So many big names missing from challengers this year... feels like a huge step down from what we had last year. Whoever makes it through quals is just getting shit on my the 3 signed teams from last year.... and probably turtle troop as well, honestly
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who cares about big names, what matters is the quality of the up-and-comers
for example: look at https://www.vlr.gg/player/30467/zamal
just found this guy yesterday and holy shit you're in for a treat if you see his FK and FDs in any of his matches
guy lives and breathes entries
you gotta be trolling...SaD beat Turtle Troop and will probably a top 3 challengers team. Even without them, we have multiple stacked teams with huge names such as YFP, Lucky 7, QoR and SR. You can make the argument that it will be a "step down" but saying a HUGE step down is a reach in my opinion, all of these teams are better than Mad Lions and DSG.
Kiko [#2]theres 6 teams total from last year
vlr just doesnt know the last 2 because faze and tsm dropped their teams i believe
I'm pretty sure tsm and faze, as well as ore announced their withdrawal from challengers
Nachtel [#3]who cares about big names, what matters is the quality of the up-and-comers
for example: look at https://www.vlr.gg/player/30467/zamal
just found this guy yesterday and holy shit you're in for a treat if you see his FK and FDs in any of his matches
guy lives and breathes entries
I agree that quality of play is what matters... can't say I've seen much quality so far. Very scrappy. Maybe you are right about this guy tho idk. If he quals we will see how he does against better competition
alLAMENTal [#5]I'm pretty sure tsm and faze, as well as ore announced their withdrawal from challengers
The players are still playing in challengers as free agents
alLAMENTal [#5]I'm pretty sure tsm and faze, as well as ore announced their withdrawal from challengers
but the players still keep the spot
HackNaija [#4]you gotta be trolling...SaD beat Turtle Troop and will probably a top 3 challengers team. Even without them, we have multiple stacked teams with huge names such as YFP, Lucky 7, QoR and SR. You can make the argument that it will be a "step down" but saying a HUGE step down is a reach in my opinion, all of these teams are better than Mad Lions and DSG.
On SaD.... DOUBT. Out of M80, OXG, and MxS, who are you putting them over? They're one of the top teams in opens, probably, but I don't think one result against turtle troop with a different roster than they'll have now is very telling.
I believe YFP anf SaD are probably on par with ML or DSG... but they got shit on last year... even less hopeful about the others.
We will see how big of a step it will be when the main draw rolls around.
thauptman [#8]but the players still keep the spot
Huge if true... would explain the absense of those players in opens.... thanks
HackNaija [#4]you gotta be trolling...SaD beat Turtle Troop and will probably a top 3 challengers team. Even without them, we have multiple stacked teams with huge names such as YFP, Lucky 7, QoR and SR. You can make the argument that it will be a "step down" but saying a HUGE step down is a reach in my opinion, all of these teams are better than Mad Lions and DSG.
Bro thinks sad will beat m80 mxs or oxg
77_sTuna [#12]who do you mean by "big names"?
mostly the ex faze and tsm guys especially... apparently they keep the spots.... but also streamers who were former pros like roza or other cs guys like stew or what not...
alLAMENTal [#14]mostly the ex faze and tsm guys especially... apparently they keep the spots.... but also streamers who were former pros like roza or other cs guys like stew or what not...
well from what I heard in vanity's stream babybay poised gmd seven etc. are all on one of the invited teams. The other one is paincakes mummay icy...
I feel like for big streamers who are not looking to play in t2 it's only worth if they are allowed to stream their POV's like how UB was last year
alLAMENTal [#9]On SaD.... DOUBT. Out of M80, OXG, and MxS, who are you putting them over? They're one of the top teams in opens, probably, but I don't think one result against turtle troop with a different roster than they'll have now is very telling.
I believe YFP anf SaD are probably on par with ML or DSG... but they got shit on last year... even less hopeful about the others.
We will see how big of a step it will be when the main draw rolls around.
SaD had a very close series against MxS, and beat Turtle Troop during their first tournament together... minus the MxS 15-13 16-14 loss they are undefeated since creating this roster, winning almost every map by a comfortable margin. if they qualify for challengers that allows more time and more quality scrims against tough opponents, i wouldn't doubt SaD's ability to put up a fight against those top 3 teams. Saying SaD are on par with Mad Lions is borderline disrespectful in my opinion. YFP is a very talented roster with old tier 1 talent on the team. giving many of these open qualifier teams time to gel, i wouldnt be surprised if they outperform your expectations.
77_sTuna [#15]well from what I heard in vanity's stream babybay poised gmd seven etc. are all on one of the invited teams. The other one is paincakes mummay icy...
I feel like for big streamers who are not looking to play in t2 it's only worth if they are allowed to stream their POV's like how UB was last year
They are allowed to stream in opens i think... there were pov streams earlier in the tourney.
...IDK about the rest. FaZe and TSM players are not invited... but qualified because of placement last year. IDK about ORE... seems like some of those players are playing opens now, like fiziq, jonaaa6, lear.
Other big names arent necessarily big streamers, but guys like dicey or exalt who have a ton of raw talent but keep getting bounced for various reasons.
HackNaija [#16]SaD had a very close series against MxS, and beat Turtle Troop during their first tournament together... minus the MxS 15-13 16-14 loss they are undefeated since creating this roster, winning almost every map by a comfortable margin. if they qualify for challengers that allows more time and more quality scrims against tough opponents, i wouldn't doubt SaD's ability to put up a fight against those top 3 teams. Saying SaD are on par with Mad Lions is borderline disrespectful in my opinion. YFP is a very talented roster with old tier 1 talent on the team. giving many of these open qualifier teams time to gel, i wouldnt be surprised if they outperform your expectations.
Turtle troop have swapped two players since that game + that game did not matter. I don't doubt that they will improve. Everyone will improve... it's about baseline + rate of improvement * time. The rate of improvement will have to be drastic.
And comparing to mad lions is not disrespectful. They had talented players. Drone is one of my favorite players. Bjor Ange Zexrow were all performing well at various points... They just didnt have enough. DSG had fucking yay.... and you're saying it's disrespectful to compare a completely unproven tier 3 team to them? That's asinine. Impossible to take your opinion seriously smh
alLAMENTal [#17]They are allowed to stream in opens i think... there were pov streams earlier in the tourney.
...IDK about the rest. FaZe and TSM players are not invited... but qualified because of placement last year. IDK about ORE... seems like some of those players are playing opens now, like fiziq, jonaaa6, lear.
Other big names arent necessarily big streamers, but guys like dicey or exalt who have a ton of raw talent but keep getting bounced for various reasons.
Ore had icy paincakes brax runi and nillyaz and they are all not playing qualifiers so im pretty sure that they are already qualified
alLAMENTal [#18]Turtle troop have swapped two players since that game + that game did not matter. I don't doubt that they will improve. Everyone will improve... it's about baseline + rate of improvement * time. The rate of improvement will have to be drastic.
And comparing to mad lions is not disrespectful. They had talented players. Drone is one of my favorite players. Bjor Ange Zexrow were all performing well at various points... They just didnt have enough. DSG had fucking yay.... and you're saying it's disrespectful to compare a completely unproven tier 3 team to them? That's asinine. Impossible to take your opinion seriously smh
"Everyone will improve... it's about baseline + rate of improvement * time" Tell me, who do you think will improve at a faster rate? The pug teams that will now have stability and will be able to practice against top franchised competition for the first time? Or the teams who already have been doing that, who's only difference is making 1 or 2 roster changes? If teams like SaD has already shown promise under the subpar conditions they have had (a high baseline), why wouldn't they be able to improve at a higher rate? Just because you only recognize big twitch streamer names and correlate that with "skill" doesn't mean that open qualifier teams are going to be worse than last years solely because they aren't known names
HackNaija [#20]"Everyone will improve... it's about baseline + rate of improvement * time" Tell me, who do you think will improve at a faster rate? The pug teams that will now have stability and will be able to practice against top franchised competition for the first time? Or the teams who already have been doing that, who's only difference is making 1 or 2 roster changes? If teams like SaD has already shown promise under the subpar conditions they have had (a high baseline), why wouldn't they be able to improve at a higher rate? Just because you only recognize big twitch streamer names and correlate that with "skill" doesn't mean that open qualifier teams are going to be worse than last years solely because they aren't known names
quality of practice matters... the rate of improvement needs to be drastically bigger... The same argument you are making now would apply to pug teams last year, and almost none of the less established pug teams actually got to that level.
We will see how it will play out
HackNaija [#20]"Everyone will improve... it's about baseline + rate of improvement * time" Tell me, who do you think will improve at a faster rate? The pug teams that will now have stability and will be able to practice against top franchised competition for the first time? Or the teams who already have been doing that, who's only difference is making 1 or 2 roster changes? If teams like SaD has already shown promise under the subpar conditions they have had (a high baseline), why wouldn't they be able to improve at a higher rate? Just because you only recognize big twitch streamer names and correlate that with "skill" doesn't mean that open qualifier teams are going to be worse than last years solely because they aren't known names
Also the last point is such a strawman. I rate skill by watching the games. I don't see the same level of skill because many of those who are ESTABLISHED to be that skill are not playing. There are certainly going to be talented players up and coming and will fill some of that void... but in terms of teamplay, the level is lower than last year. I never said they won't improve, I said I don't see the level yet. That may change, but I dont see any of these teams contending with the returning challengers teams. I've agreed with piints you've made that I am on board with... you haven't done anything close to that. Just making strawmen and calling my points "disrespectful" as if that's a counterargument. You haven't even addressed the main crux of my points. This will be my last reply because you are wasting my time.
Asuna_Yuuki [#21]Din’t underestimate SaD esports
They might be decent. We will see. SaD and YFP look good, but it's only 2 teams
HackNaija [#20]"Everyone will improve... it's about baseline + rate of improvement * time" Tell me, who do you think will improve at a faster rate? The pug teams that will now have stability and will be able to practice against top franchised competition for the first time? Or the teams who already have been doing that, who's only difference is making 1 or 2 roster changes? If teams like SaD has already shown promise under the subpar conditions they have had (a high baseline), why wouldn't they be able to improve at a higher rate? Just because you only recognize big twitch streamer names and correlate that with "skill" doesn't mean that open qualifier teams are going to be worse than last years solely because they aren't known names
And one final addendum to address your strawman... I recognize way more than big streamers. I recognize about half the players still in contention in opens... of which almost none are big streamers. That includes most of the SaD roster you're so high on. Think of some actual counter arguments next time pls
alLAMENTal [#23]Also the last point is such a strawman. I rate skill by watching the games. I don't see the same level of skill because many of those who are ESTABLISHED to be that skill are not playing. There are certainly going to be talented players up and coming and will fill some of that void... but in terms of teamplay, the level is lower than last year. I never said they won't improve, I said I don't see the level yet. That may change, but I dont see any of these teams contending with the returning challengers teams. I've agreed with piints you've made that I am on board with... you haven't done anything close to that. Just making strawmen and calling my points "disrespectful" as if that's a counterargument. You haven't even addressed the main crux of my points. This will be my last reply because you are wasting my time.
OK!!!! We will see soon enough. Same guy crying about me making a "strawman" argument is the person who said my opinion is "asinine" and i shouldn't be taken seriously. I already can tell what type of person you are ^_^
alLAMENTal [#25]And one final addendum to address your strawman... I recognize way more than big streamers. I recognize about half the players still in contention in opens... of which almost none are big streamers. That includes most of the SaD roster you're so high on. Think of some actual counter arguments next time pls
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