Why would any Franchise org spend money on buyouts when they could just wait out the clock? The top players aren't going to renew, so it's likely these huge orgs will just chill with whatever players are there rn and then get the top players on a free.
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Franchise org financial decisions
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we don't know when the contracts expire, it could be up to a year for all we know
and they are competing against other teams to sign the best players, so getting in as soon as possible is the best strategy so you aren't left behind as an org and end up signing second or third options while the other teams get the top ones
Noodle [#2]what if some of the players they want still have several months left on their contract? would they really pass up the opportunity to have those players for Kickoff or Masters to save money?
Yeah. They're not losing anything by bombing out of Kickoff or Masters lol.
Don't forget, these orgs are literally paid by Riot to be in the league. There's no real incentive for them to win from what it seems.
luckypleb [#3]If they can't get the top players and keep what they have then they will embarass their region in kickoff brazil
Some of these orgs literally could not care less about that. Look at T1 and GEN.G.
Look at G2, literally ditched EMEA just for a spot in NA - you think they'd care? Obviously they're kicked out of the league but if an org could have this kind of mentality and get a spot, who's to say the orgs that are currently in the league wouldn't?
edit: why are people convinced orgs care about whether this will be a good look for their league or not lol, the LCS was fine with importing washed up KR players and doing badly.
then they will embarass their region in kickoff brazil
I seriously doubt any major org will have this as their priority.
TheHardStuckImmortal [#4]orgs have to roster lock by OCT 15th. They cannot wait out the contracts
https://twitter.com/purest/status/1572993026364153864?s=20&t=020OW8KS-qiKY7wVYJTHiw
TheHardStuckImmortal [#4]orgs have to roster lock by OCT 15th. They cannot wait out the contracts
They could literally grab any good enough pro for a roster, compete with them until the contracts of the players they want expire.
charizard_123 [#5]we don't know when the contracts expire, it could be up to a year for all we know
and they are competing against other teams to sign the best players, so getting in as soon as possible is the best strategy so you aren't left behind as an org and end up signing second or third options while the other teams get the top ones
Yeah, but I reckon that some of these pros have insane buyout clauses - it's likely they think financially it's better to wait it out. These guys are restricted F/As so it's all about establishing initial contact and maintaining their interest.
archetype [#10]Yeah, but I reckon that some of these pros have insane buyout clauses - it's likely they think financially it's better to wait it out. These guys are restricted F/As so it's all about establishing initial contact and maintaining their interest.
Not at all, it makes way more sense to get the good players first before you end up with a shit roster. And I doubt buyouts are an issue either, all the orgs selected have strong acquisitive power and the orgs that aren't partnered have nothing to play for so they're not helping anyone by setting insane buyouts. If they wait out, there's nothing stopping the players from just signing to other teams. I doubt "establishing contact" changes anything for them
archetype [#6]Yeah. They're not losing anything by bombing out of Kickoff or Masters lol.
Don't forget, these orgs are literally paid by Riot to be in the league. There's no real incentive for them to win from what it seems.
There's no real incentive for them to win from what it seems.
There's every possible incentive for them to win, from creating fanbases, win prizes, increasing air time, etc.
And the good players are gonna want to be in those tournaments. If an org decides to run the clock down then another org will just snatch the player
charizard_123 [#12]There's no real incentive for them to win from what it seems.
There's every possible incentive for them to win, from creating fanbases, win prizes, increasing air time, etc.
And the good players are gonna want to be in those tournaments. If an org decides to run the clock down then another org will just snatch the player
There's every possible incentive for them to win, from creating fanbases, win prizes, increasing air time, etc.
These orgs are heavily established. Look at SEN. They did not win shit nor do shit for the latter of 2021 and all of 2022, yet still have a huge fanbase. Doesn't mean anything. Plus nobody is going to take their position in the Franchise League.
And the good players are gonna want to be in those tournaments. If an org decides to run the clock down then another org will just snatch the player
It's a game of chicken.
archetype [#13]There's every possible incentive for them to win, from creating fanbases, win prizes, increasing air time, etc.
These orgs are heavily established. Look at SEN. They did not win shit nor do shit for the latter of 2021 and all of 2022, yet still have a huge fanbase. Doesn't mean anything. Plus nobody is going to take their position in the Franchise League.
And the good players are gonna want to be in those tournaments. If an org decides to run the clock down then another org will just snatch the player
It's a game of chicken.
Most orgs aren't heavily established, especially in Valorant. You mention SEN but most other orgs are actually trying to build followings, and there's no guarantee that if they continue in their free fall trajectory that they lose their fanbase, tenz leaves them, etc. And the orgs are on contracts, they don't own their spots in the league, Riot could perfectly replace them in 4 years or even earlier if they consider they aren't fulfilling their standards
And its not a game of chicken since most orgs are acting already.
charizard_123 [#11]Not at all, it makes way more sense to get the good players first before you end up with a shit roster. And I doubt buyouts are an issue either, all the orgs selected have strong acquisitive power and the orgs that aren't partnered have nothing to play for so they're not helping anyone by setting insane buyouts. If they wait out, there's nothing stopping the players from just signing to other teams. I doubt "establishing contact" changes anything for them
Not at all, it makes way more sense to get the good players first before you end up with a shit roster.
Yeah, on paper. But with how inflated the Valorant scene is (especially in NA) the buyouts are going to be high - arguably too high.
Just because these orgs have high financial freedom doesn't mean they're willing to drop the bag on buying out all these restricted F/As - they will likely prioritise any good F/As from OpTic/FPX/M3C/etc and wait until the restricted F/As run down their contracts, because there's more financial gain from acquiring good players on a free after a bad tournament instead of paying out a chunk of change.
Don't forget SEN acquired TenZ and did nothing after winning Iceland. I reckon most orgs will have that in mind when considering whether to drop money on the next big thing.
charizard_123 [#15]Most orgs aren't heavily established, especially in Valorant. You mention SEN but most other orgs are actually trying to build followings, and there's no guarantee that if they continue in their free fall trajectory that they lose their fanbase, tenz leaves them, etc. And the orgs are on contracts, they don't own their spots in the league, Riot could perfectly replace them in 4 years or even earlier if they consider they aren't fulfilling their standards
And its not a game of chicken since most orgs are acting already.
Team Liquid, already established.
KOI, KCORP, already huge orgs in their country.
BBL, FNC, NAVI, Vitality - all established names.
Only FUT, Heretics, and Giants are questionable. But even Heretics acquired an LEC slot.
NA:
100T, C9, EG, FURIA, MIBR, NRG, SEN - these are all established orgs.
Only MiBR isn't established in the Valorant scene. Leviatan, LOUD, and KRU are either big or have an established fanbase in the scene within their region.
APAC:
PRX, DRX, ZETA, DNG, GEN.G, T1, GE, TS - all established.
PSG.Talon and RRQ aren't as popular/well-known but Talon is already a big enough name in League and especially DOTA 2 and from what I know RRQ is big in the PH.
Riot could perfectly replace them in 4 years or even earlier if they consider they aren't fulfilling their standards
That is irrelevant. The timespan I'm talking about is just until major player contracts run out, which will be within next year, probably before Q2/Q3. This early period isn't going to resonate for the next 4 years - there will always be talent, arguably it will be easier to scout talent with the way Tier 2 is being run. Obviously orgs are just being financially aware - it's very possible they aren't willing to drop the bag and are glad to continue with either their current rosters (with some minor changes) and just wait until restricted F/As became unrestricted F/As. This doesn't mean they'll continue this practice for the rest of the duration of their contract.
ItsMeDio [#14]wait, frick. RRQ def see this thread. f u archetype
I'm also making this thread based off what I've heard within the scene. People downvoting me for some reason lol, but there's merit to the idea imo.
archetype [#16]Not at all, it makes way more sense to get the good players first before you end up with a shit roster.
Yeah, on paper. But with how inflated the Valorant scene is (especially in NA) the buyouts are going to be high - arguably too high.
Just because these orgs have high financial freedom doesn't mean they're willing to drop the bag on buying out all these restricted F/As - they will likely prioritise any good F/As from OpTic/FPX/M3C/etc and wait until the restricted F/As run down their contracts, because there's more financial gain from acquiring good players on a free after a bad tournament instead of paying out a chunk of change.Don't forget SEN acquired TenZ and did nothing after winning Iceland. I reckon most orgs will have that in mind when considering whether to drop money on the next big thing.
- they will likely prioritise any good F/As from OpTic/FPX and wait until the restricted F/As run down their contracts, because there's more financial gain from acquiring good players on a free after a bad tournament instead of paying out a chunk of change.
As far as I know, only crashies and victor are unrestriced F/A in OpTic, and I don't think any of the FPX players are out of contract either. if anybody wants to sign yay, marved or fns, they'd have to pay buyouts to OpTic. Is this what you mean?
charizard_123 [#19]
- they will likely prioritise any good F/As from OpTic/FPX and wait until the restricted F/As run down their contracts, because there's more financial gain from acquiring good players on a free after a bad tournament instead of paying out a chunk of change.
As far as I know, only crashies and victor are unrestriced F/A in OpTic, and I don't think any of the FPX players are out of contract either. if anybody wants to sign yay, marved or fns, they'd have to pay buyouts to OpTic. Is this what you mean?
I'm speaking generally. The M3C players are also F/A.
Orgs are gonna prioritise good players they can pick up for free - obviously.
But they will also keep in mind the investment that goes into buyout clauses. Like I said, TenZ had the highest buyout clause in Valorant history and SEN fell off the pro scene less than half a year later. This is obviously going to be a factor when orgs consider dropping the bag for buyouts.
I'm somewhat sure some orgs are content to wait and be frugal regarding their early investments - don't forget, some of these orgs have already gotten into the league with minimal investment in the first place.
archetype [#17]Team Liquid, already established.
KOI, KCORP, already huge orgs in their country.
BBL, FNC, NAVI, Vitality - all established names.
Only FUT, Heretics, and Giants are questionable. But even Heretics acquired an LEC slot.NA:
100T, C9, EG, FURIA, MIBR, NRG, SEN - these are all established orgs.
Only MiBR isn't established in the Valorant scene. Leviatan, LOUD, and KRU are either big or have an established fanbase in the scene within their region.APAC:
PRX, DRX, ZETA, DNG, GEN.G, T1, GE, TS - all established.
PSG.Talon and RRQ aren't as popular/well-known but Talon is already a big enough name in League and especially DOTA 2 and from what I know RRQ is big in the PH.Riot could perfectly replace them in 4 years or even earlier if they consider they aren't fulfilling their standards
That is irrelevant. The timespan I'm talking about is just until major player contracts run out, which will be within next year, probably before Q2/Q3. This early period isn't going to resonate for the next 4 years - there will always be talent, arguably it will be easier to scout talent with the way Tier 2 is being run. Obviously orgs are just being financially aware - it's very possible they aren't willing to drop the bag and are glad to continue with either their current rosters (with some minor changes) and just wait until restricted F/As became unrestricted F/As. This doesn't mean they'll continue this practice for the rest of the duration of their contract.
None of those orgs are even close to fanbase as Sentinels in Valorant though? Why make an example out of the outliers of all possible outliers.
Riot would definetely take notice if an org decides to not try for the kick off tournament or masters as you suggested earlier. I could see maybe an emea/pacific org that isn't as rich, but in the context of NA, being financially aware seems way closer to actually trying in the biggest LAN tournament of val history rather than saving 1 or 2 hundred thousand on a buyout, for a player that you don't even know if will be available by the time their current contract ends
charizard_123 [#22]None of those orgs are even close to fanbase as Sentinels in Valorant though? Why make an example out of the outliers of all possible outliers.
Riot would definetely take notice if an org decides to not try for the kick off tournament or masters as you suggested earlier. I could see maybe an emea/pacific org that isn't as rich, but in the context of NA, being financially aware seems way closer to actually trying in the biggest LAN tournament of val history rather than saving 1 or 2 hundred thousand on a buyout, for a player that you don't even know if will be available by the time their current contract ends
Yeah, relatively speaking no org pulls as much as SEN, but on their own these orgs are fine as it is regarding their fanbase/viewership/establishment. KCorp never made it out of VRL but still have a big fanbase. BBL didn't do much in VCT EMEA either but they're pretty big too.
Riot would definetely take notice if an org decides to not try for the kick off tournament or masters as you suggested earlier.
Riot's not gonna care until this behaviour stretches into the year. This 30 team kickoff doesn't mean much for the org's relationship with Riot. Why should it? There's still another Masters and the actual league season and Champions and LCQ for them to build up their image/relationship. Do you think Riot's seriously going to consider severing an org's partnership because they weren't willing to drop huge numbers on buying out players?
Being financially aware seems way closer to actually trying in the biggest LAN tournament of val history rather than saving 1 or 2 hundred thousand on a buyout
It's only the biggest LAN tournament of val history so far, it's been only 2 years and it's going to be just a few months since the beginning of the Partnership leagues. It's not going to be that big of a deal, and I'm sure orgs are looking for the long run instead of going all in just because there's a 30 team kickoff tournament. This LAN, while big, is obviously not going to be as important as Champions.
archetype [#21]I'm speaking generally. The M3C players are also F/A.
Orgs are gonna prioritise good players they can pick up for free - obviously.
But they will also keep in mind the investment that goes into buyout clauses. Like I said, TenZ had the highest buyout clause in Valorant history and SEN fell off the pro scene less than half a year later. This is obviously going to be a factor when orgs consider dropping the bag for buyouts.
I'm somewhat sure some orgs are content to wait and be frugal regarding their early investments - don't forget, some of these orgs have already gotten into the league with minimal investment in the first place.
I dont understand the Tenz buyout argument, that mill basically secured sen of a partnered spot even before the system was announced, and none of these orgs are gonna ask as much as c9 considering the circumstances of the sen deal (them being literally the best team in the world at the time) and the circumstances of the teams left out (they have nothing to play for and are holding players with insane salaries)
I just fail to see why you dont think a team would want to pay a buy out for high demand players like yay/marved/fns/cryo/zekken who are 100% getting picked up if you decide to wait the clock, when those are possible history defining transfers for a team
charizard_123 [#24]I dont understand the Tenz buyout argument, that mill basically secured sen of a partnered spot even before the system was announced, and none of these orgs are gonna ask as much as c9 considering the circumstances of the sen deal (them being literally the best team in the world at the time) and the circumstances of the teams left out (they have nothing to play for and are holding players with insane salaries)
I just fail to see why you dont think a team would want to pay a buy out for high demand players like yay/marved/fns/cryo/zekken who are 100% getting picked up if you decide to wait the clock, when those are possible history defining transfers for a team
that mill basically secured sen of a partnered spot even before the system was announced
You're not sure about that. It could also be the Shroud signing, it could be all of these factors. This is just speculation. And more importantly, say it did secure SEN partnership. What now? These orgs are already partnered, so what's another TenZ going to do? Put these teams in the partnership of a partnership?
and none of these orgs are gonna ask as much as c9 considering the circumstances of the sen deal (them being literally the best team in the world at the time)
Your timeline is wrong. SEN were not the best team in the world at the time, they became the best AFTER they secured TenZ. In fact, SEN lost to NV during Challengers 2, thus making them 2nd seed for Masters 1 - that was after they picked up TenZ.
I just fail to see why you dont think a team would want to pay a buy out for high demand players like yay/marved/fns/cryo/zekken who are 100% getting picked up if you decide to wait the clock, when those are possible history defining transfers for a team
They'll be picked up, I'm not saying no org will be willing to buy them out, but I am saying most/a lot of orgs will be perfectly content fielding the roster they have and waiting out the contracts of other players. What about BcJ? What about Dephh? What about Zander? What about all these players that aren't the best at their role but are still locked into their contract? They're not going to be the ultimate priority - it's possible orgs will be fine waiting for these contracts to run out. Don't forget that there are only 50 (60 actually, but no one wants to be on the bench) player spots per league, and all of the partnered teams already have a core roster.
archetype [#9]They could literally grab any good enough pro for a roster, compete with them until the contracts of the players they want expire.
But not every team will wait, so organising will lose out on talent if even one team decides to buy out the contracts.
unknown_trash [#26]But not every team will wait, so organising will lose out on talent if even one team decides to buy out the contracts.
No, not every team will wait. It's possible some orgs will pick up one superstar player with the intent of reselling. But most orgs will definitely not be willing to buy out players.
https://twitter.com/_SushantJha/status/1573574523479531520?s=20&t=gi3y7zOuAchghzlsBdQhTw
would ya look at that
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