KAY-O Broken? Opinions.

#1

kapteN

To me, KAY-O looks fucking strong for the following reasons. Congizant I may have missed something. Let me know your opinions on why you think he'll be broken or not good. I state my case below.

His flash is the most versatile in the game
doesn't need a wall like breach
doesn't need to bounce like yoru
doesn't need to be guided and can be destroyed like skye
doesn't require close proximity to corners like phoenix
doesn't have a range limit and can be destroyed like reyna

This flashbang will be the only TRUE popflash in the game that is literally unavoidable if people learn lineups, like in CS

His nade is a more viable molly than any molly in the game as you will do higher damage per tick even though ticks are slower. Most mollies you can get out of and take like 5-10 damage, won't be the case here. Also more effective for zoning cause it lasts longer than raze nade

His knife literally gives info on HOW MANY you suppressed and WHO you suppressed as well. Jett in a one and done angle? Knife goes by, she can't dash out or use smokes. Imagine KJ on ascent B with that alley molly setup. "KJ suppressed rush in", kj cant stop the push. Can also be used JUST for info

His ult disables all abilities, gives him reyna/brim combat stim and allows him to be revived when down. When he's down he's got 850 hp so impossible to kill his downed body fast. Literally use him like a phoenix to get into site without the ability to get flashed while doing it, and you don't have to hold his body like phoenix.

Literally everything he has except for the knife and the emp part of his ult is a similar or better equivalent of existing util

EDIT: Edited to say he's got 850 HP when downed.

#2

kapteN

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You can literally have an 8v5 with a sage, phoenix and kay-o.

Phoenix ults in, kay-o with ult behind him. Phoenix revives with ult, kay-o downed, if rest of team can get site control with those two ults, kay-o can be "stabilized" or whatever, and sage can revive another killed player. Literal 8v5.

Don't think it'll be super viable cause I'd see kay-o as someone you can slot into phoenix' spot in a roster rather than have both, but it is a possibility lmao

#27

clownhunter

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yeah no, he's not op at all. his flashbangs are good, but you are overrating them. even with lineups they can be avoided, people will get used to them and instinctively dodge. if pros can dodge split second breach flashes through the walls, then they can definitely dodge lineups.
his flash is not the most versatile in the game. every flash has different situations they're versatile in. skye flashes are extremely versatile as well, reyna flashes too. reyna's 'range limit' is extremely huge, you're making it out to be a major thing when its not.
we have no official stats on the molly and the damage per second, so you saying that it will be moree viable than any other molly is incredibly false and unproven, and ignorant. you have no proof of whether u wont be able to get out of it either.
his knife is obviously his best ability, its what he brings new to the table. all his other abilities are very one dimensional, so obviously his knife should be strong. its also the only counter play to the post plant meta in the game. i do believe it should be destroyable though.

#32

kapteN

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You can't get used to and instinctively dodge a popflash. That's literally what a popflash is. Breach flashes are by definition not popflashes.
It is. "every flash has different situations they're versatile in", yes, and this agent would be able to emulate most of those. Thus making it more versatile. again, literally the definition of versatility.
No gamesense? Look at what it does and how quick the first tick is compared to a molly in the game
I do believe it will be destroyable given short windup time, similar to vision dart

#33

clownhunter

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yes, you can definitely get used to it and dodge. breach flashes can be considered popflashes.
no, this agent wouldnt. skye's guiding flashes are much more versatile then his flashes in almost every case. reyna flashes cover almost every line of sight in a sight before getting destroyed. these are all huge one ups against his pop flashes. thus making it NOT the most versatile. again, the definition doesnt matter if your premise is wrong in the first place.
again, that is not valid proof of your claims.
i hope so, for balancing reasons.

#35

hekzy

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You damn iron. How are breach flashes, pop flashes? They have the same amount of time to pop off PLUS a sound to give it away, EVERY TIME. With pop flashes, they bang 10 cm into the angle and you can't hear them coming, that's what a pop flash is, something you can't escape while holding an angle because it can literally stay on your screen for less than 20ms

#36

clownhunter

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because they still pop onto ur screen and activate u fucking retard. the sound still happens very fast and a lot of times its hard to dodge even for pros.

#39

WitLitning

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oooooookay guys time to simmer down

#45

hekzy

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That's called flash, every flash is like that, not pop flash, there is a big difference. Search csgo pop flash for executes and you'll see what I'm talking about.

#42

gaffy

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the meaning of a "pop flash" is a flash that pops too fast for you to react. you can react to breach flashes so they are by definition not a pop flash

#44

clownhunter

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u can also react to pop flashes dumbass

#3

PotatoCh1ps

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every new agent seems broken and somehow riot make it work everytime

#4

kapteN

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Yoru seemed broken until we learned just how LOUD he was. This agent seems pretty fucking good.

Share your opinion on the case I made however.

#5

PotatoCh1ps

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yup last 3 agents everyone was like oh its gonna break the game and astra is op but hasnt broken the game if you can counter her its all good. Well we cant comment until the agent arrives

#6

kapteN

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Astra HAS broken the game. Pros are sharing this opinion. You cannot counter her. That's why they're going to be balancing her this act so there is an actual counterplay.

#10

Shanty

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She hasn't broken the game, she had a pick rate of 43% in Iceland. If you want to know what a broken agent looks like, go look at Lion in Rainbow 6 on launch. If she was broken, you wouldn't have teams like Fnatic bringing out Brimstone instead. She is good, needs some adjustments. But definitely isn't broken. Plus Astra is only OP when she has a partner in crime, she is honestly not that great in solo q cause you need a teammate to work with you to get the most out of her. Which is what Riot is trying to adjust in the first place according to the State of the Agents update.

#12

kapteN

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What riot is adjusting according to the State of the Agents update is counterplay to her abilities, cause there is none. Nothing is being said about the team aspect

Sentinels played Astra on 7 out of 9 maps in iceland, the only 2 maps they didn't play her were both icebox, where she simply isn't as viable.

That's a 100% pickrate on every map that isn't icebox

#15

Shanty

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She had a 43% pickrate. If one team is using it more, that is factored into the 43%. Go and read the state of agents again, they did absolutely talk about her team aspect. Quote from the State of the Agents, what do you think coordinated play means?

Astra

The galaxy brain Agent provides a specific playstyle to the game, but we’re looking to take some steps to add more counterplay to some of her play patterns that are too oppressive in coordinated play.

LOL and are you really upvoting your own comment and downvoting anyone that disagrees with you? Come on dude. lol

#16

kapteN

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Yes, and the team that won it all, and had a 100% pickrate on her apart from icebox is calling other teams dumb for not playing her. Also you brought up fnatic who said in the press conference they think brim is better, but they actually busted out the astra themselves as well. May be classic mindgames.

"to add more counterplay to some of her play patterns that are too oppressive in coordinated play".

This doesn't back up what you said man, this says they're adding counterplay, not change her "partner in crime" playstyle.

It means they realize that astra's abilities are too strong with good comms/teamplay, they specifically call it out because astra isn't as good in ranked despite her being OP in pro scene. Which means counterplay to her abilities, exactly what I said.

You're really good at misreading things man. I'm not downvoting people who disagree with me, I'm downvoting people who are making dumb posts.

#21

Shanty

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Sova, Jett, KillJoy, Viper. All broken characters I guess.
LOL sure, if you want to ignore the word coordinated that's fine by me, continue throwing out things don't back up your view point. Sadly statistics don't care about opinion. Good luck in your discussion when you take things so personal, enjoy upvoting your own posts lol.

#22

kapteN

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I didn't ignore the word coordinated, I addressed it. You're misinterpreting it.

The stats show that the statistically best performing team statistically plays the most astra. They don't care about your opinions.

you also mention Sova, Jett, KillJoy, Viper

You're right, viper has little counterplay when played right, which is why we also saw her a lot in iceland. Jett has quite little counterplay as well (again, a must pick in iceland on most maps).
Sova and killjoy have a lot of counterplay. Everything can be avoided or destroyed.

#28

clownhunter

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no, she hasnt broken the game. it is just SOME pros whining about the fact that she's doing her job as a good controller. a lot of other pros like sick are completely fine with her. you dont need counterplay for every single thing in a game, especially controllers. what the fuck is that ssupposed to even mean? what a horrible argument. controllers are not oppressive agents like duelists or initiators that need counterplay, they quite literally are just to control sites with smokes etc.

#31

kapteN

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Nobody has any objection to her smokes

#7

Cheasle2

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his flash does have a range, it pops pretty quick

#8

kapteN

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It does, but you can 100% learn lineups so that it flashes just above a wall or beyond a corner. His right click as well, if you learn the timing/range you could have a flash that pops AS SOON as it clears a corner. Like I said, just much more versatile than any other flash so far

#24

Cheasle2

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skye literally does what you just said

#25

kapteN

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Except skye has to be guiding her flashes except for close angles, they can be destroyed and can be heard quite easily.

This guy doesn't have to guide his flashes, they cannot be destroyed and not enough info about sound cues.

#29

clownhunter

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thats the same as phoenix flash though for a corner? its not more versatile.

#30

kapteN

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Yes, it can do the phoenix thing, but it can also do more.

Literally the definition of versatility

#34

clownhunter

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yeah but other flashes do more as well.

#9

Shanty

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His revive honestly isn't great. It was leaked months ago that when he is revived he only gets 50hp. He can't move around when down, so he can't crawl to a safe place to revive. If he dies out in the open, he isn't getting revived. It's a 7 point ult. It takes like 5 seconds to revive him, a lot of time to be out in the open to revive someone to 50hp.

Every agent added to the game gets called OP on launch. A week goes by and the community learns how to combat him, and it's fine. And at the end of the day, if he is OP, he will get nerfed. Just look at Sage as an example, or how Astra is getting a nerf.

Riot doesn't want another case of Yoru. Where he is released, then never used in comp cause he is bad. And honestly, I think Breach's flash is better. This 8v5 scenario is dumb. Blowing 3 of the best ults for one round is the opposite of being efficient.

#11

kapteN

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There is 0 info on how long it takes to revive him, don't make assumptions.

Yoru was not viable cause of the huge sound cues for everything, not an issue here.

Breach's flash lasts longer but cannot be a true popflash and lacks the versatility of this flash, which was the point in my OP.

I know the 8v5 scenario is dumb, pointless argument. I just said it is possible, and specifically mentioned it's not viable.

How about you actually address the points in the OP instead of bringing up things that have nothing to do with what I wrote.

#13

Shanty

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There is info for how long it takes to revive him. The info about a revive mechanic added to the have been out since like April 27 if I remember. I was wrong on the number though. It is two seconds. so I will concede that point. But the info has been out.

https://www.dexerto.com/valorant/valorant-leak-reveals-new-downed-mechanic-could-be-for-new-game-mode-1562055/

Why you so upset? You are talking about if a character is broken or not. I gave reason why the agent might not be broken. Relax

#14

kapteN

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2 secs seems perfectly reasonable - apologies for calling you out on making assumptions.

That being said, just having an extra body on the field even if 50 hp, after an entry, is a pretty good deal if you ask me, especially when that "body" enables an easier push by disabling abilities

#17

lhp_windson

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If he downed, teamate can revive him within 14s, which appear on trailer. When he downed he became a free camera on the ground which can gather info for teammate, that's huge. Prolly need to kill his dead body.

#19

kapteN

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It is huge.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LwnSPWWBoj8&ab_channel=%D0%93%D0%B0%D0%BB%D0%B0%D0%BA%D1%82%D0%B8%D0%BA%D0%B0%D0%9D%D0%BE%D1%83%D1%82

But look at the video, he has 850 HP when downed. Takes 6 headshots to completely kill him, or 22 bodyshots. Will be hard to spend the time doing that when his teammates are getting on site as well.

#18

Xaster15

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His ult disables all abilities, gives him reyna/brim combat stim and allows him to be revived when down. When he's down he's got like 1000 hp so impossible to kill his downed body fast.

Ult disable all utility/abilities in range, and 1000hp? Where do u get this info?, Then don't shoot the downed body just take position if anyone else try to revived the body shoot it

#20

kapteN

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LwnSPWWBoj8&ab_channel=%D0%93%D0%B0%D0%BB%D0%B0%D0%BA%D1%82%D0%B8%D0%BA%D0%B0%D0%9D%D0%BE%D1%83%D1%82

Sorry, not 1000 hp, it's 850 HP. You can see it in this video. The info on what the ult does is readily available anywhere

Also by the time you are changing position the kay-o's teammates will already be flooding site, giving them space to revive.

#23

Uri

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he has the best kit in the game for sure.
kj and cypher become very useless with this agent their hole kit basically gets dissabled by this agent what makes them way useless in the new meta.
With his ult u can use him to enter in to a site and get free info plus a trade and with the best flash in the game he will be played alot for sure.
His molo for executes is broken by far the best molo that can deny rotations.
With his knife disables enemys in a area? RIP post plant meta lol

#26

kapteN

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Given the knife has a short windup time I do believe it can be broken before it goes off however.

Still a nice piece of kit if you can get it behind people like sova vision dart

#37

Uri

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the knife spots like the sova dart so u ddont need sova at all

#38

Daniveus

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his flash is op for sure

#40

SharubuNguvu

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wait till he comes out before decalring him OP LOL

#43

kapteN

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just played him in PBE and he's def fucking strong

#41

Jockie

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This exact same thing happened with Astra, Killjoy, Reyna and even YORU. Can u guys please let things breathe a bit so people get to know the agent and how to counter it?