The reason sen fell off was because of tenz..but hear me out.
Not because he's a bad player but he just doesn't fit the need of the team. Ever since he came there have been synergy and role issues. Sick and shaz had to leave their duelist roles and move to supports and the lack of cohesion eventually started showing in their results.
Everything worked well initially because the scene hadn't developed much in the beginning but now the competition's tough. Now they needed some scapegoat to reason with the lacking results so they pinned it on zombs and he got kicked when in reality it wasn't because of him that they were losing.
Players in this team are playing roles that they arent supposed to play and it just shows. I think everyone in sen is good but not good enough to work out together, they would probably find more success splitting and playing for different teams
Why sen fell off because of tenz
GLN321 [#3]so you're saying they haven't been able to learn their new roles after a whole year passed, having won a masters in that time
Stream org remember? Plus i would say its more that they haven't worked on their teamwork instead of their roles
armeena [#5]Stream org remember? Plus i would say its more that they haven't worked on their teamwork instead of their roles
So your whole thread was about Roles and now you say teamwork
nayakshubham [#6]So your whole thread was about Roles and now you say teamwork
What do you think cohesion and synergy mean?
Ronnie7z [#8]Can't disagree. They got 3 jett mains playing in the same roster.
right now every single player on sen prefers playing jett in ranked, even dapr
Ronnie7z [#8]Can't disagree. They got 3 jett mains playing in the same roster.
Exactly. It doesn't matter how 'good' your players are if they dont mesh well together they won't win shit
jackb2016 [#12]Tenz wasn't the problem zombs wasn't the problem rawkus wasn't the problem
You're onto something..
armeena [#14]You're onto something..
if SEN just drop their whole roster then there will be no problem as they will never lose again with that roster
Ronnie7z [#8]Can't disagree. They got 3 jett mains playing in the same roster.
DRX also has 3 Jett mains lol. MaKo Rb and BuZz.
jackb2016 [#15]if SEN just drop their whole roster then there will be no problem as they will never lose again with that roster
Can't argue with that ^_^!
Stream [#17]8 of 10 Games tenz not even positive
Only Trash 12yo weebs support him
That's one aspect i chose not to mention as well. The whole team relies on him too much for someone so inconsistent
Bruh they won a master with him being the clear star of the team which even prompted the org to trigger his buy out clause. I think sen fans looking for scapegoat. Your team doesn’t have a dedicated igl. Get over it, Shazam rather stream than work on fixing the problem. Doesn’t help that tenz has 0 consistency. I’ve mentioned before as well, for tenz to do well, you need a good leader to keep him in check and make him play to his potential, which we all have seen. Give a good coach/igl tenz sick dapr + 2. They will be compete for top 3 na easy glap
busterD [#20]Bruh they won a master with him being the clear star of the team which even prompted the org to trigger his buy out clause. I think sen fans looking for scapegoat. Your team doesn’t have a dedicated igl. Get over it, Shazam rather stream than work on fixing the problem. Doesn’t help that tenz has 0 consistency. I’ve mentioned before as well, for tenz to do well, you need a good leader to keep him in check and make him play to his potential, which we all have seen. Give a good coach/igl tenz sick dapr + 2. They will be compete for top 3 na easy glap
Like i said the scene wasn't developed and they just won by out-aiming their opponents. On the other hand i agree shaz has his own shares of problems which make him very unlikable currently but i don't want to go deep about it. I think in general he's an okay igl and player (he does feel washed rn tho). Imo what they desperately need is an experienced coach not an ex faze player rawk-ass
armeena [#21]Like i said the scene wasn't developed and they just won by out-aiming their opponents. On the other hand i agree shaz has his own shares of problems which make him very unlikable currently but i don't want to go deep about it. I think in general he's an okay igl and player (he does feel washed rn tho). Imo what they desperately need is an experienced coach not an ex faze player rawk-ass
tenz isnt the problem, tenz needs teammates who can discipline him and put a leash on his aggro playstyle which sen are unable to do rn so thats one of the reasons sen are failing rn but i mostly think it comes down the team synergy just being bad or not how it used to be
Stream [#17]8 of 10 Games tenz not even positive
Only Trash 12yo weebs support him
capppp, tenz goes positive 8 out of 10 games actually, u literally said it the other way around LOL. Btw i think this is ballsax 2nd acc but then again even ballsax had better takes than this so idk
armeena [#21]Like i said the scene wasn't developed and they just won by out-aiming their opponents. On the other hand i agree shaz has his own shares of problems which make him very unlikable currently but i don't want to go deep about it. I think in general he's an okay igl and player (he does feel washed rn tho). Imo what they desperately need is an experienced coach not an ex faze player rawk-ass
Yeah that’s my point, the roster has the potential clearly. They need an experienced coach/igl to make this team reach it’s actual potential and not play competitive queue strats in tournaments
They're mostly failing because they lack strategic value. I understand that Shahz can't be a flashy and good mechanical player because of his role as IGL, but I don't see much strategic value that he brings compared to IGLs like FNS or Vanity. Watching them play is like watching a ranked game. Their roster has lots of potential and has the ability to be a top-tier team again but it's really obvious that they aren't as committed to studying other teams as they were in the past. I hate to join the bandwagon on Shahz but his time could be much better spent watching VODs, making starts, etc. rather than doing another 10-hour stream. It sucks to see SEN play at such a low-quality level when they really have to potential to win.
noxx [#22]tenz isnt the problem, tenz needs teammates who can discipline him and put a leash on his aggro playstyle which sen are unable to do rn so thats one of the reasons sen are failing rn but i mostly think it comes down the team synergy just being bad or not how it used to be
Say if 4 out of 5 players find it hard to coact with one player then who would you find as the problem
McLovinGG [#25]They're mostly failing because they lack strategic value. I understand that Shahz can't be a flashy and good mechanical player because of his role as IGL, but I don't see much strategic value that he brings compared to IGLs like FNS or Vanity. Watching them play is like watching a ranked game. Their roster has lots of potential and has the ability to be a top-tier team again but it's really obvious that they aren't as committed to studying other teams as they were in the past. I hate to join the bandwagon on Shahz but his time could be much better spent watching VODs, making starts, etc. rather than doing another 10-hour stream. It sucks to see SEN play at such a low-quality level when they really have to potential to win.
I think that has a lot to do with them not having a coach. And i don't expect much from rawkus either
archetype [#16]DRX also has 3 Jett mains lol. MaKo Rb and BuZz.
and DRX has choked every tourney they've been in, whats ur point? altho they are 5x better than SEN rn, sen shouldn't take notes from them lol
Has to be the dumbest takes of all the SEN takes. You say ever since he joined they had roles issues but they won 2 masters with him. What if they were just a t2 team without him who did decent in early valorant like 100T or old FaZe then just fell off and no one remembered them? There wouldn't even be these much expectations around them if TenZ weren't there.
SaltyMcNulty [#31]Has to be the dumbest takes of all the SEN takes. You say ever since he joined they had roles issues but they won 2 masters with him. What if they were just a t2 team without him who did decent in early valorant like 100T or old FaZe then just fell off and no one remembered them? There wouldn't even be these much expectations around them if TenZ weren't there.
2 masters which were very early in the game and teams weren't good enough back then. And no, they had created an okay reputation around them even before tenz and these expectations exist because they dominated everything before.
busterD [#20]Bruh they won a master with him being the clear star of the team which even prompted the org to trigger his buy out clause. I think sen fans looking for scapegoat. Your team doesn’t have a dedicated igl. Get over it, Shazam rather stream than work on fixing the problem. Doesn’t help that tenz has 0 consistency. I’ve mentioned before as well, for tenz to do well, you need a good leader to keep him in check and make him play to his potential, which we all have seen. Give a good coach/igl tenz sick dapr + 2. They will be compete for top 3 na easy glap
Agreed, Shahzam is constantly streaming ranked with his immortal ranked girlfriend which is fine, but maybe even queueing with his teammates would be slightly more beneficial than simping for his mrs all the time
armeena [#29]Present a better one then
I don't have to because the team is well above worthy of not being hated on by these bad takes by irons
armeena [#32]2 masters which were very early in the game and teams weren't good enough back then. And no, they had created an okay reputation around them even before tenz and these expectations exist because they dominated everything before.
So you are glaringly looking past their team comp in 2 masters win bc that was a long time ago but you are making argument for a comp or roster way past that!
SaltyMcNulty [#35]So you are glaringly looking past their team comp in 2 masters win bc that was a long time ago but you are making argument for a comp or roster way past that!
Never said it happened "long time ago" i said it was "early in the game" which are not equivalent to each other so the point still stands
Elso [#34]I don't have to because the team is well above worthy of not being hated on by these bad takes by irons
Just say you didn't read
armeena [#36]Never said it happened "long time ago" i said it was "early in the game" which are not equivalent to each other so the point still stands
How does your point stand ?LMAO. Mfer if that was "early in the game" then 'perfect roles' with sinatraa was even earlier! What fking roles are you talking about when there's gonna be 4/5 agents every year and there's gonna be meta agents falling out of meta. Chamber and sage are sentinels but doesn't even function the same way. so idk what tf you are talking about. They just need to adapt and be on top of things and they just couldn't, that's all?
SaltyMcNulty [#38]How does your point stand ?LMAO. Mfer if that was "early in the game" then 'perfect roles' with sinatraa was even earlier! What fking roles are you talking about when there's gonna be 4/5 agents every year and there's gonna be meta agents falling out of meta. Chamber and sage are sentinels but doesn't even function the same way. so idk what tf you are talking about. They just need to adapt and be on top of things and they just couldn't, that's all?
the team is falling apart the hate is getting to shahz's head getting more pressure tenz changing mouse ,sens mousepad desk water bottle between every map sick is on smokes LOL kanpeki is there for vibes dapr is trying his hardest to carry on an unfraggable role
broseiden [#9]right now every single player on sen prefers playing jett in ranked, even dapr
cuz jett is the most fun??? i enjoy playing jett but im best on cypher
SaltyMcNulty [#38]How does your point stand ?LMAO. Mfer if that was "early in the game" then 'perfect roles' with sinatraa was even earlier! What fking roles are you talking about when there's gonna be 4/5 agents every year and there's gonna be meta agents falling out of meta. Chamber and sage are sentinels but doesn't even function the same way. so idk what tf you are talking about. They just need to adapt and be on top of things and they just couldn't, that's all?
Yeah tenz has been very diverse with his agent picks hasn't he? And obviously its not all about the roles there are other problems as well but i chose to bring this up because its the elephant in the room. It exists in the first place because you can't main every agent and you can only diverse your agent pool so much since its hard at the pro level. Am not glorifying sentinels before tenz am just telling you how it was. They used to win almost everything before him and after him didn't bother to figure out their coordination and teamwork with a new player which basically leads us to the cesspool we see today
armeena [#41]Yeah tenz has been very diverse with his agent picks hasn't he? And obviously its not all about the roles there are other problems as well but i chose to bring this up because its the elephant in the room. It exists in the first place because you can't main every agent and you can only diverse your agent pool so much since its hard at the pro level. Am not glorifying sentinels before tenz am just telling you how it was. They used to win almost everything before him and after him didn't bother to figure out their coordination and teamwork with a new player which basically leads us to the cesspool we see today
TenZ should just instalock Yoru and Neon next match even if his IGL and coach doesn't want him to.
peppreish [#30]and DRX has choked every tourney they've been in, whats ur point? altho they are 5x better than SEN rn, sen shouldn't take notes from them lol
why not lol it's not like SEN have the choking power DRX does SEN actually won a tourney and they became famous for Lower-Bracket runs.
besides, my point was that 3 Jett mains doesn't mean the team will suck. you just got all pissed about it because you assumed I meant something other than that. chill out bruh
archetype [#45]why not lol it's not like SEN have the choking power DRX does SEN actually won a tourney and they became famous for Lower-Bracket runs.
besides, my point was that 3 Jett mains doesn't mean the team will suck. you just got all pissed about it because you assumed I meant something other than that. chill out bruh
ur saying i'm pissed after i stated a fact? LMAO i think ur projecting or smth
armeena [#21]Like i said the scene wasn't developed and they just won by out-aiming their opponents. On the other hand i agree shaz has his own shares of problems which make him very unlikable currently but i don't want to go deep about it. I think in general he's an okay igl and player (he does feel washed rn tho). Imo what they desperately need is an experienced coach not an ex faze player rawk-ass
they didnt win before just cause the game wasn´t developed yet, back then they actually had strats and set plays and everyone on the sen roster streamed way less and pracced alot. tehy prob did mainly rely on aim but tehy did actually have some proper coardination back then
I mean I wouldn't really say TenZ blocking others' roles is the main issue with Sentinels rn, it's more in their style of pro play. I haven't watched their recent games but the ones I've watched in stage 1 for masters 1, it did show me that they lacked teamwork and playing off of each others utility, something most other NA teams have started doing well (Optic, C9, V1 and Guard). Sen still plays an individual game at this point, which could be due to bad shot calling from ShahZ, but I'm not the one playing alongside him so I wouldn't know. I'm still down to give this team another chance, it's just they're lacking in the teamwork department. And they should also get a known strategic coach and analyst, one that has been doing such things for some time (IDK if Rawkus has done such things in OW so I'm a bit skeptical), it would take a lot of pressure off of ShahZ and some professional input would be helpful.
peppreish [#46]ur saying i'm pissed after i stated a fact? LMAO i think ur projecting or smth
i said it because you blatantly missed the point of my statement. idk if you're not pissed then you just lack sufficient reading comprehension. pick your poison i guess.
peppreish [#30]and DRX has choked every tourney they've been in, whats ur point? altho they are 5x better than SEN rn, sen shouldn't take notes from them lol
Most teams in the world take notes from DRX
archetype [#49]i said it because you blatantly missed the point of my statement. idk if you're not pissed then you just lack sufficient reading comprehension. pick your poison i guess.
more projection LMAO, drx having 3 jett mains has no relevance. u really gotta do better with ur education
peppreish [#52]more projection LMAO, drx having 3 jett mains has no relevance. u really gotta do better with ur education
"drx having 3 jett mains has no relevance"
...
ok you are just blind at this point. man can't even read the original comment i was replying to. cant even be consistent too lol first it was drx choking now its my comment being irrelevant lmao
ffffffff [#50]roles were fucked up because of the sinatraa problem, and because double duelist is not meta anymore, phoenix is trash.
I miss sick pheonix
archetype [#53]"drx having 3 jett mains has no relevance"
...
ok you are just blind at this point. man can't even read the original comment i was replying to. cant even be consistent too lol first it was drx choking now its my comment being irrelevant lmao
you gotta be trolling LMAO, anyone with a brain could understand that i was referring to when u said "you blatantly missed the point of my statement."
usually people with over 100 iq would understand that there can be more than one reason as to why an opinion is braindead :o not gonna bother replying after this one, but here's a summary
- drx are a one-dimensional team that cannot adapt at all in a LAN environment and have bombed out of early playoffs each lan; they are not a team to model a playstyle or structure around
- them succeeding with 3 jett mains doesn't mean anything bc SEN's players are vastly different to koreas, and SEN role adaptability is way worse (proven in past events)
you automatically assumed i was mad because i stated a fact abt ur favorite team LMAO, learn to think with objectivity
peppreish [#55]you gotta be trolling LMAO, anyone with a brain could understand that i was referring to when u said "you blatantly missed the point of my statement."
usually people with over 100 iq would understand that there can be more than one reason as to why an opinion is braindead :o not gonna bother replying after this one, but here's a summary
- drx are a one-dimensional team that cannot adapt at all in a LAN environment and have bombed out of early playoffs each lan; they are not a team to model a playstyle or structure around
- them succeeding with 3 jett mains doesn't mean anything bc SEN's players are vastly different to koreas, and SEN role adaptability is way worse (proven in past events)
you automatically assumed i was mad because i stated a fact abt ur favorite team LMAO, learn to think with objectivity
Tf, how is their inability to adapt to LAN a point here, it doesn't change the fact that they are good. Next, you were talking about roles. DRX is a perfect examples of jett mains playing other roles and doing it well, see MaKo and BuZz, who still plays jett occasionally. It also isn't an excuse that Sen's adaptability is worse considering they are pro players and it's been a longer time. Lastly, shut up if you can't even make your mind on what stand to take and just trying to cover your ass.
Mooony [#57]Tf, how is their inability to adapt to LAN a point here, it doesn't change the fact that they are good. Next, you were talking about roles. DRX is a perfect examples of jett mains playing other roles and doing it well, see MaKo and BuZz, who still plays jett occasionally. It also isn't an excuse that Sen's adaptability is worse considering they are pro players and it's been a longer time. Lastly, shut up if you can't even make your mind on what stand to take and just trying to cover your ass.
Additional reply to his first point:
DRX shouldn't be blamed as much for their "poor" showing. They were scrim partners and it is so much easier to read them, especially after zeta's sudden change in form. Yes, DRX didn't play as well but that is not to discount their finishing position and form of other teams. DRX could have potentially gotten a much higher position if they played against teams of other regions since they wouldn't understand them as well as scrim partners
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