CS Pro watchers come

So I have a question

It might sound incredibly stupid but i have never seen any Cs Pro footage ever, except s1mple highlights.

So the question is following: Since everybody in cs basically has the same guns (Ak47 and M4A1 difference but let it be for the moment), and everybody has the same utility, how is there depth in this game? Isnt it just team deathmatch then? Sure you can run fakes and everything, but since there are so many more possibilities in val, thinking about cs makes it extremely monotone. There is little to no utility usage determined to just one agent. Are there even metas? In Val we had Astra Meta, Jett Meta, Chamber Meta etc, in Cs its just gun metas right?

Somebody enlighten me pls thanks

watch this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NiZ61Nph58w&ab_channel=mahone_tv

?

stopped reading at "except s1mple higlights"

cs is so barebones and simple stratergy-wise that it made a full circle and is now actually complicated

So I have a question

It might sound incredibly stupid but i have never seen any Chess Pro footage ever, except magnus highlights.

So the question is following: Since everybody in Chess basically has the same pieces , and everybody has the same moves, how is there depth in this game? Isnt it just a boardgame then? Sure you can play with friends and everything, but since there are so many more possibilities in checkers, thinking about Chess makes it extremely monotone. There is little to no piecs determined to just one player. Are there even metas? In checkers we had black checker white checker etc, in Chess its just piece metas right?

Somebody enlighten me pls thanks

Yes it is just deathmatch and whichever awper is feeling it more wins the game. It's stuck in 2020 ignition series valorant in terms of strategy back when teams just relied on their Jett op and had only 2 or 3 set plays.

jawn [#5]

cs is so barebones and simple stratergy-wise that it made a full circle and is now actually complicated

This reply screams i have never spent a second interacting with pro level cs but i want to spew my uneducated opinion anyways. Some conversations you should just stay out of :).

Bubbiewubbie [#8]

This reply screams i have never spent a second interacting with pro level cs but i want to spew my uneducated opinion anyways. Some conversations you should just stay out of :).

am i wrong?

reycac [#6]

So I have a question

It might sound incredibly stupid but i have never seen any Chess Pro footage ever, except magnus highlights.

So the question is following: Since everybody in Chess basically has the same pieces , and everybody has the same moves, how is there depth in this game? Isnt it just a boardgame then? Sure you can play with friends and everything, but since there are so many more possibilities in checkers, thinking about Chess makes it extremely monotone. There is little to no piecs determined to just one player. Are there even metas? In checkers we had black checker white checker etc, in Chess its just piece metas right?

Somebody enlighten me pls thanks

This isn't a good analogy because in chess different pieces do different things unlike in CS where technically any player could fulfill any role. It's like playing chess with only pawns.

Ive watched both esports i play both games.
One game is complex in terms of team comps and how they mesh together.
The other is all about resources management. You get one smoke each and they last you for 20 seconds, now do you use it early to ward off aggressive pushes or do you ration them out but risk getting caught off guard. One game has way more different utilities making taking sites/retaking them easier, so the game is more retake focused.
In csgo its the opposite. Cts want to use their utility to avoid even having to retake, and instead try to shut down a site take before it even happens. And at the same time often even numbers retakes arent even attempted because of too high risk vs too little reward.
So basically while everyone has the same utility figuring out how you want to use that limited utility (maximum 4 nades, 1 smoke 1 HE 1 Molotov 2 Flashbangs and a decoy that no one uses) is the tactical part. Also every grenade requires a lineup so new grenade lineups pop up all the time requireing teams to find ways to counter that nade and on and on
On top of that those lineups can telegraph to the oposing team where an enemy might be playing from allowing the in game leader to make reads as opposed to feks a brimstone smoke which falls vertically from the sky
Also the cs economy is way more punishing sometimes requirering doulbe saves if you manage your money poorly. This makes save calls and economy management far more difficult.
sorry for the essay lmao hope this helps

if you've ever played this game competitively (even as an amateur), you'll realize that there are specific ways to respond to things that happen in valorant based off of information that is easily obtainable. they have x ult? do this. they have no more molly? do this. do we have ult? do this. it's so easy to keep track of utility in this game (kayo used molly, raze has no nades, sage used both slows). you know exactly when cooldowns are over (40 seconds). this game is literally CS on training wheels. "we should push this site because kayo used his molly earlier and they cant stop us with just jett and kayo"

you might think that there are tons of possibilities in valorant because of the abilities, but it actually makes the game very predictable once you are half decent at the game. the strats and decisions in valorant are way easier to make.

"we have kayo ult this round. let's rush A"
"we have breach ult. let's rush B"
"we have kj ult. let's retake"

due to the frequency of ults, you'll get this for at least 5 rounds in a TWELVE round half.

you think this is more complex than cs?

since there are so many more possibilities in val, thinking about cs makes it extremely monotone

if anything, this makes valorant monotone.

do i like CS more than valorant though? nah. valorant is fun as hell but I'm not gonna pretend that this game isn't way easier and simpler. when i watch cs, that shit is interesting because i actually have to think about what is going on in the players' heads. comp valorant isn't that interesting.

Netero [#7]

Yes it is just deathmatch and whichever awper is feeling it more wins the game. It's stuck in 2020 ignition series valorant in terms of strategy back when teams just relied on their Jett op and had only 2 or 3 set plays.

I would like to disagree. The meta changes and now the AWP is super in meta. Liquid won Grand Slam with NAF and Nitr0 awping so the awp obviously was not that important. The meta keeps changing with gun updates and non awp focused teams such as liquid and FURIA can still be competitive without focusing too much on the Awp. Obviously they can’t be asleep but they are still very much a rifle based team

jawn [#9]

am i wrong?

yes? Of course there is depth what do you think makes the difference at the highest level

jawn [#9]

am i wrong?

yeah deeply lol why do you think teams will include an in game leader putting up .9 ratings on tournament winning teams?
If the game was simple youd add another star fragger

rishu004 [#10]

This isn't a good analogy because in chess different pieces do different things unlike in CS where technically any player could fulfill any role. It's like playing chess with only pawns.

This is true but players don’t like playing certain roles. So in a sense a queen in chess is like the awper very important while the pawns can be the support player. This is still a poor Analogy but some players are less flexible than others such as Grim on conplexity he was ass on liquid with poor roles but improved greatly on complexity with his preferred roles

rishu004 [#10]

This isn't a good analogy because in chess different pieces do different things unlike in CS where technically any player could fulfill any role. It's like playing chess with only pawns.

and in cs the guns do different things

her_sage_420 [#12]

if you've ever played this game competitively (even as an amateur), you'll realize that there are specific ways to respond to things that happen in valorant based off of information that is easily obtainable. they have x ult? do this. they have no more molly? do this. do we have ult? do this. it's so easy to keep track of utility in this game (kayo used molly, raze has no nades, sage used both slows). you know exactly when cooldowns are over (40 seconds). this game is literally CS on training wheels. "we should push this site because kayo used his molly earlier and they cant stop us with just jett and kayo"

you might think that there are tons of possibilities in valorant because of the abilities, but it actually makes the game very predictable once you are half decent at the game. the strats and decisions in valorant are way easier to make.

"we have kayo ult this round. let's rush A"
"we have breach ult. let's rush B"
"we have kj ult. let's retake"

due to the frequency of ults, you'll get this for at least 5 rounds in a TWELVE round half.

you think this is more complex than cs?

since there are so many more possibilities in val, thinking about cs makes it extremely monotone

if anything, this makes valorant monotone.

do i like CS more than valorant though? nah. valorant is fun as hell but I'm not gonna pretend that this game isn't way easier and simpler. when i watch cs, that shit is interesting because i actually have to think about what is going on in the players' heads. comp valorant isn't that interesting.

exactly, when compare the tactical side of valorant to cs like its some insane chess level tactical experience that's so complex and hard to understand when in reality its really not that complex when you just play the game enough and even easier if you already have some experience in tac fps

It requires bit more of a game sense, discipline, and patience than VALORANT. Why? Because there's no alarm bots/trips/cams to watch flank. Requires more time to clear/reclear spaces because you literally risk your life when clearing (no 0 risk info's like drone, roomba, skyDog, prowlers etc.) There are no recon darts and fadeEye / KAYO knife to clear a whole area with literally zero risk. You have to be disciplined to not overppeek because you dont have escape abilities like: Jett Dash, Chamber TP, and Reyna Dismiss. CS might look simple but in competitive scene it demands too much discipline, game sense, awareness. You cant rely on pure aim mechanics like people do in VAL(most players have zero understanding of basic fundamentals like crossfire, and proper baiting) Most players just want their 1v1 duels 90% of the time without possible trade potential.

Bubbiewubbie [#15]

yeah deeply lol why do you think teams will include an in game leader putting up .9 ratings on tournament winning teams?
If the game was simple youd add another star fragger

i literally said it's complicated, touch up on the reading comprehension

I think that WingManPikachu explains it the best. It's a lot more disciplined and risky, the game is all about risk management and outbraining the enemy IGL. Inferno is one of the best maps in terms of understanding this because there's a ton of reclearing, site fakes, and utility discipline involved.

lmao

Bubbiewubbie [#11]

Ive watched both esports i play both games.
One game is complex in terms of team comps and how they mesh together.
The other is all about resources management. You get one smoke each and they last you for 20 seconds, now do you use it early to ward off aggressive pushes or do you ration them out but risk getting caught off guard. One game has way more different utilities making taking sites/retaking them easier, so the game is more retake focused.
In csgo its the opposite. Cts want to use their utility to avoid even having to retake, and instead try to shut down a site take before it even happens. And at the same time often even numbers retakes arent even attempted because of too high risk vs too little reward.
So basically while everyone has the same utility figuring out how you want to use that limited utility (maximum 4 nades, 1 smoke 1 HE 1 Molotov 2 Flashbangs and a decoy that no one uses) is the tactical part. Also every grenade requires a lineup so new grenade lineups pop up all the time requireing teams to find ways to counter that nade and on and on
On top of that those lineups can telegraph to the oposing team where an enemy might be playing from allowing the in game leader to make reads as opposed to feks a brimstone smoke which falls vertically from the sky
Also the cs economy is way more punishing sometimes requirering doulbe saves if you manage your money poorly. This makes save calls and economy management far more difficult.
sorry for the essay lmao hope this helps

Yo thanks for ur geniune answer. I really like cs, used to play csgo, also played a tad bit of cs source (very nice game but the headshot hitboxes are gigantic lmao). Now since cs2 got announced, i got even more into cs

Really looking forward to watching pro cs. And dont worry about the essay. Atleast i got a non troll answer

her_sage_420 [#12]

if you've ever played this game competitively (even as an amateur), you'll realize that there are specific ways to respond to things that happen in valorant based off of information that is easily obtainable. they have x ult? do this. they have no more molly? do this. do we have ult? do this. it's so easy to keep track of utility in this game (kayo used molly, raze has no nades, sage used both slows). you know exactly when cooldowns are over (40 seconds). this game is literally CS on training wheels. "we should push this site because kayo used his molly earlier and they cant stop us with just jett and kayo"

you might think that there are tons of possibilities in valorant because of the abilities, but it actually makes the game very predictable once you are half decent at the game. the strats and decisions in valorant are way easier to make.

"we have kayo ult this round. let's rush A"
"we have breach ult. let's rush B"
"we have kj ult. let's retake"

due to the frequency of ults, you'll get this for at least 5 rounds in a TWELVE round half.

you think this is more complex than cs?

since there are so many more possibilities in val, thinking about cs makes it extremely monotone

if anything, this makes valorant monotone.

do i like CS more than valorant though? nah. valorant is fun as hell but I'm not gonna pretend that this game isn't way easier and simpler. when i watch cs, that shit is interesting because i actually have to think about what is going on in the players' heads. comp valorant isn't that interesting.

Yo thanks for your explanation. I never really watched a pro cs game so i was lost in the sauce there

WingManPikachu [#19]

It requires bit more of a game sense, discipline, and patience than VALORANT. Why? Because there's no alarm bots/trips/cams to watch flank. Requires more time to clear/reclear spaces because you literally risk your life when clearing (no 0 risk info's like drone, roomba, skyDog, prowlers etc.) There are no recon darts and fadeEye / KAYO knife to clear a whole area with literally zero risk. You have to be disciplined to not overppeek because you dont have escape abilities like: Jett Dash, Chamber TP, and Reyna Dismiss. CS might look simple but in competitive scene it demands too much discipline, game sense, awareness. You cant rely on pure aim mechanics like people do in VAL(most players have zero understanding of basic fundamentals like crossfire, and proper baiting) Most players just want their 1v1 duels 90% of the time without possible trade potential.

Yo thanks for your answer. Now i understand it a little better. Honestly sounds very interesting. Might tune into some pro cs in the near future

It is actually really complex. Its so mastered that simple looking grenade throw or molly or positioning may have big impact on how the round will play out. It looks simple, but has a lot of elements. Almost every grenade throw has its meaning and stuff like positioning, spawn positions, timings, boosts etc add so much to pro level play. Like I remember watching G2 vs NaVi(?) Mirage and just the amount of awereness and utlity usage both teams had trying to win mid for their AWP players was insane.

acels2 [#2]

watch this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NiZ61Nph58w&ab_channel=mahone_tv

Wow. What a beautiful video. Thanks!

jawn [#9]

am i wrong?

thats like saying the only valorant highlights are tenz highlights

acels2 [#2]

watch this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NiZ61Nph58w&ab_channel=mahone_tv

aint clicking that link

prob some dogshit zydog highlights

https://www.twitch.tv/esl_csgo

come watch brother

its live rn

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cjOVXdarUTs&t=1s&ab_channel=ESEA

her_sage_420 [#12]

if you've ever played this game competitively (even as an amateur), you'll realize that there are specific ways to respond to things that happen in valorant based off of information that is easily obtainable. they have x ult? do this. they have no more molly? do this. do we have ult? do this. it's so easy to keep track of utility in this game (kayo used molly, raze has no nades, sage used both slows). you know exactly when cooldowns are over (40 seconds). this game is literally CS on training wheels. "we should push this site because kayo used his molly earlier and they cant stop us with just jett and kayo"

you might think that there are tons of possibilities in valorant because of the abilities, but it actually makes the game very predictable once you are half decent at the game. the strats and decisions in valorant are way easier to make.

"we have kayo ult this round. let's rush A"
"we have breach ult. let's rush B"
"we have kj ult. let's retake"

due to the frequency of ults, you'll get this for at least 5 rounds in a TWELVE round half.

you think this is more complex than cs?

since there are so many more possibilities in val, thinking about cs makes it extremely monotone

if anything, this makes valorant monotone.

do i like CS more than valorant though? nah. valorant is fun as hell but I'm not gonna pretend that this game isn't way easier and simpler. when i watch cs, that shit is interesting because i actually have to think about what is going on in the players' heads. comp valorant isn't that interesting.

i ain't disagreeing with cs being very complex or whatever but please dont project ur experience with t5 comp valorant 'strats' onto actual pro play

FDWC- [#30]

https://www.twitch.tv/esl_csgo

come watch brother

its live rn

a good one too, c9 is a really tactical team

CryoZanderDerrekEnjoyer [#25]

Yo thanks for your answer. Now i understand it a little better. Honestly sounds very interesting. Might tune into some pro cs in the near future

You should watch ESL pro league season 17 it’s like halfway through playoffs if you down

CryoZanderDerrekEnjoyer [#23]

Yo thanks for ur geniune answer. I really like cs, used to play csgo, also played a tad bit of cs source (very nice game but the headshot hitboxes are gigantic lmao). Now since cs2 got announced, i got even more into cs

Really looking forward to watching pro cs. And dont worry about the essay. Atleast i got a non troll answer

NP man. The hostility on both sides is really sad considering each game teaches useful lessons for playing the other. when i played cs i used to spray way too much but valorant taught me to go for headshots instead and since ive improved massively in cs. Simillarly CSGO taught me a lot of game sense thats useful in valorant too, such as reading your opponent.
I think both games have a place in esports and CS players should thank valorant for this update since it wouldnt have happened without val, and Valorant players should be excited how riot will try to match this big update as their new content has slowed down in 2022.
Both games have great qualities, and competition is always good for consumers

Also at 8 CEST Theres a great game for watching advanced strats used in pro play
Heroic is known for their amazing reads on rotations and always stacking t he right bombsite and theyre playing against s1mple so thats always exciting. Deffinitely a great way to get into and understand pro cs

Bubbiewubbie [#35]

NP man. The hostility on both sides is really sad considering each game teaches useful lessons for playing the other. when i played cs i used to spray way too much but valorant taught me to go for headshots instead and since ive improved massively in cs. Simillarly CSGO taught me a lot of game sense thats useful in valorant too, such as reading your opponent.
I think both games have a place in esports and CS players should thank valorant for this update since it wouldnt have happened without val, and Valorant players should be excited how riot will try to match this big update as their new content has slowed down in 2022.
Both games have great qualities, and competition is always good for consumers

Also at 8 CEST Theres a great game for watching advanced strats used in pro play
Heroic is known for their amazing reads on rotations and always stacking t he right bombsite and theyre playing against s1mple so thats always exciting. Deffinitely a great way to get into and understand pro cs

Thanks and Sure, will look into it.