What's up with these IGLs thinking that it's a good idea to 5 man rush a site, especially through one point of entry, against pistols? When the enemy team is on pistols, they have to take risks, such as stacking a site or playing very aggressively to take map control. This is some basic ESEA Open shit in CSGO, except it's even worse in VALORANT because on pistols, utility is still VERY good.
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Rushing sites on anti-eco
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Because the utility dump teams with an econ advantage can exec will be enough to fast take site and then immediately regress for post-plant, where teams with the better econ and guns will win.
It's better to 5 man because you can more easily trade out if you have better guns rather than risk getting picked off across the map due to off angles and trap setups.
This is probably the mindset most IGLs have when approaching a hit. Essentially it's easier to brute force against a weak setup instead of attempting surgical picks across the map. By splitting your team up you are setting yourself up to be divided and conquered. If they 5 man eco a site you better 5 man rush a site too. What if you spread out and two people get picked off by that 5 man stack? It's now 2 people with guns and a 5v3.
DRX did something really interesting to me on anti-eco vs NiP, on breeze taking A-site they actually dogged and droned at the same time, using one to clear left and one to clear right simultaneously
extremely simple yet effective way to get perfect information and prevent yourself from getting eco'd
archetype [#4]Because the utility dump teams with an econ advantage can exec will be enough to fast take site and then immediately regress for post-plant, where teams with the better econ and guns will win.
It's better to 5 man because you can more easily trade out if you have better guns rather than risk getting picked off across the map due to off angles and trap setups.
This is probably the mindset most IGLs have when approaching a hit. Essentially it's easier to brute force against a weak setup instead of attempting surgical picks across the map. By splitting your team up you are setting yourself up to be divided and conquered. If they 5 man eco a site you better 5 man rush a site too. What if you spread out and two people get picked off by that 5 man stack? It's now 2 people with guns and a 5v3.
when you're defaulting against an anti-eco, your solo/flank players are supposed to play extra safe so that whatever info/map control play you do with the majority of your players is not compromised by a flank. you also have utility to help you gain information. you dont necessarily have to put anyone at risk just to figure out the enemy's setup.
SETSUZA [#5]DRX did something really interesting to me on anti-eco vs NiP, on breeze taking A-site they actually dogged and droned at the same time, using one to clear left and one to clear right simultaneously
extremely simple yet effective way to get perfect information and prevent yourself from getting eco'd
it's not a particularly surprising or novel approach to facing an eco, it's just good presence of mind imo.
quake3arena [#6]when you're defaulting against an anti-eco, your solo/flank players are supposed to play extra safe so that whatever info/map control play you do with the majority of your players is not compromised by a flank. you also have utility to help you gain information. you dont necessarily have to put anyone at risk just to figure out the enemy's setup.
While true, you don't want to have yourself split up across the map to potentially get picked off by a 5 man eco rush too, because the first time you'll see an eco is on the 2nd round of the half - where losing even just 1 gun is not ideal.
archetype [#8]While true, you don't want to have yourself split up across the map to potentially get picked off by a 5 man eco rush too, because the first time you'll see an eco is on the 2nd round of the half - where losing even just 1 gun is not ideal.
a single player can safely watch a main or b main on ascent on attacker side. you dont have to push all the way up to the orbs. it's hard for you to get picked off if you keep your distance and jiggle/jump spot.
but if you try to 5 man B site and it turns out there are 4 people there and they have an insane KJ setup and you want to rotate, you have ZERO information because you didnt have someone safely watching the flank. you are not playing efficiently and you have to clear a bunch of new angles.
now if you spot 4 defenders pushing A or B main, you can tell your team that there can only be 1 player on the other side of the map, isnt that much safer?
another example: you are rifling on attack on bind and enemies have pistols. your default setup: 1 watch B long from behind fountain/crates, kj turret watches outside hookah. if you see 3 people pushing B long and your KJ turret activates due to someone peeking hookah, you know theres only 1 person on A. why would you take the risk of putting all 5 players at B long at the beginning?
quake3arena [#9]a single player can safely watch a main or b main on ascent on attacker side. you dont have to push all the way up to the orbs. it's hard for you to get picked off if you keep your distance and jiggle/jump spot.
but if you try to 5 man B site and it turns out there are 4 people there and they have an insane KJ setup and you want to rotate, you have ZERO information because you didnt have someone safely watching the flank. you are not playing efficiently and you have to clear a bunch of new angles.
now if you spot 4 defenders pushing A or B main, you can tell your team that there can only be 1 player on the other side of the map, isnt that much safer?
Yeah, obviously playing slow and gathering information is the best way to coordinate a push for sure. I was moreso talking on the philosophy behind actually execing on a site with 5 players vs an eco. This is when teams focus on brute forcing and cracking a site wide open through gun diff and util diff. It's a little weird to assume the enemy is going to spend money on KJ util on an eco.
it really depends on a lot of things, like map for example, rushing 5A on breeze with drone clearing everything is simple enough, but on split rushing B couldn't be closer to suicide
consider your opponents too, for example team liquid might buy 4 deagles into 2nd round and try to play mostly default to take picks, so why would you default into them there? sure you can slow default for 1 min every time but then if you see a stack on the drone when it's time to execute, you might not have time to go to the other site, or they might only stack as 4 and one guy in your back can kill 2 with shorty and then the situation is dodgy, idk it's not that simple sometimes but ofc generally fully rushing is a little weird
jade_ [#12]it really depends on a lot of things, like map for example, rushing 5A on breeze with drone clearing everything is simple enough, but on split rushing B couldn't be closer to suicide
consider your opponents too, for example team liquid might buy 4 deagles into 2nd round and try to play mostly default to take picks, so why would you default into them there? sure you can slow default for 1 min every time but then if you see a stack on the drone when it's time to execute, you might not have time to go to the other site, or they might only stack as 4 and one guy in your back can kill 2 with shorty and then the situation is dodgy, idk it's not that simple sometimes but ofc generally fully rushing is a little weird
i agree. you gotta read your opponents to some degree. and yeah rushing breeze is not a bad idea considering how hard it is to do anything with pistols. i'm mainly wondering why teams do full rushes with ZERO info on other maps. it's weird, like you said.
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