What do you think? TL and Evil geniuses were top 5 teams for a few years. Cloud9 won major
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NA better at CS than VAL?
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NA VAL has the same problems that NA CS had. Players in the scene care more about egos and reputations over winning. We can already see these problems in Valorant. NA CS has had some great teams with great players but there was only like 15-20 players that truly put all their dedication and effort into it. Imagine if it were different, the talent was there and same with the org support. But orgs left when time after time players and teams failed to produce results. Same players just cycling between rosters hoping one will work. I think it’s mainly the mindsets. Level of competition in CS is another level as well.
Why waste money on a NA team when you can buy EU players knowing they put their full effort into it. I think it’s too early to tell but NA teams seems to be good in their own region but once it comes to international play. It is another story.
Sorry I made this longer than I initially wanted to.
Larry [#3]NA VAL has the same problems that NA CS had. Players in the scene care more about egos and reputations over winning. We can already see these problems in Valorant. NA CS has had some great teams with great players but there was only like 15-20 players that truly put all their dedication and effort into it. Imagine if it were different, the talent was there and same with the org support. But orgs left when time after time players and teams failed to produce results. Same players just cycling between rosters hoping one will work. I think it’s mainly the mindsets. Level of competition in CS is another level as well.
Why waste money on a NA team when you can buy EU players knowing they put their full effort into it. I think it’s too early to tell but NA teams seems to be good in their own region but once it comes to international play. It is another story.
Sorry I made this longer than I initially wanted to.
+1 the whole twitch popularity in NA is a big detriment to the pro scene. Twitch pays more and people feed off of their ego worshippers on twitch. This partly results in the bigger overarching goal in NA Val is becoming the top tier fragger, while in EU there are more good "support" players that just play for the team and don't care as much for their stats. Your Xyp9x type player.
Of course this is a huge generalization but it boils down to this in the end. in EU CS you can list so many great support players and we're seeing this come up in EU valorant as well, while it is much harder to do so in NA CS and NA Val
edelhose1337 [#6]do they stream as much as in valorant?
in valorant the NA leaderboard top 100 is full with tier 1 pros, while in EU the leaderboard top 100 is full with tier 2 pros.
thats cause most of the tier 1 pros of EU scrim and practice a lot while NA tier 1 players just stream ranked games on twitch
valulrantefanboy [#2]TL always top team in CS, they just lost motivation I think. EG don't know, fall behind after Ethan left. But only 2 good teams not good enough
I didn't pay much attention to EG, but from what I've seen they were doing well. I only watch astralis and EG were pretty good against them, I wonder why did ethan leave
Sem1- [#8]I didn't pay much attention to EG, but from what I've seen they were doing well. I only watch astralis and EG were pretty good against them, I wonder why did ethan leave
RL said that Ethan played too much Valorant at the time when he was still in EG ( no wonder he played like shit at that time), I thinkg both him and Tarik lost motivation for the game. And with rumor Brehze trailed for 100T, I think whole EG roster just didn't wanna play/compete in CS anm
NA pros prefer to stream ranked games insteadf of grinding scrims, also too many egos, this is the reason NA CS had so many failures, players that sacrificed themselves were rare but they were always in top teams(RUSH, Stewie2k to a certain extent, Daps, fUgly), just like in CS na needs more supportive players and a better work ethic, less hours on twitch and more in scrims versus top tier opposition, there's a reason why top pros in eu arent in ranked leaderboard, its because they are too busy scrimming all day, leaving the ladder to t2 players like Kadavra, AslanMashadow, Cender and other players that grind the ladder to prove themselves.
In NA I always see Asuna and other pros online streaming, no hate towards him but shouldnt he be praccing with his full team against other full teams instead of pugging?
DaDoar [#10]NA pros prefer to stream ranked games insteadf of grinding scrims, also too many egos, this is the reason NA CS had so many failures, players that sacrificed themselves were rare but they were always in top teams(RUSH, Stewie2k to a certain extent, Daps, fUgly), just like in CS na needs more supportive players and a better work ethic, less hours on twitch and more in scrims versus top tier opposition, there's a reason why top pros in eu arent in ranked leaderboard, its because they are too busy scrimming all day, leaving the ladder to t2 players like Kadavra, AslanMashadow, Cender and other players that grind the ladder to prove themselves.
In NA I always see Asuna and other pros online streaming, no hate towards him but shouldnt he be praccing with his full team against other full teams instead of pugging?
Taking Sen for ex. , when they were in berlin itself. The amount of hours they Shahz n other members streamed like its not bad thing to relax your mind a bit through streaming ranked with ur friends and chill but what concerns me is the amount of hours they stream .
DaDoar [#10]NA pros prefer to stream ranked games insteadf of grinding scrims, also too many egos, this is the reason NA CS had so many failures, players that sacrificed themselves were rare but they were always in top teams(RUSH, Stewie2k to a certain extent, Daps, fUgly), just like in CS na needs more supportive players and a better work ethic, less hours on twitch and more in scrims versus top tier opposition, there's a reason why top pros in eu arent in ranked leaderboard, its because they are too busy scrimming all day, leaving the ladder to t2 players like Kadavra, AslanMashadow, Cender and other players that grind the ladder to prove themselves.
In NA I always see Asuna and other pros online streaming, no hate towards him but shouldnt he be praccing with his full team against other full teams instead of pugging?
Bro cender and Kadavra are bad examples. They are fucking good
NA is terrible at both, I would say that they are better at Valorant than CS. Over this past year, NA teams made it to finals in 2/3 international lans. On the other hand, NA has been shockingly bad in CS. Admittedly, their CS scene is bound to improve with roster changes and players returning from Valorant. Whereas I cannot imagine NA performing as well in 2022 for Valorant as they had in 2021.
Astralis_6_majors [#18]EG was the biggest fluke in cs after cloud9
astralis this is the one time i disagree, since we beat u on multilple occasions. eg fell off after online + ethan left, ethan was a big part of the cerq brehze ethan core and imo they lost motivation, but we weren't a fluke lmao
is there any purpose in comparing? NA CS' peak was very high considering Liquid was legit a top 5 team during the Astralis era. You can't say the same in Valorant when the competitive scene is still not developed when the top teams barely play each other so we don't really know who's gonna win at a given point in time.
arT_fan [#20]is there any purpose in comparing? NA CS' peak was very high considering Liquid was legit a top 5 team during the Astralis era. You can't say the same in Valorant when the competitive scene is still not developed when the top teams barely play each other so we don't really know who's gonna win at a given point in time.
TL was a top 2 team during astralis era, literally #2 at every fkn event, hurts to be TL fan
kapteN [#5]+1 the whole twitch popularity in NA is a big detriment to the pro scene. Twitch pays more and people feed off of their ego worshippers on twitch. This partly results in the bigger overarching goal in NA Val is becoming the top tier fragger, while in EU there are more good "support" players that just play for the team and don't care as much for their stats. Your Xyp9x type player.
Of course this is a huge generalization but it boils down to this in the end. in EU CS you can list so many great support players and we're seeing this come up in EU valorant as well, while it is much harder to do so in NA CS and NA Val
although i highly agree with you, i feel like it has more to do with a build up ego (not for everyone, of course) than with money.
while it is true that these players make a lotta money through streaming i would say it is not enough for them to just stop focusing on pro level, i would say is just being intoxicated with this streaming/pro status fame they build thanks to some succesful tournaments and their streams that makes them just lose focus on keeping themselves up to form to perform against other teams/regions.
it would be a little naive to think that just because someone's born in NA or in SA or wherever else they just instantly become worse than some random kid being born in EMEA or wherever else, mostly the mindset that goes around from player to player in those regions is what truly intoxicates the whole scene and makes most of these NA situations just fall short from being the very best or at least big contenders for most or every other title out there
valulrantefanboy [#2]TL always top team in CS, they just lost motivation I think. EG don't know, fall behind after Ethan left. But only 2 good teams not good enough
They were doing bad even with Ethan in the team. Even NA scene became almost empty they were managing to lose to t2 NA teams and it looked like no one had motivation to play. I guess that mental health of players were bad for some reason but no one knows except players and people around them
Will2Kill [#17]i blame nitr0 man...the amount of trophies they won at team liquid and then 1st team ever to win a grand slam in a couple of months. Then one bad run at the major and he decided to switch to Val...like wtf. Since then team liquid is history.
Not really. nitr0 switched cuz he was about to get kicked from Liquid and most of the big orgs stepped down from CS. So Valorant was the only option for him to get a decent salary. It was probably like 50-60% from his TL times but it was much better than go to orgless t2 teams
buldO [#22]although i highly agree with you, i feel like it has more to do with a build up ego (not for everyone, of course) than with money.
while it is true that these players make a lotta money through streaming i would say it is not enough for them to just stop focusing on pro level, i would say is just being intoxicated with this streaming/pro status fame they build thanks to some succesful tournaments and their streams that makes them just lose focus on keeping themselves up to form to perform against other teams/regions.
it would be a little naive to think that just because someone's born in NA or in SA or wherever else they just instantly become worse than some random kid being born in EMEA or wherever else, mostly the mindset that goes around from player to player in those regions is what truly intoxicates the whole scene and makes most of these NA situations just fall short from being the very best or at least big contenders for most or every other title out there
Thanks for the extra nuance, that's exactly what I was referring to. If anything, I feel like NA has better "mechanical talents" than EU at the moment right now, better individual skill. It's the mindset that seems to make the biggest difference here.
most_mens_guy [#25]Not really. nitr0 switched cuz he was about to get kicked from Liquid and most of the big orgs stepped down from CS. So Valorant was the only option for him to get a decent salary. It was probably like 50-60% from his TL times but it was much better than go to orgless t2 teams
why the hell an IGL would be kicked after 1 bad run at the major then i would blame team liquid as an org...like wtf. I would respect it more if he didn't wanted to travel EU as much during covid times so he simply decided to switch to a game where he can stay in NA and compete.
Will2Kill [#27]why the hell an IGL would be kicked after 1 bad run at the major then i would blame team liquid as an org...like wtf. I would respect it more if he didn't wanted to travel EU as much during covid times so he simply decided to switch to a game where he can stay in NA and compete.
He was their main AWPer who was doing bad for quite a long time. So it's absolutely alright. Why the hell they should keep an awful AWPer who struggle against t2 NA snipers lol
kapteN [#26]Thanks for the extra nuance, that's exactly what I was referring to. If anything, I feel like NA has better "mechanical talents" than EU at the moment right now, better individual skill. It's the mindset that seems to make the biggest difference here.
I completely agree with all of that.
kapteN [#5]+1 the whole twitch popularity in NA is a big detriment to the pro scene. Twitch pays more and people feed off of their ego worshippers on twitch. This partly results in the bigger overarching goal in NA Val is becoming the top tier fragger, while in EU there are more good "support" players that just play for the team and don't care as much for their stats. Your Xyp9x type player.
Of course this is a huge generalization but it boils down to this in the end. in EU CS you can list so many great support players and we're seeing this come up in EU valorant as well, while it is much harder to do so in NA CS and NA Val
Sorry for the late reply, I went to bed after the post. I agree with you. I think people don’t realize, specifically NA players in Val. You can’t full time stream and be a pro at the same time. It will never work if you are trying to have results. Sure you might make a boat load of money with stream money + your monthly contract but it comes to would you rather win or make money and stream. Look at csgo, the top players in all regions hardly stream, it is mostly during the player break. they stream when they can. In Valorant, these NA pros are streaming it seems like all day or all night. Look at the jarso videos. 90% of it is NA Valorant pros.
Going back to just the mindsets. As someone who is from NA, I think the egos and reputations like I said have the biggest impact. Money does as well. Professional cs players in t1-t2 treat cs like it’s their job, because it is a job. Seems like NA VAL treats it like “yeah I’m good at the game, I’m pro, look at my following, stream, twitter followers, and how much money I make.” Obviously exaggerating a bit but you get the point. EU VAL and other regions seem to do the same. I remember L1nk on liquid saying that NA wants to stream, EU wants to win. And he is right.
zerosh1ma [#19]astralis this is the one time i disagree, since we beat u on multilple occasions. eg fell off after online + ethan left, ethan was a big part of the cerq brehze ethan core and imo they lost motivation, but we weren't a fluke lmao
Dude the fluke lated from the major until new york, after that they where gone! poof!
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