All of the TSM players

Great argument except for the facts that the meta has shifted and the fact that only 3/16 teams at Berlin played at Iceland. Fnatic and Liquid were the top 2 teams in EMEA during Iceland and now, 3 months later Fnatic dropped off and Liquid somewhat did as well. It's hilarious that you try to use Sentinels consistency as an argument against them like it's their fault that EMEA teams cannot stay on top for longer than a few months. Plus Sentinels 5-0'd Fnatic so even though they were all close maps it doesn't matter cause Sentinels were clearly the better team.

Paper Rex, Crazy Raccoons are definitely the weakest 2 and then you could say Zeta Division, Bren or KRU for the last 2. Those are the 5 teams clearly from the weakest regions but I hope at least 1 of them can either make the quarter finals or beat a team from EMEA/NA or VS.

It's not going to be changed for Berlin but hopefully they'll change it before Champions. They just need to give the attacking side more space to plant and to hold from on site in a post plant. As of right now all teams do is wall(mostly with sage but some pro teams can use a viper wall and util to plant as well) and plant and sit back main and yellow. It's almost impossible to have more than 1 person holding site(and the only real position to hold from is bottom site unless your team gets snowman control) and you need a wall to plant every time. If they can fix both of those issues then Icebox would be so much more exciting to watch and play.

That would be horrible groups tho. Why would they have 1 group with 4 teams being from the top 4 regions from the 1 international tournament we've had? Making groups that focus on where you placed in your region rather than how good your region is is illogical and would lead to horrible groups like the one's you presented. I'm not trying to insult you, you're just making a prediction, but I'm trying to say that scaling the regions based off of Iceland is a more logical way to do the seeding.

For those uninformed, they could not play with other teams while on LG's bench unless they were loaned to another team(like how Thief was loaned to V1). So now stellar and Thief can actually join teams and they should be 2 of the most sought after FAs(stellar because he's a solid player and IGL and thief because of his individual skill)

If Riot put VS, 100T and Acend in the same group then I will make 100 threads complaining about the seeding. They should have 1 EMEA team in each group, with 3 of those groups having NA teams and the last 1 getting VS. Imo the groups(in order of seeding) should be:
Group A: Sentinels, F4Q, G2, Crazy Raccoons
Group B: Gambit, Envy, Vivo Keyd, Paper Rex
Group C: VS, Acend, Bren, Zeta Division
Group D: 100T, SMB, KRU, Havan Liberty
The seeding would have Sentinels, Gambit and VS as the top 3 seeds(#1 NA is 1st cause of Iceland, #1 EMEA is 2nd and #1 KR is 3rd), then #2 NA, #2 EMEA, #3 EMEA(skip over #2 KR because they can't be in the same group as VS and skip over #3 NA because #3 EMEA would be in the same group as Gambit if we didn't), #3 NA(skip over #2 KR because if we didn't Envy would be in the same group as Sen), #2 KR, #4 EMEA, #1 BR, #1 SEA, #1 LATAM, #2 BR, #1 JP, #2 SEA, #2 JP. With this seeding, all of the NA, EMEA and KR teams are the top 9 seeds since they were clearly the 3 best regions at Iceland. Then, the #1 BR team is next because Vikings finished 5-6th, followed by the #1 SEA and LATAM teams. Then, the last 4 could be in any order really(#2 JP is logically a lock for last though). You could argue that the #2 SEA team should be above the #2 BR team and the #1 JP team because X10 finished above Sharks and CR but I value the placing of Vikings and the fact that Zeta Division are a 1 seed above the fact that X10 finished better at Iceland.

1. ShahZaM
2. TenZ
3. cNed
4. nAts
5. Asuna

Like I said they either have 100T, Envy or VS in their group. If I'm Acend idc which one I get since they're all about the same level so it doesn't matter if they tried their hardest or not anyways cause either way, the other best team in their group will be good.

Dumb argument because back when Iceland was happening they were both top 4 teams EMEA. Same goes for Version1. They were the 2nd best team cause of the post plant meta but now they aren't even top 10 after losing Vanity(even before losing him, they were, at best, the bottom of the top 10)

Look at their 1st game vs Gambit(winner quals to Berlin) vs this seeding game. Gambit is my favorite team not from NA and all but Acend were clearly the better team in the game that mattered most. Whether they are 1st 2nd or 3rd seed EMEA, they won't play Sen and the second best team in any group they will be in will probably be 100T/Envy/VS. Acend beat Gambit 13-7 in their first matchup on Bind(the game that actually mattered) and now Gambit beat Acend 13-4 on Bind in a seeding match. It's clear to me that Acend are not trying anywhere near as much as they were in the first matchup so stop overreacting.

Honestly I think Sen are the only true S tier team right now because they have consistently been a top 3(After first strike they've been #1) team in NA for about a year now and they have proved themselves on LAN too. Acend, while they have looked great, they haven't consistently been a top 3 team in EU and they didn't make Iceland either. SMB are also too new to be considered a S tier team yet. If Acend and SMB prove themselves on LAN, then I will consider them S tier teams but as of right now, Sentinels are the only S tier team imo.

Why even do a group stage when you could just do a 16 team double elimination bracket? If a team gets an easy group then they already make it to semis? I know there's a time concern but a 16 team double elimination bracket wouldn't take longer than an entire group stage. Group stages are always less exciting then the actual bracket play so why not just make the entire thing a double elim bracket? I also hope they make it so that the groups should be like Group 1: NA, EMEA +2, Group 2: NA, EMEA +2, Group 3: NA, EMEA +2, Group 4: KR, EMEA +2. If VS is in a group with a NA and EMEA team than this will be even worse formatting. Let's hope they make the best groups they can.

TSM Wardell (jett awp)
Sen SicK (secondary duelist/flex)
XSET BCJ(Sova/flex)
100T nitr0(Smokes)
Envy fns(IGL and sentinel)
Also another team without players from those 5 teams:
T1 autimatic(Jett/Raze)
GenG Shawn(secondary duelist/initiator)
NRG eeiu(Sova/initiator)
C9 Vanity(IGL and smokes)
V1 Zellsis(sentinel)
This one was much harder cause corey and Babybay are among many great duelists but I think autimatic is the best jett/raze out of the players not on TSM, Sen, 100T, Envy or XSET and Shawn is a great skye who could also play kayo, sova or pretty much any duelist really, which is why I picked him over corey. Vanity is a great IGL and smoke main, eeiu is the 3rd best sova in NA rn and Zellsis is so good on the killjoy.

Cause they were teammates on Chaos and the reason he joined was to be reunited with leaf and Xeppaa...

Ok so mitch is playing cause they need a sentinel on Breeze, Vanity is the IGL, xeta is there cause they need a sova and leaf and Xeppaa are there cause they're the reason Vanity joined. I mean leaf would play regardless but it all makes sense. Plus they are going to win no matter who they play with so they can try new things out.

1. TenZ/cNed
2. nAts

Pansy and Hypoc, Sean Gares and DDK, Upmind and Sully...

NA: ShahZaM, TenZ, SicK, dapr, nitr0
EU: cNed, ScreaM, BONECOLD, Sayf, Shao
edit: EU team does not have players on Turkish or CIS teams

I mean it's not a list of main duelists, it's a list about the best duelists and when SicK is on duelist, I think he is better than everyoine below him. In my opinion he's the best phoenix in NA(probably in the world too) and he's easily a top 5 raze in NA. Basically what I'm trying to say is I'm not making a list where each player only counts for 1 role, but where I'm putting the best players on each role in each list, regardless of whether it's their main role or not. Also I need to watch much more Xset because I guess whenever I watch them, I normally am more focused on the other team for whatever reason or I just don't watch them too much. So when I rewatch some more Xset games, maybe I'll change my mind about PureR but as of now, I'm sticking with my list. Also I just want to say the 2 things I remember from Xset are that zekken is the best skye in NA and that Bcj is definitely a top 2 sova in NA.

I never said he played dedicated raze... He plays raze on bind, and when he does, he is great on raze, just like how he's great on phoenix...

I hate how people call this list bad but then don't say why or who they would have instead. Personally I would say

1. TenZ
2. Asuna
3. Yay
4. SicK
5. Wardell
   You could definitely argue for someone like corey, Victor, leaf, Autimatic, PureR, YaBoiDre or some others to be in Wardell's place, you have to remember that, even though he's nowhere near as good at rifling as some of these other guys(he's not bad but he's not an elite rifler), that teams are scared of Wardell and whenever they play against TSM, they game plan around Wardell and avoiding him when they can. TenZ and Asuna are imo clearly the top 2 duelists in NA, Yay is a nasty jett and a good reyna and he's a great rifler and awper and SicK is a great phoenix and raze player.

Name the players in EU that could call as good as him and play his role better that aren't already on tier 1 orgs... Also so far they have done good... They pretty much dominated everyone except for Acend in Challengers 1 and they easily beat Oxygen. You are basing their success entirely off of the fact that they lost to SMB which doesn't make sense at all.

This is the best team they've ever had and I'm not going to say otherwise because of 1 series. They only looked amazing at the very beginning of Valorant because they had 0 competition other than FPX and Liquid, but they were still miles ahead in terms of talent.

Yeah G2 didn't have a set IGL for a long time which caused them to drop off the face of the earth after their initial success which was due to the complete gap in talent between them and the rest of EU... G2 is now looking the best they've ever looked before and part of that is due to actually having a good IGL in Koldamenta.

Liquid is the most overrated team in the world

Yeah you were 100% right... like I said I'm really high on NaVi and I hadn't watched any of the SMB games in this tournament(They look so much better now than they did in the Turkish challengers when I was watching). Honestly a lot of it has to do with pAura. pAura really struggled during the Turkish challengers and, even though they won, I was disappointed by how they played. But now that pAura is really starting to pop off as well and the team is in their groove, this is even better than what I was expecting from when this roster was made

I mean maybe not but they definitely aren't qualifying now lol. Basically my point was they would've had a much easier route to qualify if they lost to Liquid

Yeah comparing how 2 teams did against the same team is never a good argument. Some teams match up better against some teams than others do. Plus you are completely ignoring how ForZe has been playing in this tournament and instead, you are referring back to Challengers 1 for your argument.

I mean sure but I've seen a lot of people saying the same things about how Envy would win a BO3 and about the whole seeding game shit

Wait so when 100T loses to Sen we forget that they're seeding games but when 100T beats Envy we use the excuse of it just being a seeding game? Also if it was a BO3, 100T would ban Bind, Envy would ban Split and they would play the same first 3 maps(Which 100T won 2 of them). So even if it was a BO3 , 100T went up 2-1 after the first 3 maps anyways so that's also a shit argument

If NaVi lost to Liquid, they would play Oxygen, ForZe and then the loser of SMB/G2(Idk if it's the loser of that series or the Gambit/Acend series) to qual. I think NaVi would somewhat easily beat Oxygen and ForZe and I think they would beat SMB, assuming they lose to G2, as well(It would be a very close series but I'm very high on NaVi). If they won those 3 games, they would qual for Berlin, whereas by beating Liquid, they obviously lost to Acend and then would have to go through Giants, Guild and the loser of the Acend/Gambit series which is a much harder route to qual. Also can someone tell me if I'm correct about the winner of ForZe/Liquid playing the loser of SMB/G2 or if I'm just being an idiot

Imo they're the 3 most exciting players to watch in NA(I might be forgetting someone). Dapr is also one of the most exciting as well as guys like leaf and autimatic but I would say that Yay, Asuna and TenZ are the 3 most exciting players to watch in NA and I can't wait to see all 3 of them at Berlin

In that case, if NaVi really wants to compete with Gambit and the other top EMEA teams, they should drop arch and duno and pick up zeddy and a viper main(maybe sp1ke but I'm basing that completely off of stats cause I don't watch CIS other than when Gambit, NaVi or maybe ForZe are playing

Can someone give me like a list of the IGLs on the top CIS teams? I know arch is the IGL for NaVi and Redgar is the IGL for Gambit but outside of those 2 idk any of the IGLs on the other top CIS teams

Maybe but 100T has much more LAN experience so for Berlin I would say 100T's ceiling is higher. Also tbf(I'm just making more excuses cause I'm a 100T fan) Asuna just switched over to jett and with more time he will surely become better on Jett. His awping in the challengers finals has looked so much better than it did in Challengers 1 and so did his jett gameplay so hopefully he will only become better on jett as time goes by. Also I know Envy has a good amount of LAN experience themselves since FNS has played in numerous LAN events, Yay has played in a good amount and Victor has played in some as well but none of them have played on as big of stages as HiKo, nitr0 and Ethan have. I mean HiKo and nitr0 are some of the only Valorant players who have played in a Major final before and all 3 of them have also been playing at most of the biggest cs tournaments in the past few years, which the Envy players have not been playing in. I know I'm biased but I think 100T have a real good shot at going far in Berlin and maybe even winning it all. Also be sure to remind me of how shit of a take this was if 100T flop at Berlin

100T have so much LAN experience tho. I guarantee you that they will play much better at Berlin than they normally do. Like HiKo, nitr0 and Ethan have played in numerous LANs(same with Steel before the matchfixing) and Asuna is just a demon so, theoretically, he will be perfectly fine at LAN as well.

Also mCe(Chaos coach) just got dropped from GenG so maybe we could see C9 pick him up as well. He's a very good coach so I think he must've been poached by another org and C9 is a huge org and their issues have had more to do with the Leadership rather than the talent. If C9 did get mCe, I think they will be a top 5 team in NA, but if not they will probably be around the level of TSM, GenG, FaZe and T1(all teams that are good but just outside of the top 4 and on any given day, they could compete with the top 4 or lose to a team that they should be beating)

Pittsburgh Knights

mCe to C9?

Disappointed? Going into this tournament, Sen were the clear #1 and 100T, Envy and Xset were all battling for 2-4th with TSM being on the outside looking in(They were like 5th but could go higher). 100T, Envy and Xset are all still in the 2-4 range but now 100T and Envy look better than Xset but they are all still roughly on the same level.

Since when was I required to share the opinion of pros? They are really close in terms of skill but I think Crashies is just a bit better.

I mean he wasn't just gonna not defuse... He's paid to play for FPX and he COULD have won it(He likely wouldn't have but he still could've) so not defusing would be unfair to FPX(If he doesn't defuse, SMB win a round BECAUSE of the servers which has nothing at all to do with FPX). I know it's not SMB's fault either but you can't just throw a round that you could've won because the other team had an issue

People who don't follow Valorant are probably so confused rn

I also think he's a pretty good IGL so it makes 0 sense why NRG are having s0m IGL instead of him

I mean NaturE played cypher/killjoy on IMT and koosta has in the past so the only slight concern would be about who would play sova on each map but like I said, I think NaturE, koosta and even Shawn could all pick up sova when the team needs it.

Individually
yay is slightly better than PureR
Crashies is slightly better than bcj
Marved = dephh
Victor = Zekken(maybe Zekken is a bit better)
fns<ayrin
Skill wise, these teams are very even, with Envy having a slight advantage, and as a team, these two are also extremely even and I have no clue who really has the edge. This should be a very exciting series to watch

Imo they should drop mkael for mummAy and try NaturE/Koosta or maybe even Shawn on Sova(depending on the map). Kinda like how ShahZaM, SicK and dapr have all played Sova for Sen just depending on the map. Then they can have mummAy on jett on some maps and smokes on others(which would allow gMd to play more duelist, specifically raze on some maps)

Put eeiu above ShahZaM and it's good

65k watching TSM Rise right now also there was more than 100k watching Liquid NAVI this morning. Also people like me don't really give a shit about these matches. The interesting matches are on tonight so look out for the viewership on those if you care so much about viewership.