TenZ omen Vs Pancada Omen.

Playing a smokes agent is not as hard as you think it is. TenZ would fit better as a omen on this team then pancada would. Pancada is no where near tenz level mechanically.

Yes pancada world champion smokes player. oh well.. he dosent fit with the playstyle of the team or the 5th man sentinels need. ANYONE CAN TRANSITION TO A SMOKES PLAYER.

You could debate it differently for a Viper/Astra or even brimstone. But Omen isnt hard to play and they only play him with double smokes. so he can still take the same/more duels as he would on any other agent tenz plays. please just stop the tenz/sen hate!!!!

obvious solution and what they should have done from the get go

tenz flex and pancada primary controller. pancada has so much to contribute on smokes and now we might never get to see that.

FrenchToast [#2]

obvious solution and what they should have done from the get go

tenz flex and pancada primary controller. pancada has so much to contribute on smokes and now we might never get to see that.

dont need it. so far sen has only been playing omen/viper maps. and brimstone on bind. Astra isnt in the meta neither is harbor.

With this team style im picking TenZ on Omen over Pancada. I think Pancada would still have a better viper then zellsis. but thats only for like Split and its not worth trying a 6 man roster just for 1 map.

Pancada either looks like the best smokes player in the world or the worst. and so far tenz/zelsis have both been doing good on smokes so no issues.

there's a big difference between a great player on smokes and a great smokes player imo

tenz is playing insane right now. but you don't see the intangibles that goat smokes players like mako, pancada, marved have. in the end SEN thinks that the team is better this way, and that's fine, but you shouldn't pretend like controller isn't a deep role with lots of complexity

i compare tenz current form to like a s0m or demon1 controller style. insane players on smokes, not insane smokes players

Shawn23 [#3]

dont need it. so far sen has only been playing omen/viper maps. and brimstone on bind. Astra isnt in the meta neither is harbor.

With this team style im picking TenZ on Omen over Pancada. I think Pancada would still have a better viper then zellsis. but thats only for like Split and its not worth trying a 6 man roster just for 1 map.

Pancada either looks like the best smokes player in the world or the worst. and so far tenz/zelsis have both been doing good on smokes so no issues.

i get it :((

i’m just sad bc i think pancada is soo great and a huge asset. unfortunate sen has 6 great players and can only choose 5. good dilemma to have i suppose.

ASTEROIDCHILD [#4]

there's a big difference between a great player on smokes and a great smokes player imo

tenz is playing insane right now. but you don't see the intangibles that goat smokes players like mako, pancada, marved have. in the end SEN thinks that the team is better this way, and that's fine, but you shouldn't pretend like controller isn't a deep role with lots of complexity

i compare tenz current form to like a s0m or demon1 controller style. insane players on smokes, not insane smokes players

" not insane smokes players "

so what makes someone a insane smokes player ? Tenz utl has been good and his fragging has been good. so what is he doing wrong that dosent declare him a insane smokes player ?

FrenchToast [#5]

i get it :((

i’m just sad bc i think pancada is soo great and a huge asset. unfortunate sen has 6 great players and can only choose 5. good dilemma to have i suppose.

yeah, but atleast theyre still paying him. if they knew they wouldve went with zellsis over him they couldve probably found him another place to play and we couldve seen him this season. but most teams are already confirmed. could see a transfer or loan happen in the middle of the season if a team isnt playing good but who knows

Shawn23 [#6]

" not insane smokes players "

so what makes someone a insane smokes player ? Tenz utl has been good and his fragging has been good. so what is he doing wrong that dosent declare him a insane smokes player ?

the intangibles... just watch prime mako/marved and the way they influence the game is literally game winning. completely irrelevant of fragging too, they way they maneuver around smokes, the timings they catch, their game sense in the 1vX positions. there's a reason saadhak says that marved was the hardest opponent on prime optic

im not even saying tenz will never get there, i'm saying there's a lot of depth to this role

ASTEROIDCHILD [#8]

the intangibles... just watch prime mako/marved and the way they influence the game is literally game winning. completely irrelevant of fragging too, they way they maneuver around smokes, the timings they catch, their game sense in the 1vX positions. there's a reason saadhak says that marved was the hardest opponent on prime optic

im not even saying tenz will never get there, i'm saying there's a lot of depth to this role

its a different meta then when marved and mako thrived.

even 2023 mako didnt look that good lol. marved didnt look the best on sen either but i give him benefit of the doubt since he was IGLing.

Shawn23 [#9]

its a different meta then when marved and mako thrived.

even 2023 mako didnt look that good lol. marved didnt look the best on sen either but i give him benefit of the doubt since he was IGLing.

now we're just waffling, the things they were doing weren't meta dependent lool lets be a little good faith here it's not like they were on chamber

you don't need to debate this topic, i started by saying tenz is playing insane right now, any further fluffing is excessive and everyone knows it

u might not need it at afreecatv but to win LAN u need a S tier smokes usually

Shawn23 [#6]

" not insane smokes players "

so what makes someone a insane smokes player ? Tenz utl has been good and his fragging has been good. so what is he doing wrong that dosent declare him a insane smokes player ?

his util has not been good

Cyygatoloool [#12]

his util has not been good

what hasnt been good?

ASTEROIDCHILD [#10]

now we're just waffling, the things they were doing weren't meta dependent lool lets be a little good faith here it's not like they were on chamber

you don't need to debate this topic, i started by saying tenz is playing insane right now, any further fluffing is excessive and everyone knows it

okay so who do you think were the top 3 smokes players this year lmao.

Cyygatoloool [#12]

his util has not been good

rlly bro? dont say utility when his smokes and flashes have been good and all hes been doing are aggressive tps. "his util has not been good" u are dumb ASF

Shizzle [#15]

rlly bro? dont say utility when his smokes and flashes have been good and all hes been doing are aggressive tps. "his util has not been good" u are dumb ASF

those aggressive tps honestly shouldnt be working a lot of the time, they should be punished and are predictable 'cause he;s just constantly tping to high spots, his smokes are ok but sometimes you see issues like split mid against drx for example sometimes they leave too much space on one side, or it's smoked in the air and then has to fall down instead of just directly on ground level. those are very easy fixes but they were present.

Shawn23 [#9]

its a different meta then when marved and mako thrived.

even 2023 mako didnt look that good lol. marved didnt look the best on sen either but i give him benefit of the doubt since he was IGLing.

mako in 2023 is still widely considered a VERY consistent and arguably the best controller player lmao tf are you on.

cboomer [#11]

u might not need it at afreecatv but to win LAN u need a S tier smokes usually

no u don’t lmao

cboomer [#11]

u might not need it at afreecatv but to win LAN u need a S tier smokes usually

eg won champs without one lmfao, shows how unaware you are. Disappointed at these fake sen fans

GhostKing44 [#16]

those aggressive tps honestly shouldnt be working a lot of the time, they should be punished and are predictable 'cause he;s just constantly tping to high spots, his smokes are ok but sometimes you see issues like split mid against drx for example sometimes they leave too much space on one side, or it's smoked in the air and then has to fall down instead of just directly on ground level. those are very easy fixes but they were present.

The aggressive tps are viable due to the white noise in the venue. It makes it harder to hear and less easy to predict.

Shawn23 [#7]

yeah, but atleast theyre still paying him. if they knew they wouldve went with zellsis over him they couldve probably found him another place to play and we couldve seen him this season. but most teams are already confirmed. could see a transfer or loan happen in the middle of the season if a team isnt playing good but who knows

jawgemo was one of the best omen players itw within last year lol

cboomer [#21]

jawgemo was one of the best omen players itw within last year lol

whys that because he could go frag ? his utl wasn’t the best. so what are we saying that….

Shawn23 [#22]

whys that because he could go frag ? his utl wasn’t the best. so what are we saying that….

if u said this ab demon1 id agree jawgemo is a very good controller and i meant to reply @ 19 and 18 you both have low iq

Shizzle [#15]

rlly bro? dont say utility when his smokes and flashes have been good and all hes been doing are aggressive tps. "his util has not been good" u are dumb ASF

sure

Shawn23 [#9]

its a different meta then when marved and mako thrived.

even 2023 mako didnt look that good lol. marved didnt look the best on sen either but i give him benefit of the doubt since he was IGLing.

"mako didnt look that good lol"
what universe are you living in

Shizzle [#19]

eg won champs without one lmfao, shows how unaware you are. Disappointed at these fake sen fans

usually being the key work here. demon1 being able to frag out on any agent with passable util usage is an anomaly helped by the fact they have jawgemo who is also someone that can frag out on any agent and covers raze for demon1

ASTEROIDCHILD [#4]

there's a big difference between a great player on smokes and a great smokes player imo

tenz is playing insane right now. but you don't see the intangibles that goat smokes players like mako, pancada, marved have. in the end SEN thinks that the team is better this way, and that's fine, but you shouldn't pretend like controller isn't a deep role with lots of complexity

i compare tenz current form to like a s0m or demon1 controller style. insane players on smokes, not insane smokes players

s0m was actually really good with controller utility, I feel like people just assume it's his aim since it wasn't really his main role but when you watch the NRG games he had some really great on the spot smokes and he seemed like the only person that was comfortable with harbor utility (though if we're talking in terms of lurks then yeah we didn't see much, they didn't really have him on that role)

cboomer [#11]

u might not need it at afreecatv but to win LAN u need a S tier smokes usually

when regular season starts and they get farmed they're gonna be calling for pancada in dw

ASTEROIDCHILD [#4]

there's a big difference between a great player on smokes and a great smokes player imo

tenz is playing insane right now. but you don't see the intangibles that goat smokes players like mako, pancada, marved have. in the end SEN thinks that the team is better this way, and that's fine, but you shouldn't pretend like controller isn't a deep role with lots of complexity

i compare tenz current form to like a s0m or demon1 controller style. insane players on smokes, not insane smokes players

i hate this argument so much because it literally makes no sense in retrospect. For every reason you said what makes a "great smokes player" in #8 is straight up found in any match Demon1 played on smokes, especially during Champs. Literally the best smokes performance of the year was from him during Champs vs DRX on Fracture but nah he's not a great smokes player like wtf lol. You're blindly discrediting people who perform well on smokes just because they flex it and its actually weird af. There's no specific role bible that these guys refuse to read, if they perform great on smokes then they're a great smokes player.

GhostKing44 [#16]

those aggressive tps honestly shouldnt be working a lot of the time, they should be punished and are predictable 'cause he;s just constantly tping to high spots, his smokes are ok but sometimes you see issues like split mid against drx for example sometimes they leave too much space on one side, or it's smoked in the air and then has to fall down instead of just directly on ground level. those are very easy fixes but they were present.

The air smoke is actually a tactic many players use to catch enemies off guard by throwing a momentary one-way. TenZ is not the best controller in the world by any means but he's doing good fundamentally during execs, retakes as well getting good trades behind zekken

uwukitten [#27]

s0m was actually really good with controller utility, I feel like people just assume it's his aim since it wasn't really his main role but when you watch the NRG games he had some really great on the spot smokes and he seemed like the only person that was comfortable with harbor utility (though if we're talking in terms of lurks then yeah we didn't see much, they didn't really have him on that role)

ya i didn't like putting s0m in there cuz i think as the year went on he started to get really good. i liked his harbor a lot (besides the cgrs incident Aware)

cartixuzi [#29]

i hate this argument so much because it literally makes no sense in retrospect. For every reason you said what makes a "great smokes player" in #8 is straight up found in any match Demon1 played on smokes, especially during Champs. Literally the best smokes performance of the year was from him during Champs vs DRX on Fracture but nah he's not a great smokes player like wtf lol. You're blindly discrediting people who perform well on smokes just because they flex it and its actually weird af. There's no specific role bible that these guys refuse to read, if they perform great on smokes then they're a great smokes player.

the role is very deep and it's a bit insulting to think that someone can pick up smokes and suddenly get the same complex mastery as other pros that have been playing it for years lol! i called no player in my comment bad you're taking offense because you can't read!

GhostKing44 [#16]

those aggressive tps honestly shouldnt be working a lot of the time, they should be punished and are predictable 'cause he;s just constantly tping to high spots, his smokes are ok but sometimes you see issues like split mid against drx for example sometimes they leave too much space on one side, or it's smoked in the air and then has to fall down instead of just directly on ground level. those are very easy fixes but they were present.

aggro tps are just limit testing so that he'll know when to tp and when to not by the time the league starts

Cyygatoloool [#24]

sure

clip

GhostKing44 [#26]

usually being the key work here. demon1 being able to frag out on any agent with passable util usage is an anomaly helped by the fact they have jawgemo who is also someone that can frag out on any agent and covers raze for demon1

tenz is one of them, even on harbor when his util wasnt the best

Shizzle [#35]

tenz is one of them, even on harbor when his util wasnt the best

tenz will have to prove he's one of them in the actual season

GhostKing44 [#36]

tenz will have to prove he's one of them in the actual season

That's true. I just wanna say that s0m himself wanted sen to try out viper harbor more since there was not something fundamentally wrong by TenZ harbor, the team as a whole just lacked good macro on the map

ASTEROIDCHILD [#32]

the role is very deep and it's a bit insulting to think that someone can pick up smokes and suddenly get the same complex mastery as other pros that have been playing it for years lol! i called no player in my comment bad you're taking offense because you can't read!

its not insulting when its literally the truth lmfao, you're acting like these players never touched smokes in their life when that's absolutely not the case, there's no magical requirement for them to become a good smokes player if theyre already good on smokes, there's no differentiating the two. The same "complexity" lol, go rewatch the final map of VCT 2023 and tell me if marved's "smokes complexity" is gonna have a bigger impact than Demon1's in the moment, you're gatekeeping a valorant role my guy.

also idk where you got me saying you called them bad

Charism [#37]

That's true. I just wanna say that s0m himself wanted sen to try out viper harbor more since there was not something fundamentally wrong by TenZ harbor, the team as a whole just lacked good macro on the map

sen's haven is 70% huge miss, 10% alright and 20% good

cartixuzi [#38]

its not insulting when its literally the truth lmfao, you're acting like these players never touched smokes in their life when that's absolutely not the case, there's no magical requirement for them to become a good smokes player if theyre already good on smokes, there's no differentiating the two. The same "complexity" lol, go rewatch the final map of VCT 2023 and tell me if marved's "smokes complexity" is gonna have a bigger impact than Demon1's in the moment, you're gatekeeping a valorant role my guy.

also idk where you got me saying you called them bad

your claim is roles are surface level and don't have any complexity to them. any pro can pick up a new role and instantly become better than mako at controller, nats at sentinel, aspas at duelist, leo at initiator lol. not fragging mind you, i mean their understanding of the role. yea dude you're sane

ur inability to see what makes these players good at their role is just a massive fucking self report im sorry

ASTEROIDCHILD [#40]

your claim is roles are surface level and don't have any complexity to them. any pro can pick up a new role and instantly become better than mako at controller, nats at sentinel, aspas at duelist, leo at initiator lol. not fragging mind you, i mean their understanding of the role. yea dude you're sane

ur inability to see what makes these players good at their role is just a massive fucking self report im sorry

literally what are you saying rn holy shit, is this how you think u be winning arguments bro? When tf did I say they roles were surface level lmfao. You're literally lying about shit sm1 else said in an open discussion board like just read what I said instead of having a heart attack and nitpicking smth out of proportion xd

here's a match Demon1 played on smokes before even joining Tier 1 btw https://www.vlr.gg/162847/sqn-2-0-vs-team-mystic-black-knights-valorant-freezeout-ro32/?game=all&tab=overview

like i said before, if they're great on smokes then theyre a great smokes player xd. If sm1 picks up smokes and they suck on it, then theyre not a great smokes player xd. Ask any pro directly who watched s0m's games this year and they would tell you that he's a great smokes player, because he is xd. It's really not that hard to understand, and please stop blindly assuming ppl who start flexing a role have never touched that role before in their lives, you're bringing shame to Fiji

cartixuzi [#41]

literally what are you saying rn holy shit, is this how you think u be winning arguments bro? When tf did I say they roles were surface level lmfao. You're literally lying about shit sm1 else said in an open discussion board like just read what I said instead of having a heart attack and nitpicking smth out of proportion xd

here's a match Demon1 played on smokes before even joining Tier 1 btw https://www.vlr.gg/162847/sqn-2-0-vs-team-mystic-black-knights-valorant-freezeout-ro32/?game=all&tab=overview

like i said before, if they're great on smokes then theyre a great smokes player xd. If sm1 picks up smokes and they suck on it, then theyre not a great smokes player xd. Ask any pro directly who watched s0m's games this year and they would tell you that he's a great smokes player, because he is xd. It's really not that hard to understand, and please stop blindly assuming ppl who start flexing a role have never touched that role before in their lives, you're bringing shame to Fiji

if they're great on smokes then theyre a great smokes player

how are you okay with being this simple minded lmfao please just reread my comment and come back when you understand it

ASTEROIDCHILD [#42]

if they're great on smokes then theyre a great smokes player

how are you okay with being this simple minded lmfao please just reread my comment and come back when you understand it

no dude, that doesn't mean roles are surface level at all xd you brought up a claim no one said and you're defending it wtf xd

if you want an analogy to understand it better, if Mako flexed initiator and provided the same impact in comparison to the best initiators in the world, then would that make him a great initiator y/n?

GhostKing44 [#39]

sen's haven is 70% huge miss, 10% alright and 20% good

Yeah, I think reviewing other teams would be best, tho I am just a viewer so I don't know much here

Sen look really good with zellsis in for pancada. If they keep the same form they're making it relatively deep into LANS next year. Feels bad for pancada tho