SEN is in a bad spot

#1

smartiewatch

With TenZ and Shahzam nearing the end of their contracts, Sentinels has the chance to do a clean rebuild of their Valorant team. The problem with this is they'll alienate more than half of their fanbase.

Losing your two most popular players is tough on any org. It also means 8 out of the 10 people who got you to franchising are gone. It just seems like a horrible PR move.

My suggestion would be to keep the core team of TenZ, Shahzam, Dapr, SicK and add a controller. That's a super team with the correct coaches, which they have now.

#2

GreyDaze

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Shahzam😂. They will keep him only if they want to lose. In what world is the roster u mentioned a super team lmao

#5

smartiewatch

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Based on the trophies they've already won and still holding the record for most dominant performance at an international event. But that's not even the main point. They're the team who got Sentinels to franchising. Dropping them will surely alienate a huge part of their fanbase.

#6

GreyDaze

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Sure if they indeed go with the roster u mentioned, they will place 30th in the kickoff tourney. But obviously clout>>>performance right?

#10

smartiewatch

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People forget that Esports is a deficit business. Almost all the teams are not making any profit. Their values are extremely inflated to attract investors and if they don't win any tournaments, the only real fallback they have is their players producing income through team-wide brand sponsorships and sales. This roster's "clout" is making more money for Sentinels than any of the other orgs rosters. Or will you disagree with that as well? There's more to it than just winning trophies because in the end, only one team can win per tournament.

#17

GreyDaze

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They already made franchising. They don't need clout without performance anymore. If they acquire players like marved+xset core they will get good enough clout although not as much as b4 but still enough. With a team like that they will get performance+clout. Although I don't think they should drop tenz coz he is still decent enough, they should drop shahzam immediately coz any igl in the market is better than him

#29

deluxton

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I'm hearing ya loud and clear man

#41

AceGX

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I dont think players would help getting a team franchised

#3

M0K1

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agreed and for controller role I recommend Zombs that will make a totally new team

#7

smartiewatch

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The point I'm making is they're planning a total rebuild but that'll cost them the majority of their fanbase so it might not be the right move.

#4

titanwithpp

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Yes totally make a team with shahzam, tenz, sick, dapr and take zombs for controller and we will go back in 2022 to being the best clout team but worst performing team why not because PR matters more than putting up results in a tournament

#8

PuGGey

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with the exception of Shaz; TenZ, Dapr, and SicK are top 3 NA players in their respective roles

#11

titanwithpp

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Dapr was a good sentinel back in the day but lately he hasn't been the same as 2021.
TenZ is still good but he has flexibility issues, his jett and reyna are good but chamber is mid at best. Raze still has way to go.
SicK no doubt is a top 3 in whatever role he gets in, guy is a monster but he hasn't played in months now.

If you tell me they can keep these 3 and with new coaching staff they will get better but the problem with SEN is they couldn't evolve with the evolving meta of the game. Nobody adapted to the chamber meta and even when the raze popularity shot up.

#12

GreyDaze

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Chamber: Yay,cryo,dicey,tex,bdog>tenz
Initiator/flex: Bcj,dephh,zekken,Trent,asuna,crashies,fluyuh,eeiu,xeppa and so many more>dapr
Controller: Marved,bang,supamen,valyn,zander>sick

#13

PuGGey

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bro cant even get their roles right

#18

GreyDaze

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🤡 the roles are based on previous lcq and since 90% of ppl want sick back on controller.

#21

PuGGey

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no. literally nobody is saying that

#23

GreyDaze

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Man's been living under a rock. Everyone on vlr has been saying that if deph is a igl they should put sick on smokes if they don't get marved. Lol atleast know ur facts b4 saying something. Also I like how u conveniently left out how u were wrong about tenz and dapr

#30

PuGGey

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TenZ is only a chamber when riot forces every roster to have one, so hopefully when they actually fix the agent he will get to play his actual pool. even if, TenZ is still better at chamber than dicey, tex, and bdog; making him still top 3 NA chambers. Dapr is not an initiator, and as a 3 week prep role swap he was still better than dephh, fluyuh, eeiu, and xeppa. hes more comparable to ayrin than anyone you listed and hes still a better anchor than him

#31

GreyDaze

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Dapr literally hasn't played anything except initiator in lcq. And he was not even close to eeiu,xeppa,fluyuh and dephh who literally had a decent performance at even Champs. It doesn't change the fact that tenz is still a chamber and Bdog,tex and especially dicey>tenz. Tenz has Plat gamesense. The obi thing he might do better is his aim and thats it.

#38

ffafterfive

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You want riot to fix the agent so tenz can go back to 100% jett again? Tenz is not better than bdog at chamber. He is probably even with tex and dicey. He is not top 3 chambers in NA because that'll go to yay, cryo, bdog. Dapr only played initiator in LCQ and is not better than xeppa at it. Be real bro

#43

PuGGey

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yes, there is most definitely not a chamber problem plaguing all levels of play. and TenZ def isnt better than bdog in almost every stat, and definitely didnt have more impactful kills throughout their 2-0 matchup, TenZ taking down Shopify's entry smokes and intel more often than bdog did anything, bdog even losing to a boomer whos been pro for a month and a neon more often than him getting anything that round. 100% not

#42

AceGX

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Tenz fell off
typical sentinels era is over
sick hasnt been in pro play for a long time now
lil bro really said "top 3 na players in their respective roles"

#15

smartiewatch

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PR matters a lot, yes. Especially taking into account how brand partnerships, merch sales and individual player drops contribute to orgs breaking even. Remember, only one team can win per tournament. Sentinels has a 1/30 chance of winning the first lan and same for the rest of the tournaments. Their PR or "clout" is a huge factor in producing capital when their not winning tournaments.

What if they revamp the whole new roster and still not be good? Then they won't have the offseason "clout" that drives capital and sales.

#16

titanwithpp

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If you didn't know, SEN got their clout when they were considered the best team because they would win a lot. They signed TenZ and that boosted their popularity even more. Winning Masters Reykjavik added to their expectations. If they didn't be dominant in 2020-21 we wouldn't really see much popularity for them. Sure TenZ would still be popular but SEN wouldn't be the same as they are now.

#9

sheahhhh

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i agree with this take 100%

#14

I_HATE_MCE

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Bro really said they’re a super team🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣😂😂😂😂😂😂🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣😂😂😂😂😂🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣😂😂😂 my man you are living in the past

#19

smartiewatch

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Living in reality. Sentinels is not a huge organization like C9, TSM, FAZE, etc. Them dropping the core people who got them to franchising is a horrible move. They'll lose a lot of fans. Sentinels dominated NA and dominated an international event without any coaching staff.

Since then, they've been horrible and their org has let them down by not getting coaching staff earlier. They've also failed to take accountability for how bad they've been. But this team, is still untested with proper coaching. You can't deny that. Rawkus helped a little but he always had broken teams to fix. With the signing of Syyko and Kaplan, the core Sentinels team is a super team.

#20

GreyDaze

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Dude u have no idea what a super team is. A super team is a team with all the players in that role as the top players. None of sen's players are top 5 in their respective roles in NA

#22

smartiewatch

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I'm basing the phrase "super team" on what Syyko tweeted. It's impossible for Sentinels to get the top players in each role because everyone is already in different teams. The only one they can get is Marved.

I apologize if this led to confusion. I thought it was obvious I was referring to the new coach who tweeted he's building a super team.

#25

GreyDaze

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A super team's definition is still the same. Sen can easily build a super team of sorts.
Dephh-igl(easily top 3 in na)
Marved-smokes(best in na)
Bcj-initiator(top 3 in Na)
Zekken-flex/entry(best in na)
Dicey-chamber(top 5 in Na)

#27

smartiewatch

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Alright, I get you. On paper, this would definitely be a great team and much better than what their current roster is because of how badly they've been performing. I guess that's why they're taking so long to decide the roster because if they're trying to build a roster like that it'll take a lot of testing.

Just from a fan perspective, I'd still back the current roster. With proper coaching staff they'll be able to adapt better to changing meta, take responsibility and improve overall as a team. A new team might look nice and flashy but it can just as easily flop. If they get a whole new roster and flop, Sentinels is dead in the water whereas even through this horrible year of Valo from the current roster they're still relevant. Here we are, discussing them like we know sh*t about the inner workings of their team because of how relevant they are.

#32

GreyDaze

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See a few months ago I might have agreed with u but the team and especially shahzam has been offered so many chances that if it was any other player and any other team,he would literally been kicked long ago. Shahzam doesn't deserve another chance. Tenz is still decent and I think he will definitely become better under a good igl and coach. But at the end why would u want to stick with a core the has been putting up horrible performance after horrible performance instead of just going for players who have already proved themselves and are clearly better players than the pre existing ones

#34

smartiewatch

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I hear you and to to be honest you are probably correct. My opinion is as a fan which is not always the best position to be in when discussing this type of thing. And I'm not just focusing on pro play which is also not helping my case.

From a pure pro play viewpoint, I can see why it's necessary for the old roster to be dropped and them to build an entire new roster from scratch.

#35

GreyDaze

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I was talking only from a pro scene perspective✌️

#24

I_HATE_MCE

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Bro stfu there are tons more talents players that would outperform them and deserve to be in franchising more. NA only has 5 teams and no one wants to waste those slots on a gang of washed streamers when so much better talent is out there. They had their chance and they fucked it up. In the long run results are more important than popularity

#26

smartiewatch

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We are having a discussion and we disagree on some points. Why are you so aggressive?

I understand you believe they've had their chance. I don't disagree in totality. I just believe they've not been given a chance under proper coaching. And the gang of washed streamers are more watchable than any other team from NA in the pro scene. That's just a fact. People want to see this team have a redemption arc or people have a hate boner for them and want to see them lose.

#28

I_HATE_MCE

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Why are they more watchable than any other team?💀 Just because you don’t have the attention span to become a fan of new players? Why not let new players have a storyline instead of obsessing over a team that failed multiple times to prove that they were nothing more than a fluke. And stop blaming the coaching, you’re sounding like Shazam with those excuses

#33

smartiewatch

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Stop blaming the coaches? They didn't have any, that's the point I've been making. They're untested under proper coaches with an actual full roster. And I've fairly criticized Sentinels throughout this whole discussion multiple times.

New players will have their chances. This is literally the first year of franchising. Do you think Valorant is going to die out over the next few years which would make it impossible for new players to create storylines?

They're more watchable because of the numbers. It's literally in the words, more watchable. People just watch them more than any other NA team.

And you don't know me, so your assumption that I am unable to become a fan of new players is baseless. For one, my favorite roster from this year was Ghost Gaming. I love those type of storylines. We just disagree on the Sentinels thing, no big deal.

#36

deluxton

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Guy is braindead bro, don't even bother trying to have a reasonable discussion with him

#37

symbols07

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and then what? lose with that core again so that fans tell you to fix your shit?? fans will go and stay, if you perform well, just like optic you'll have one of the biggest fanbases by gameplay alone

#39

smartiewatch

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That is true as well. But the Optic roster didn't happen overnight. It took a long time to build and they already had some popularity. If Sentinels revamp their whole roster and flop, they're dead in the water because they would've already lost a big part of their fanbase by letting these guys go. So it's a huge risk.

But I'm not disagreeing with you. There has been many problems with the current roster and the easiest solution is probably a complete rebuild.

#40

symbols07

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yea true, and they might never be able to do so, but in the end they have shifted their focus to esports from clout, you cant dream of best of the both world when you are just starting(a new roster). yea rebuilding with tenz is a more likely solution, as he is still a good player, but i wont reccomend and neither do i think sen will go with shahz.

#44

GAGAZ

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who care tenz and shazam deadweight , fo fanbase
zekken marved dapr sick + good igl ,future is blight

#45

Dybala21

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I mean it’s still up in the air. Just don’t be suprised if Sentinels 2023 roster is without Tenz and Shahzam

For me, i will hope both players remain with Sentinels just because I want to see them regain their glory days

Hopefully the org sort things out and make the right moves ( signing both Syko and Kaplan is a huge W)

Let’s hope whoever joins the team is a good fit and hungry for success ( just like what 100T did prior to Stage 2)