Xeppaa has some pretty clean movement but he's a much better initiator than he is duelist.

Leaf is also ass at Raze while Zellsis is one of the best in NA. Zellsis literally fits this current squad perfectly because on Raze maps he can play Raze(or Xeppa can and he goes to flex) and on Jett maps he can be a more supportive player which he also does well. They have 2 of the better KJ players on their team who also play the two most important duelists separately. Those two work really well together especially if Leaf is going to continue to play Skye which is the one flash initiator Zellsis doesn't play.

I mean look at FPX and Optic, two of the three best teams last year who had multiple players playing multiple roles. The only player of those two teams that stayed in one role was Yay. Zellsis not being able to play Jett isn't a problem at all if he's able to play nine agents comfortably over all 4 roles. It's for sure better in the long run to have someone like that instead of a player that only plays within one role. That's literally what ended up being the downfall of Sen and PRX, players that could play 1-2 agents very comfortably but didn't play enough roles to support meta shifts. Zellsis is a meta proof player, how many guys are there in NA that can play well under any meta?
KJ Jett meta he can play KJ or a flash initiator
chamber meta he could play Raze or Kayo(two of the three best agents alongside chamber in that meta)
Double controller meta he can play viper
Double duelist meta he can play literally every duelist but Jett
He would only be fucked if a meta was chamber jett sova centric which doesn't look like it'll happen soon

I really don't see ur argument at all when most historical data and his overall play has dictated the exact opposite of what you're claiming.

is there any actual reasoning for that last quote or is that just your personal opinion because many top level teams and championship winners have had players play multiple roles on multiple maps and be successful. A good half of the best raze players in the world don't play Jett nor do they need to, I don't think it's a problem at all lol.