modern day cancel culture

#1

zhongZHI

this thing with DRX well made me think a bit.

i see that some people already believe hes guilty just based of her words without evidence and it got me thinking. what if hes innocent. even if he proves it this gonna be a huge shadow over him for the rest of his life. what might be baseless accusations at a really weird time could ruin DRX. and it made me think how easily we just judge someone cuz what someone said. like theres lit no evidence other than what she said rn

if hes guilty ofc different story. fuck that guy if hes guilty. but why have people already thought he is

#2

IonlywatchvcjXD

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I feel the same tbh, sometimes when I look at allegations about sexual harassment or similar subjects , I'm becoming quite reluctant to make friends with girls just because who the fuck knows if they suddenly pin me down for something that I never do.

Edit: my dear brothers out there , I said RELUCTANT not REFUSE ok 😅. I don't mind making friends with girls I'm just starting to think twice whenever I'm about to. I'm not trying to spread some incel shit you know

#34

zombzino

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I understand the message you were trying to convey but aint no way you dont want to become friends with literally half the planet because of this 💀. its literally the smallest minority (0.001% of like 4 billion people).

men do way worse things to women statistically and im sure you would feel disgusting if a girl told you she didnt want to be friends with you in the fear that you would do something to her

#44

anDr_xxx

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Nah but you're right. All my girl friends fear men but none of my guy friends fear women (except their mums maybe). I know multiple women having been SA'ed before and zero men being falsely accused.

There is an issue w cancel culture for sure, like people don't know how to separate believing victims and bashing the perpetrator from each other, but it's been a while since I've seen such a crazy conclusion drawn from that idea ngl

#48

zombzino

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i appreciate you commenting this because i was genuinely appalled by the conclusion this guy drew from the situation lmfao.

#49

IonlywatchvcjXD

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If girls can be reluctant on making friends with guys , I dont see why we shouldn't be just as reluctant as them. When you see this kind of news it should be normal to get that reaction, like I said It's RELUCTANT not REFUSE.

#54

zombzino

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the amount of crimes that guys do to girls, in any scenario (including friendship, relationship and just random people on the street) is statistically MUCH higher than for a girl to false accuse a guy.

it doesnt make sense to treat it equally since proportionally a woman is statistically more valid to be afraid of a guy in a situation like this.

like the dude said earlier, imagine how many girls you know or your family knows or mutual friends or anyone who have had a negative sexual situation with a guy (i guarantee it will be above zero if you talk to enough people)

the amount of guys you probably know who have been false accused is 100% lower than this number, and lower substantially as well.

#56

IonlywatchvcjXD

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So you're saying if the number didn't exist then the girls shouldn't be as wary as they are rn?

That numbers might answer their wariness , but that doesn't mean we shouldn't be too. It's called just to be safe.

You don't wanna end up as that 1% who got falsely accused do you?I'm sure everyone felt the same way.

#61

zombzino

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There are two types of evidence here that we can use:

The first, statistical evidence, which backs up the statement that women tend to get SA'd more than men get falsely accused (By a large margin). However, this is largely irrelevant for the day to day activity of an average person, since they tend to rely more on experiences.

However, the more relevant type of evidence for the day to day person is empirical evidence (evidence gathered from past experiences). Things are more likely to resonate with people when it has happened to themselves or someone close to them, which is why they largely ignore the statistical evidence.

Now, if I were to ask you how many people you know in your life that have been sexually assaulted by men, I would assume you could give a few names (if not, then mutual friends of those people).

if you did not have twitter, how many times have people you known been falsely accused by women? Twitter is obviously a platform that puts events like these on the frontpage, making them seem much more common than in reality.

If you don't want to think about it statistically, you can simply just ask the people in your life and see how many people it's happened to.

#63

IonlywatchvcjXD

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Sry, you don't get my point do you? I'm saying that there's no harm in keeping ourselves safe.

Do you actually have to wait till the statistics said otherwise just so you can be more attentive?

Why are we even questioning about wanting to keep ourselves safe? I'm not waiting for some data to tell me what to do for myself, I'm not pulling that 1% gacha just to see my life turns to shit .

It's never about the numbers . If I want to keep myself safe then no amount of numbers will convince me not to.

#64

zombzino

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If you genuinely think you have a risk in become friends with women in your life then go for it man. I'm not sure if you are young or just naive in the world, but it works very different than it does online, and I promise you if you stop looking at things like this on twitter you will almost never have an experience with a false accuser in your life.

I'm not here to stop you or anything like that, I was just pointing out that your logic from a statistical standpoint doesn't make sense, and the fear is irrational. However, if you truly believe it's a problem then give in to it then.

continue thread →

#68

Sikul

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You could say the same about man raping another man, do you want to avoid men too?

continue thread →

#36

anDr_xxx

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Negativity bias in the media is a thing, so you will often hear the few cases of false accusations being reported in the media while the actual many cases of SA get underreported as they still are today. If you're worried about making girl-friends that falsely accuse you, I would suggest u take a good look at where you're making all these friends or what kind of friends you're even making in the first place, lol. You'd have to make some crazy delulu friends for you to be falsely accused of SA by them honestly - like, what would any sane person even get out of that?

Chill, bro. You're good.

#37

sheahhhh

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10 upvotes for the most braindead shit ive ever heard is crazy

#45

IonlywatchvcjXD

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my dear brothers out there , I said RELUCTANT not REFUSE ok 😅. I don't mind making friends with girls I'm just starting to think twice whenever I'm about to.

#66

NUMBER1_LEVIATHANFAN

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I hope they think twice before getting 100 meters near you

#70

GreyDaze

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How tf did so many ppl upvote this shit

#3

Seo_w

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I really feel like dragging this for so long makes me think (and hope) these accusations are just false, I really feel like DRX not posting a statement is more of them investigating 100% for actual evidence, rather than defending/shielding him and they can't find enough evidence? The timing of the allegations compared the when the actual alleged incident took place is also quite interesting.

overall terrible situation, hope it's false for the sake of both parties

#5

zhongZHI

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i genuinely think DRX mightve been left in the dark in all of this

#8

Seo_w

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I really hope it's more just DRX investigating and trying to find a concrete evidence and not being able to find anything, rather than shielding him like everyone keep saying, just the whole timing of the allegations gives me thought that it is probably false

#6

IonlywatchvcjXD

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Unfortunately the moment she spoke to public, there's no more "for the sake of both parties" , it's either her facing the law or drx having to cut members😔

#9

Seo_w

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As for the sake of both parties I mean I hope its false because then there is no SA and also then nothing serious will come, SA is very terrible and it's much worse than any defamation lawsuits

#26

arin2016

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"Innocent until proven guilty" is a thing that could have easily worked, but can't because of the terrible law enforcement in both Korea and Japan. Because of the borderline insane defamation laws, victims can't even properly speak up, which inclines the general public to side with the victim. But that also leads to some people abusing that privilege for their personal vendetta.

TLDR; the root cause of the problem is the terrible criminal law system and the lazy law enforcement/judiciary. Again, both Japan and Korea have notoriously bad judiciary and both countries follow the "guilty until proven innocent" stance, which should not be allowed in any country ever.

#4

KKKKaren

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link?

#7

zhongZHI

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go search on twitter and here. most people already think hes guilty

#10

KKKKaren

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i found it but cant find who is he

#11

Dybala21

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Sinatraa flashback

#71

unilarity

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i see what you did there

#12

IonlywatchvcjXD

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Guys , I should have asked this from the start , how do you even search for evidence on SA case?

#13

zhongZHI

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genetic evidence ig or cctv footage around where they were said to have been to do the deed ig.

#14

nobody___100

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how stupid do you have to be to fuck in front of a cctv

#16

IonlywatchvcjXD

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😭🤣🤣 cctv on the streets , on the halls of hotel , on the hotel entrance????

This is not hidden camera buddy

#17

nobody___100

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why are you fucking on the streets, in the halls of a hotel, or hotel entrance? just do it in the hotel room

#18

IonlywatchvcjXD

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Brother never watch movies 😭😭 all the places I mentioned are where both of them will be at before entering the room 😭😭😭😭

First you need to confirm that both of them are seen walking on the streets , met at the entrance of a hotel, walking across the hall then end up in the same room.

It doesn't always has to be this scenario , what matters is BOTH OF THEM ARE IN THE SAME ROOM and the cctvs will prove that.

#19

zhongZHI

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i meant of them going into the actual place. also yk korean hotels ahve a problem with hidden cameras right?

#15

IonlywatchvcjXD

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Bro how are they going to get this without getting the police involved?

#20

ash_knuckles

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the police should be involved,that's how SA cases are supposed to handled. Immediate police investigation culminating in legal statements, not fucking retards crying on twitter tryna rally a mob

#21

WhoseTao

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Its supposed to be innocent until proven guilty, but unfortunately too many times they have not been innocent, which leads to many just jumping the gun and calling it pattern recognition, when the only pattern they have to go off is gender, sex, color, and not things that actually matter like upbringing, social circle, and so on.

#22

zhongZHI

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like ik this is a problem in some countries like falsing accusing people of rape which ruins peoples lives

#24

WhoseTao

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Yea, the system cannot remove the social stigma. Honestly, it should not take DRX this long to find ways to not prove his innocence so I dont understand why nothing has been said.

#25

IonlywatchvcjXD

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I think they are waiting for the official statement from the police, Drx is in a really tight spot rn, Say something too soon and they will flame you for trying to protect that guy.

#27

WhoseTao

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Hmm then this could genuinely take time and DRX might actually need a substitution

#28

IonlywatchvcjXD

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That's where the roster lock comes in , if drx get someone as a sub even when that guy is still on the team then we got him, but if they don't get anyone it could mean drx really believe in that guy or the police are making a progress, this could get fans to calm down a bit.

That's why I ultimately said just wait for the roster lock date to pass.

#29

WhoseTao

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I guess we will come back to this in 24ish hours, hope its just a false alarm, the guys 18 year olds, I wouldnt want him sabotaging his career, but if he really did it, then I hope he gets a fair punishment.

#23

ash_knuckles

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The cancel culture mob might be the dumbest phase of the internet I ever went through, not surprised an overcorrection is happening now.

#30

StutterSt3p

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This isn't a product of cancel culture though. It's a product of people trying to make it safer for women to come forward after being sexually assaulted or harassed. I don't think the point is to automatically assume wrongdoing on the part of the accused, but sometimes it looks that way when there's little evidence to back up the claims.

The thing people don't seem to get is that false accusations really don't happen that much, especially in comparison with how many sexual assaults go unreported. You're only going to see what gets attention and false accusations get attention, but there's so much shit that happens that people aren't aware of.

#31

IonlywatchvcjXD

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It's both the byproduct of trying to make a safer space for women and the byproduct of cancel culture.

False accusations can ruin your life , that's the point , it's not about who has it worse, the falsely accused or the one who got raped.

#35

StutterSt3p

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I don't think it really has to do with cancel culture. I just think it's that people have gotten much more sensitive to sexual assault and harassment towards women.

Also, sure false accusations are messed up, but I never said they weren't. It's they happen rarely, and that the number of women who never speak up about their assault is vastly higher than the number of false accusations.

#39

IonlywatchvcjXD

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Cancel culture was meant to "cancel" out those who society has deemed guilty. No matter what the truth might be.

I almost got the feeling that you're trying to downplay the impact of False accusations, so mb 😅

#57

StutterSt3p

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I just always associate cancel culture with a small subjection of the internet that either overreacts or just wants to fuck with people. I don't consider it to be this massive movement that a lot of people do. 90% of what people claim cancel culture is, is just them getting flack for questionable behavior.

And I wasn't trying to downplay false accusations. I just think people don't really understand how bad the sexual assault and harassment problem still is. It's partly because people bring up false accusations every time a woman comes forward with little evidence. It does kind of control the narrative, unfortunately.

#67

RadioactiveShot

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Yeah it's ironic because just like how the minority % of people actually take cancelling very far dominate a large % of twitter algorithms and conversation, the minority % of false accusations dominate a large % of twitter algorithms and conversation. The engagement driving algorithms just enjoy rage bait sadly.

#32

zhongZHI

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yea but it does happen. at least where i am from it used to be a big issue. i get the arguement that you rather believe a potential liar then a potential rapist but fulling believing either could ruin their lives and before any official announcement we shouldnt really point fingers

#41

StutterSt3p

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Idk much about gender dynamics in places outside the US, so that's there. The point though isn't about believing without evidence as it is not believing due to a lack of evidence. It's difficult to tow that line though, but on some level, it's kind of necessary since it often takes time before women feel comfortable coming out about their experiences.

#33

WhoseTao

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I agree with this, but I dont like downplaying false allegations, as they are somewhat not uncommon with celebrities or pro. Like the Neymar case.

#50

StutterSt3p

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I'm not downplaying false accusations though. And sure, you'll one every now and then with celebrities because some sick girl wants to try to make some money or ruin a famous person's life, but most women aren't like that.

#52

WhoseTao

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Yea I agree, I just think its something worth considering especially in this case, not as much in general, more so in this case.

#59

StutterSt3p

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I don't really know much about this case I'll be honest, but it's also difficult since we don't know who the accusation is on. Like if it is Flashback, surely by now he'd comment on it saying he didn't do it.

#60

WhoseTao

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it 100% leans towards him, but he may not comment on it for many reasons. DRX could be stopping him, legal advisors could be stopping him, him knowing he is guilty could be stopping him. Hard to pin one down, and if a response ever comes, it will most likely come through DRX and not him, as in a statement written by "him" posted through the official DRX Val account I think.

#62

StutterSt3p

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The thing is though, as we've discussed already getting falsely accused of sexual assault is serious. If you're the one accused, you'd want the air to be cleared immediately, and if you're the org you'd want the same thing. The longer this goes on, the more guilty it makes them look.

#38

zhongZHI

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i literally just got called out for saying that it might not be true and we shouldnt point fingers. twitter users really at cancer
https://x.com/auntymarrie/status/1816386889722794429

like what did i say wrong

#40

WhoseTao

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Lol they are comparing of whether to believe a potential liar or a potential rapist when they should just be believing in nothing as there is no concrete evidence yet. Though I do understand why they lean towards the potential liar side.

#42

zhongZHI

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ofc id rather believe a potential liar but like everyone acting like she couldnt have just lied

#46

WhoseTao

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Yea but yk its like I mentioned in a different thread, often too many times in the past have multiple victims been denied of their justice because of many different reasons, and so many choose to counter that now by agreeing quicker. Its a double edged sword, I would much rather everyone stay neutral but I get their point. Plus, I am a man, there are some issues then I wont be able to grasp as heavily as women will be able to.

#43

laeDLaer

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They’re just braindead

#51

number_1_Ego_fan

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they are really retarded holy fuck

#53

welikefortniteandvalorant

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lol people on twitter are literally cancer in person, cant name a worse place than twitter. if i had to deal with such people irl i would just move cities

#47

RadioactiveShot

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Usually the reason people say "believe the victim" is because of several reasons

There is generally little incentive to lie. Obviously exceptions exist, but the idea behind "believe the victim" is at least largely based on it.
Historically and even today, there has been an imbalance in repercussions between victims and offenders, with offenders often getting off without the victim even reporting them (which I can explain later if people don't understand why victims don't always report) or potentially even getting charges that should be given dropped (for various legal and cultural failures). In this sense, the victim is always at a disadvantage in getting proper justice, since if more than 50% of cases will be dropped true or not, then they are at a statistical disadvantage in terms of getting the true outcome from the legal system.
Banking off the theory that regardless of if the allegations are true or not, victims in the case of true accusations will always need more support than "perpetrators" in false allegations (of course they are not actually perpetrators). That is to say, if we look at the possible combinations of false allegations, supporting victims is the "moral dominant strategy" (imagine a nash equilibrium but the points are "moral points").

Again, it's important to note that these are not ALL the considerations made by EVERYONE, as well as uniquely in cases where the full reality of the situation is unknown.

IMO if the allegations have nothing but word of mouth, the only thing bystanders SHOULD do is strongly pressure investigation and continue to pressure action from [relevant overseeing authority, in this case Riot] until a conclusion is reached, with all findings from the investigation and the reason for the conclusion being public. At the end of the day, an investigation confirming the person truly is a victim or if the "perpetrator" is the true victim of libel/defamation is the only way we'll get anywhere, so it's best to harshly pressure VCT to investigate. I have issues with cancel culture, although I can understand some of the reasoning (I mean cancelling has existed since even before Jesus was cancelled), but I think the only way to solve this issue is with an investigation, something that should be the only focus of everyone who just wants this to be over with.

#55

zhongZHI

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i understand why they think my arguement doesnt stand. my point is that we shouldnt point fingers

#58

RadioactiveShot

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yah I wasn't disagreeing with what ur saying, most of my post was just informational. My opinion is basically just yours that we should wait for an investigation, with a little more emphasis that we should push DRX and Riot/VCT to make a proper investigation.

We don't know who's lying and who's not at this time so we shouldn't point fingers

#72

loapoarg

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if this is a false accusation i hope the girl gets severely punished according to the law and DRX publicizes her name and school
doing this shit before most important tournament of their life which changes their life course is disgusting
Koreans always wait and target a personality who has recently become successful with mostly false accusations in which the personality struggles to prove himself not guilty

#73

zhongZHI

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as i said timing sus but best no one assumes anything

#74

RadioactiveShot

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again, let me say that I'm only providing a possible explanation as to the timing. That is to say, what I am about to write is regarding how timing is an argument for both sides and as a result basically a non argument in general, because it could go either way and it can only be revealed along with the truth.

A lot of people are really hesitant to report SA as it's usually a lot of unwanted attention and it is quite embarassing. Most people don't want to draw attention to themselves as a victim. At the same time, it would definitely suck to see someone who violated you getting successful and praised even though they are... not a good person. People dwell on things that happen to them and it can take a long time for someone to finally decide to take action, because people are indecisive and scared. So it is very possible that the allegation came out at this time only because the bottled hurt and pain the alleged victim had felt finally burst with everyone praising the offendant.

Again, if the accusation is false the perpetrator should get full punishment. I am simply saying the timing argument works for both sides so we should treat it as a non-argument, since it is an argument that relies on the truth rather than an argument that reveals the truth

#75

i11matic

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THE GENDER WAR DESIGNED BY THE MONEY LENDERS KABAL IS REALLLL!!!!!