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Better 12-team doble elim

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#1
Anguibok

Hi vlr, last week I was criticising the current kickoff format because of unfair advantage for the team that loose 1st round. Because criticising without proposing alternative is not really god, this week I propose a way to improve the round robin with 3 teams, so we can use it in doble elimination format.

https://youtu.be/zZWN-DYldKw

In short, this is the tri-fractionned format, a format where 3 team play basically 3 BO3 against each other that reduce bias and make it more fair. Here is how thats work : At start of the day, At start, you make all the 3 map vetos at the start of the day, next, you play the 3 first game of each BO3, and then you play the 2nd game of each BO3 but in a specific order based on their rank after the 3 first games. 1st versus 3rd, 1st versus 2nd and finally 2nd versus 3rd (this ensure competitive integrity, stakes and suspens), so now the 6 first game of the 3 BO3 are done, if 2 team are tied then we play the decider that was planned at the start of the BO.

Not my best video, but still don't hesitate to subscribe ^^

Script coming soon

#2
Anguibok
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script

Hi vlr, in a previous video I was saying that I hate how the doble loose bracket with 12 team is made, and when I say something is bad, it’s not suffisent, and that mean I need to propose an alternative, and this one will be kinda out of the box, and rely on the fact that one way or another we will be in a situation where we will have to sort out 3 teams. The actual format give a bye to the looser of the first game, but I will rely on an equivalent of the round robin with 3 team, but this format have issues, so will propose an alternative that will solve the issues. So i’ve created something that I will call the « Tri-fractionned format » That is basically a round robin with 3 BO3 where the game are played in a specific order to ensure the competitive integrity and hype.

So how does that work ? At start, you make all the 3 map vetos at the start of the day, next, you play the 3 first game of each BO3, and then you play the 2nd game of each BO3 but in a specific order based on their rank after the 3 first games. 1st versus 3rd, 1st versus 2nd and finally 2nd versus 3rd, so now the 6 first game of the 3 BO3 are done. Finally if 2 team are tied then we play the decider that was planned at the start of the BO. In 7 games this is over, versus the actual 9 games we have today, Well we could choose play the 9 games if every team are in 2-2, but this will almost never happen, and even if that happen, we can also make rule in that specific situation to reduce the number of game. If you want to play more deicder and be sure no team are tie, then you can instead book 8 games instead of 7.

Ok so since this idea is sound coming out of nowhere, and you probably think it’s a bad idea, so here is my train of thougt, and why this solution indeed work…

First, why does we need this solution, is they are really a problem with double elimination with twelve team. Hear me out : I like the doble elimination bracket in a lot of situation, I like it for 4 team, for 8 teams, but also for 5 team and all his variation with ten team twelve team and fourty teams, because even if some team receive a bye, every win matter, and a loose doesnt grant any round of bye, so thats good to me. But double elimination bracket doesnt work for three, six or twelve team, because the first team that loose receive a bye and having more time to preparate themself, and potentially receive an unfair advantage, as I kinda show it in 2 of my previous video.

In the current format we also give a round of bye for the 4 best team based on their last result, but what if we decided to keep the double elimination format, but not give a bye to anyone ? In that scenario after the first round we would have 6 team with 1 win, and 6 with 1 lose. After 2 round we would have 3 team eliminated with 2 loose, 6 team in 1win-1lose that we can pair together, and the three winner will stay alive in the looser bracker… And finally, in winner bracket, 3 team 2-0… And thats here the problem start, because we have 3 team with the same reccord and we need to pair them for the next round, so we don’t have any choice and we have to put them together.

In that situation we usually use the classical round robin with 3 BO3 all played the same day, but this have some issues, you can have a full BO3 without any stakes, but even worse, you can have in the last BO, a situation where a team have played their 2 BO, and will watch the last game between a team that could steal their 1st place if they win, and a team that could win on the paper, but that is already eliminated giving them less motivation to win, making the last BO fully biased.

So first, something is important : we need that every places give a different outcome, because if only the first place count, a team that loose 3 games in a raw, will be eliminated no matter what, and may give bias in their last game, and to be honnest, you can even being eliminated after 2 games. So it’s important to make sure every place matter, and the 2nd place give you a better position in the bracket than the 3rd, so you make every games matter, and reduce every bias.
In the tri-fractionned system that I propose they are only 1 case out of 8, that force a team to play, even if they have no more stakes for them, and when it’s happen, it’s not a probleme because it’s not creating any bias, because, if this precise team loose, then, it’s just enable(énèybeul) a decider game between the 2 best teams. And this is only for the tri-fractionned format with 7 games, if you choose to go to 8 games maximum, the stakes come back.

So I need to proove my claim, and to do so we will check every possibilities, so we play the first 3 games with everyteam playing the 2 other team in one game, and then we arrive to the 4th game. It must feature the team that finished 1st on the 3 first game, against the worst team in the 3 first game, because at this point, everything can still happen, and the worst team, can still mathématically hope to finish first if everyone end in 2-2, and this will be broken if we play any game before that. This game have to be played first, because this is the one that have the most chance to have no stakes for one of the 2 teams, if another game is played first.

For the 5th games, it have to be the 2 best team in the first 3 games, because here, the 2nd best team have still their destiny in their hand to finish 1st, if we play the other game first and the 2nd loose against the 3rd, then the best team is already insured to finish first, and they will have to play against a team that need to fight for the 2nd place, and will probably make the win easier for them and a create a huge bia for the 2nd place.

#3
Anguibok
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+++So after 5 games they are 5 possibilities, and all of them are fair.

  • 1st possibility : The team that played everything have 4 wins, and the stake of the last game is for the team in 1-2, is to secure the 2nd place, and for the team in 0-3 to tie their opponent and force them to play the decider map
  • 2nd possibility : The team that played everything have 3 wins and the 2 other team are in 1-1 and so the winner of this map will end 2nd. Note that this is only for the system with 7 games maximum.
  • 3rd possibility : The team that played everything have 2 wins, and then we have one team with 2 point that will play to secure the 1st place, and the team with 1 point that will try to make everyone in 2-2
  • 4th possibility : team that played everything have 1 win, and then the winner of this game will finish 1st and the loser 2nd
  • And last case scenario, the team that played everything have 3 win and one of the other team are in 2-1, and the other in 0-3, and thats the worst case scenario because the team in 2-1 will face a team that will end last no matter what, so the win will be easier, but, it’s not that bad, because if that happen, then we will have a decider between the 2 best team, so no team will be eliminated because one team have nothing to play, and bomb their last game, and everything will just rely on the decider.

But now I think you may say : « What I don’t like in this format is some team that do 1-1 will not play their decider, so it’s not a real BO3 so thats unfair », and I understand this point of view, but the tri-fractured format is compatible with it, it’s possible to play every decider, and thats already the case in most of case, and if you pick the 8 game format then it’s even more true. Let’s see outcome by outcome :

  • If a team end with 4 win and the last end with 0, then they are no decider to play
  • If a team end with 4 win and the 2 last end with 1 point, the only decider will be play anyway
  • If a team end with 0 win and the 2 last end with 3 point, the only decider will be play anyway
  • If a team end with 3 win, another with 2 and the last with 1 and that we are in a situation where the only decider that need to be play is the 1st against the 3rd, then it’s useless to play the decider because it will not change the ranking, no matter what because even if the 3rd win, they will finish last with 2 map win for 3 map lose. Against 2 map win for 2 map loose, and the first team that just loose this decider, will end with 3 maps win for 1 loose.
  • If a team end with 3 wins, another with 2 and the last with 1 but this time they are 2 decider to play, then, you can choose just keep the rank as it is, or pick the 8 games option and play the 2 decider but you might end with a game that oppose a team that have nothing to play with a team that have to play something… An alternative solution could be to start with the 2nd team versus the 3rd team and play the decider of the last game only if the 2nd team beat the 3rd. Both solution are okay to me, everything depend if you want to keep 7 games, or if you consider 8 is ok.
  • If 3 teams end with 2 point then everything depend on the rule you want make. Anything goes, You can rely on round win, you can choose to play the 3 deciders, but you might end in a situation where everyone is still tie, so maybe it’s not the best choice. So to me, if you want to keep the 8 games and having no tie, the best solution is to play the decider between 2 team with the worst round ratio, and the winner play their decider against the 1st for the 1st place.

So in conclusion, I think this Tri-fractured format, or at least this precise way to order 3 BO3, is how every round robin with 3 teams, and 6 games should be played. It’s true for BO3, but it’s also the same if you are running 6 BO1. But let’s be honnest, nobody like BO1. I think with this Tri-fractured format, we can really make fair the competition with 12 teams, better than what we have, especially if we play the 8games version of the tri-format, that ensure every meaningfull decider is played, that also avoid tie, and also preserve competitive integrity by maintaining the stakes. What do you think vlr ? Do you saw any flaws in my reasoning. Anyway byye…

#4
Taruuu1
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how does losing in round 1 give you an advantage lol

#5
Anguibok
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The team in 0-1 have an advantage over the team in 1-1 because they have more time to prepare their game

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Adv7_Vb_29U

#6
Taruuu1
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well thats how time works

#7
Anguibok
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Sure but this is not supposed to be like that, thats the only case that it's work like that, in every other double elim format, a team in 1-1 will play a team in 1-1 wish make it fair

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