ok lets just debunk this

this whole "fuck franchising" and "bring back open qualifiers".

isn't this ascension format the best non fluke/"fraudulent" way to decide teams, open qualifiers is single elim and m80 wouldn't have even sniffed the GF of ascension, also 2G beat them TWICE, theres no such thing as FLUKE my guy. Also the reason M80 didn't make franchising was because someone else was better and deserved it more, it would have ended the same way if m80 played in open qualifiers and lost to some random team like "give chamber 3 wives".

please stop acting like riot is the reason m80 lost or didn't make T1.

Open qualifiers had a lower bracket
Wdym by single elim

SXNFLGJL [#2]

Open qualifiers had a lower bracket
Wdym by single elim

to get into the challengers playoffs i believe, you had to play some games before that which was single elim i think

I feel like the biggest problem people have with tier 1 is the fact that next year you can have one team go 0-11 and the other go 5-6 yet the one getting booted is the 5-6 one. That's the main issue. While some teams NEED to get results every year, teams like mibr can just suck dicks for 4 years without any threat of getting booted

Nef0r0 [#4]

I feel like the biggest problem people have with tier 1 is the fact that next year you can have one team go 0-11 and the other go 5-6 yet the one getting booted is the 5-6 one. That's the main issue. While some teams NEED to get results every year, teams like mibr can just suck dicks for 4 years without any threat of getting booted

that which i agree is bullshit, there should be relegation and promotion but since riot has franchising staples its kinda fucked

kalayav_n [#5]

that which i agree is bullshit, there should be relegation and promotion but since riot has franchising staples its kinda fucked

well franchising with relegation isn't franchising, it's just a league format like football (the european one). I feel like Ascension format as an event good, the problem I have is that the teams which didn't make it have no incentive to stick around.

kalayav_n [#3]

to get into the challengers playoffs i believe, you had to play some games before that which was single elim i think

you're right, the first games were single elim and some of them were even md1, the double bracket thing was only after alot of games. (of course, this dont happen if your team is already on the close qualifiers)

Nef0r0 [#6]

well franchising with relegation isn't franchising, it's just a league format like football (the european one). I feel like Ascension format as an event good, the problem I have is that the teams which didn't make it have no incentive to stick around.

sorry wrong use of the word franchising but what i mean is like if a team is 0-11 theres no way they stay ahead of a 5-6 ascension team thats just bullshit, it should be league format

Crazyfire [#7]

you're right, the first games were single elim and some of them were even md1, the double bracket thing was only after alot of games. (of course, this dont happen if your team is already on the close qualifiers)

yeah which would be even worse for m80 cuz they can lose to literally 5 duelists on ascent with no map 2 or 3 and jus be out like that, so blame m80's performance before you blame riot

Nef0r0 [#6]

well franchising with relegation isn't franchising, it's just a league format like football (the european one). I feel like Ascension format as an event good, the problem I have is that the teams which didn't make it have no incentive to stick around.

it should have some way to tier 2 teams go to masters or champions, like a slot on LCQ's or something like this

Nef0r0 [#4]

I feel like the biggest problem people have with tier 1 is the fact that next year you can have one team go 0-11 and the other go 5-6 yet the one getting booted is the 5-6 one. That's the main issue. While some teams NEED to get results every year, teams like mibr can just suck dicks for 4 years without any threat of getting booted

It sucks but Riot do assess the partnered teams every once in a while and I believe they plan to do so after 2027. Not really that close but at least they do it. It sucks we have some bad teams but it’s less about the in game performance and orgs who riot think will represent them well. It is what it is ig. I think a lot of people really underrate the level of the bad tier 1 teams tho. Mibr are pretty bad but the majority of tier 2 teams would not make the set up the way g2 did

kalayav_n [#8]

sorry wrong use of the word franchising but what i mean is like if a team is 0-11 theres no way they stay ahead of a 5-6 ascension team thats just bullshit, it should be league format

well that just disables the whole point of franchising. I think that riot took a look at american sport leagues before making franchising, closed league (limited to 12 teams) with 10 of them being constant.

Crazyfire [#10]

it should have some way to tier 2 teams go to masters or champions, like a slot on LCQ's or something like this

I have thought of tier 2 starting earlier for top 4 of each stage in tier 2 to attend the tier 1 league. (making it a 16 team league for that split).

Nef0r0 [#12]

well that just disables the whole point of franchising. I think that riot took a look at american sport leagues before making franchising, closed league (limited to 12 teams) with 10 of them being constant.

yeah sucks ig but franchising is much way better than league format for the basis of the esport right now though

Magmoz [#11]

It sucks but Riot do assess the partnered teams every once in a while and I believe they plan to do so after 2027. Not really that close but at least they do it. It sucks we have some bad teams but it’s less about the in game performance and orgs who riot think will represent them well. It is what it is ig. I think a lot of people really underrate the level of the bad tier 1 teams tho. Mibr are pretty bad but the majority of tier 2 teams would not make the set up the way g2 did

thats good, hopefully it becomes more competitive than seeing all the same teams winning yk

Magmoz [#11]

It sucks but Riot do assess the partnered teams every once in a while and I believe they plan to do so after 2027. Not really that close but at least they do it. It sucks we have some bad teams but it’s less about the in game performance and orgs who riot think will represent them well. It is what it is ig. I think a lot of people really underrate the level of the bad tier 1 teams tho. Mibr are pretty bad but the majority of tier 2 teams would not make the set up the way g2 did

since after franchising started:
nrg needed chet to take a pay cut to afford demon1 and ethan
eg literally disbanded the entire champs roster cuz they didn't want to pay them
mibr spent the money from vct on CS
loud are now struggling finanically
sentinels needed 3.8million in cash injections
c9 are working on a budget
100t nadeshot says that they would not enter esports if they started from scratch
7/10 american franchised teams having some sorta financial problem is wild

kalayav_n [#14]

yeah sucks ig but franchising is much way better than league format for the basis of the esport right now though

I still kinda feel like an open circuit with a lot of events and bundle sales is great as well

if people are complaining about the worse team ascending, its simply a skill issue

m80 lost twice, its their fault they lost not the format

kalayav_n [#9]

yeah which would be even worse for m80 cuz they can lose to literally 5 duelists on ascent with no map 2 or 3 and jus be out like that, so blame m80's performance before you blame riot

Im brasilian, so if theres a thing i'll never do is blame m80's performance hahahaha

Crazyfire [#19]

Im brasilian, so if theres a thing i'll never do is blame m80's performance hahahaha

and i really like the g2 players, so im glad m80 lost in both ascensions runs, anyways, i wish the players found a way to franchise next season, they did very well.

Nef0r0 [#16]

since after franchising started:
nrg needed chet to take a pay cut to afford demon1 and ethan
eg literally disbanded the entire champs roster cuz they didn't want to pay them
mibr spent the money from vct on CS
loud are now struggling finanically
sentinels needed 3.8million in cash injections
c9 are working on a budget
100t nadeshot says that they would not enter esports if they started from scratch
7/10 american franchised teams having some sorta financial problem is wild

Who are the 3 “safe” ones?

cohnr [#18]

if people are complaining about the worse team ascending, its simply a skill issue

m80 lost twice, its their fault they lost not the format

ON GOD PREACH

Nef0r0 [#13]

I have thought of tier 2 starting earlier for top 4 of each stage in tier 2 to attend the tier 1 league. (making it a 16 team league for that split).

Idk if riot would like this ideia, i think if they ever gave a slot for tier2 teams other than ascension would be something like the play-in stage for LOL Worlds, putting the seed 1 for each tier 2 league against the last seed of the franchises leagues.

Nef0r0 [#4]

I feel like the biggest problem people have with tier 1 is the fact that next year you can have one team go 0-11 and the other go 5-6 yet the one getting booted is the 5-6 one. That's the main issue. While some teams NEED to get results every year, teams like mibr can just suck dicks for 4 years without any threat of getting booted

Yes but you talk seem to neglect why that is the case

Imagine we had relegation last year. KC and TH would be on tier 2 and we would instead have Apeks or Acend with mid ass rosters and the total amount of 15 fans (the players and their families). The level of a team fluctuates, specially when you give them stability and freedom that allows TH to do a risky project like they have this year

A KC vs KOI will always be a banger no matter how bad those teams are, an Apeks vs Acend, won't

catNmouse [#21]

Who are the 3 “safe” ones?

well afaik, mibr, lev and kru

Crazyfire [#23]

Idk if riot would like this ideia, i think if they ever gave a slot for tier2 teams other than ascension would be something like the play-in stage for LOL Worlds, putting the seed 1 for each tier 2 league against the last seed of the franchises leagues.

kinda sad ngl

Mortadelo [#24]

Yes but you talk seem to neglect why that is the case

Imagine we had relegation last year. KC and TH would be on tier 2 and we would instead have Apeks or Acend with mid ass rosters and the total amount of 15 fans (the players and their families). The level of a team fluctuates, specially when you give them stability and freedom that allows TH to do a risky project like they have this year

A KC vs KOI will always be a banger no matter how bad those teams are, an Apeks vs Acend, won't

becuase those teams have responsible managements, teams like mibr tho .........

Nef0r0 [#26]

kinda sad ngl

for sure, it would be great if riot do a thing like your ideia, sadly they will only change the formart if the audience get lower.

Nef0r0 [#27]

becuase those teams have responsible managements, teams like mibr tho .........

Exactly why this time, unlike in LOL, Riot kept for themselves a way of kicking out MIBR. Unfortunately it takes time to get properly stablished, and patience is not really a common quality around here xD

The thing I do agree with is probably 4 years is a bit too long

Mortadelo [#29]

Exactly why this time, unlike in LOL, Riot kept for themselves a way of kicking out MIBR. Unfortunately it takes time to get properly stablished, and patience is not really a common quality around here xD

The thing I do agree with is probably 4 years is a bit too long

I would shorten it to 3.

Nef0r0 [#30]

I would shorten it to 3.

I agree, I think 3 is the perfect amount. This year for example would be the last chance for MIBR

Nef0r0 [#25]

well afaik, mibr, lev and kru

mibr you already mentioned is spending the money on cs and having a dogshit team
lev ig are doing okay
kru of course they're doing okay bruh they have messi 💀

nobody___100 [#32]

mibr you already mentioned is spending the money on cs and having a dogshit team
lev ig are doing okay
kru of course they're doing okay bruh they have messi 💀

he prob meant Furia

Liwus [#33]

he prob meant Furia

yeah :D

Nef0r0 [#34]

yeah :D

since g2 is from ascension would you include them being “safe” with the 3 teams you mentioned?

catNmouse [#35]

since g2 is from ascension would you include them being “safe” with the 3 teams you mentioned?

their position is not safe thanks to the entire ascension slot thing

the problem is that riot is not consistent with it's rulings. First they say teams will get guaranteed 2 year slots and then changed to 1 year+performance based which essentially means ascended teams have to burn more money that they alreay do to stay. Also, T2 is run by 3rd party TOs like in vcl east who havn't paid any money to the teams. this was probably the last year we see any proper orgs in T2.

I prefer open circuit because then these "no name" teams can randomly show up and kick ass. Thats what the guard did initially and we wouldn't have to watch teams like MIBR, KOI, M8, BLEED, DFM just shit the bed constantly.

Also relegation should be for every team not ascension only if EVERY org had a chance of making T1, there would be so much more investment into the scene and trying to build a strong team

M80 lost bc they got diff'd and hard anti'd