I keep hearing that statement so much and all the proof that people provide is like in the game against faze how yay wasnt the ONLY one fragging. Marved was also there with him and this becomes the reasoning as to why Optic dont need yay to frag. Thing is, to my memory everytime Yay doesnt absolutely go off or at the very least is having a good game (other than the match with DRX tho that was more yay getting avoided sooo...) Optic tend to lose.
Thing is with Yay is that theres almost never any games where he isnt at least second frag and that just means that its not that they dont need him to frag its more like they can always rely on him to frag.
So anyway i been wondering, what are all the games that Optic/Envy won even though Yay wasnt either fragging out or having a decent game?
"yay doesnt need to frag"
Cole_ [#2]bro theyre the best in the world they dont rely on just yay to frag, victor was insane on the neon all event and marved seemed to clutch up all the time.
you dont become the best team in the world relying on one player.
ur not best in the world for winning a masters. And fpx and fnatic (derke) didn't play. M3C still owns optic.
Win champions and ur the best
61Hiko [#6]ur not best in the world for winning a masters. And fpx and fnatic (derke) didn't play. M3C still owns optic.
Win champions and ur the best
yes you are lol, that's literally the entire point of masters. it doesn't mean they're going to be best in the world permanently, but they are right now. there's no other way you could prove this, so are you saying no one is the best? what? champions isn't on right now? how is that fair? there's very little difference between masters and champions, it's just champions is at the end of the year with bigger prize pools (and slightly more players perhaps?).
I agree that FPX and fnatic are both really good teams and I too believe that they would've rolled the competition had they been on form, but they didn't, and now FNC roster has changed (plus baddyg no longer on FPX) and the game has progressed, so there's no way you can even claim this.
uyheehe [#4]pretty much all 4 players besides pujan have insane mechanics
FNS clutches up big time though. He can frag when he's not brewing strategical potions in the alchemy drug lab that is his head. The legend of Punjabi Methamphetamine.
61Hiko [#6]ur not best in the world for winning a masters. And fpx and fnatic (derke) didn't play. M3C still owns optic.
Win champions and ur the best
"Win champions and ur the best" look at ur flair
wiki [#7]yes you are lol, that's literally the entire point of masters. it doesn't mean they're going to be best in the world permanently, but they are right now. there's no other way you could prove this, so are you saying no one is the best? what? champions isn't on right now? how is that fair? there's very little difference between masters and champions, it's just champions is at the end of the year with bigger prize pools (and slightly more players perhaps?).
I agree that FPX and fnatic are both really good teams and I too believe that they would've rolled the competition had they been on form, but they didn't, and now FNC roster has changed (plus baddyg no longer on FPX) and the game has progressed, so there's no way you can even claim this.
"had they been on form" Did u even follow the tournament
FPX couldn't attend Masters Iceland and they rolled over EMEA teams, and that with a stand in.
Fnatic no derke doesn'T mean not in form + BraveAF was their 2nd best player and he couldn't play either.
Ur on hard copium thinking optic is the best team rn.
- I do believe that not even optic thinks, that they are the best.
ravicool [#10]"Win champions and ur the best" look at ur flair
I also didn't say that acend is the best rn. Flair means nothing and I enabled flair yesterday.
There is no best team, if the best teams didn't face or weren't competing without handicaps.
- I forgot to mention M3C being handicapped due to the stuff ongoing there.
Optic didn't play Fnatic with Derke and BraveAF (they didn't face at all)
Optic didn't play FPX (couldn't attend iceland)
Optic didn't play Gambit (M3C) (coz of conflict). And u remember what happened last time + Gambit also placed 2nd in Champions
any of these teams win against the current optic
yay always frags because Optic systrem is very well made, FNS took a lot of the fundamentals about positions from CS and applies them very well to valorant, yay always frags because he is allowed to play a lot of different positions where he can find impact easily both on T and CT side, his mechanics are also insane but if you remember, FNS managed to make Mummays operator skill look good back in the day, it's all about giving yay easy peeks most of the time or peeks that he practiced hundred of times, teams can only try to avoid him, but if they avoid yay, they still have to deal with Marved and Victor, who both play to cover positions that teams will funnel into to avoid yay, like Long B on Icebox(always held by marved on Viper and he always pops off by playing around his smokes) thats why you always see yay, marved and victor popping off, FNS makes them play off each other so that no strat can escape from facing one of them on CT, in T side its even harder cause they always use util to set up an early operator peek and there's no way playing around that unless you are seriously committing utility, which is also bad, cause its all utility you wont have for retakes.
Yay always popping off is a result of playing structured and cynical valorant, not Optic overly relying on him to pop off like Sentinels with TenZ or Ghost with koala+nismo, those teams are more "free-form" and thus they need their duelist to go for hard entries, which require reaction times and are thus more inconsistenty than yay's studied and drilled peeks
uyheehe [#4]pretty much all 4 players besides pujan have insane mechanics
true fns is a dead weight yay has to carry
wiki [#7]yes you are lol, that's literally the entire point of masters. it doesn't mean they're going to be best in the world permanently, but they are right now. there's no other way you could prove this, so are you saying no one is the best? what? champions isn't on right now? how is that fair? there's very little difference between masters and champions, it's just champions is at the end of the year with bigger prize pools (and slightly more players perhaps?).
I agree that FPX and fnatic are both really good teams and I too believe that they would've rolled the competition had they been on form, but they didn't, and now FNC roster has changed (plus baddyg no longer on FPX) and the game has progressed, so there's no way you can even claim this.
you literally can, literally, the best teams weren't able to attend or play their best teams. Pretty sure Chet said that Gambit is the best team even after winning masters
61Hiko [#11]"had they been on form" Did u even follow the tournament
FPX couldn't attend Masters Iceland and they rolled over EMEA teams, and that with a stand in.
Fnatic no derke doesn'T mean not in form + BraveAF was their 2nd best player and he couldn't play either.
Ur on hard copium thinking optic is the best team rn.
- I do believe that not even optic thinks, that they are the best.
That's what I meant by had been on form, I was using it to describe both FNC and FPX. Yes I did follow the tournament, LMAO. I'm not on hard copium, I literally wanted fnatic to win LOL. Look at my flag, do I look like an NA fan to you? The only difference is I think that you're so biased to your region by essentially suggesting this masters doesn't count in terms of ranking, which it absolutely does.
Again, I don't doubt that FPX and FNC would have won the tournament, as I already stated had it worked out in their favour, but they didn't and didn't play many games, meaning they've now fallen behind on the world stage.
Your argument is pure speculation really, FPX haven't even played at an inter-regional level yet.
vern [#17]you literally can, literally, the best teams weren't able to attend or play their best teams. Pretty sure Chet said that Gambit is the best team even after winning masters
I don't think he did but OPTIC did indeed say EU is the best region, which I agree with. That still doesn't mean that OPTIC can't call themselves the best team.
None of the teams you mention have played at an international level, so how can you call them the "the best teams", unless you're talking about EMEA challengers?
61Hiko [#12]I also didn't say that acend is the best rn. Flair means nothing and I enabled flair yesterday.
There is no best team, if the best teams didn't face or weren't competing without handicaps.
- I forgot to mention M3C being handicapped due to the stuff ongoing there.
Optic didn't play Fnatic with Derke and BraveAF (they didn't face at all)
Optic didn't play FPX (couldn't attend iceland)
Optic didn't play Gambit (M3C) (coz of conflict). And u remember what happened last time + Gambit also placed 2nd in Champions
any of these teams win against the current optic
That's not what ravicool said though lmao, he's suggesting you only value champions because Acend won it. What makes champions qualifiable for the best in the world and masters not?
wiki [#19]I don't think he did but OPTIC did indeed say EU is the best region, which I agree with. That still doesn't mean that OPTIC can't call themselves the best team.
None of the teams you mention have played at an international level, so how can you call them the "the best teams", unless you're talking about EMEA challengers?
https://www.vlr.gg/94800/optic-chet-on-gambit
Wasnt exactly that but yh. He said if the replicated scrims etc, they would be best ig?
wait LMFAO, i mentioned Gambit. What do you mean gambit haven't played at an international event?
wiki [#18]That's what I meant by had been on form, I was using it to describe both FNC and FPX. Yes I did follow the tournament, LMAO. I'm not on hard copium, I literally wanted fnatic to win LOL. Look at my flag, do I look like an NA fan to you? The only difference is I think that you're so biased to your region by essentially suggesting this masters doesn't count in terms of ranking, which it absolutely does.
Again, I don't doubt that FPX and FNC would have won the tournament, as I already stated had it worked out in their favour, but they didn't and didn't play many games, meaning they've now fallen behind on the world stage.
Your argument is pure speculation really, FPX haven't even played at an inter-regional level yet.
This is a good point. Even if some EMEA team would've won the whole thing if they were full strength/attending, the fact of the matter is they didn't. I also think anyone saying Optic was a fluke or that they played badly obviously didn't watch the matches. The quality of gameplay between Optic and Loud was amazing, and I'm only more excited for future confrontations between those two with other great teams like M3C, FPX, and Fnatic.
DaDoar [#15]yay always frags because Optic systrem is very well made, FNS took a lot of the fundamentals about positions from CS and applies them very well to valorant, yay always frags because he is allowed to play a lot of different positions where he can find impact easily both on T and CT side, his mechanics are also insane but if you remember, FNS managed to make Mummays operator skill look good back in the day, it's all about giving yay easy peeks most of the time or peeks that he practiced hundred of times, teams can only try to avoid him, but if they avoid yay, they still have to deal with Marved and Victor, who both play to cover positions that teams will funnel into to avoid yay, like Long B on Icebox(always held by marved on Viper and he always pops off by playing around his smokes) thats why you always see yay, marved and victor popping off, FNS makes them play off each other so that no strat can escape from facing one of them on CT, in T side its even harder cause they always use util to set up an early operator peek and there's no way playing around that unless you are seriously committing utility, which is also bad, cause its all utility you wont have for retakes.
Yay always popping off is a result of playing structured and cynical valorant, not Optic overly relying on him to pop off like Sentinels with TenZ or Ghost with koala+nismo, those teams are more "free-form" and thus they need their duelist to go for hard entries, which require reaction times and are thus more inconsistenty than yay's studied and drilled peeks
I honestly don't think ghost is THAT free form and I see them working to be more structured everyday. Sen is a great comparison tho, and a great proof as to why Optic is a step above that type of team.
zardinez [#24]I honestly don't think ghost is THAT free form and I see them working to be more structured everyday. Sen is a great comparison tho, and a great proof as to why Optic is a step above that type of team.
I used Ghost as an example because they are clearly a team that is working towards a structure but still need to figure out stuff, they have some maps that look very structured(Fracture) but on others they completely rely on Koala and/or Nismo to find the crazy shots(Haven yesterday is a p good example of this), they are also one of the teams with the lowest winrate when their duelists dont pop off along with sentinels.
Sentinels as you said is the perfect comparison, you just need to see how tenz enters sites on T side, its very adrenalinic and reaction times based, with lots of close up shots and every possible flash thrown to support him, TenZ makes it work cause he's incredibly gifted mechanically, but those kind of entries cant be practiced consistently and thats why Sentinels are becoming inconsistent, along with teams getting better both mechanically and tactically around them, I think the future of valorant is definetely Optic's playstyle and Masters showed it, with even the other top 4 teams playing more structured(Especially ZETA)
vern [#21]https://www.vlr.gg/94800/optic-chet-on-gambit
Wasnt exactly that but yh. He said if the replicated scrims etc, they would be best ig?
wait LMFAO, i mentioned Gambit. What do you mean gambit haven't played at an international event?
you said the "best teams" and m3c didn't even qualify so I assumed you were referring to FPX
wiki [#26]you said the "best teams" and m3c didn't even qualify so I assumed you were referring to FPX
+fnatic and even if gambit did qual, they still wouldnt be allowed to play
Yay always frags because of how FNS's system in optic made. Optic has 4 people to set yay up to make him a godlike fragger, that's why optic is the best in the world because they don't need the star player set them up like how Sentinels heavily rely on TenZ entry and making space, TenZ died on early round then 85% Sentinels would lose that round. If yay doesn't frag but it most likely not gonna happen, then 3 other players are still insane and FNS's mid round calls also insane.
vern [#27]+fnatic and even if gambit did qual, they still wouldnt be allowed to play
Yeah, but anyway, the game has changed since then and Chet is right that of course they would give them a run for their money. He said they were the best EU but isn't really right, being proven by our current game and this once again backs up my point that after tournaments like masters entire metas are changed and M3C clearly haven't kept up with that.
wiki [#20]That's not what ravicool said though lmao, he's suggesting you only value champions because Acend won it. What makes champions qualifiable for the best in the world and masters not?
u play multiple masters and it's safer in the long run, that really the best teams play champions. U can fck up 1 masters get unlucky or whatever and get points on second and make champions. In champs, u have ur best teams from ur region. Unlike in masters, where it's not always the case (like it was this masters, same as masters 1 last year without gambit and fpx)
61Hiko [#31]u play multiple masters and it's safer in the long run, that really the best teams play champions. U can fck up 1 masters get unlucky or whatever and get points on second and make champions. In champs, u have ur best teams from ur region. Unlike in masters, where it's not always the case (like it was this masters, same as masters 1 last year without gambit and fpx)
you play two masters a year lol. "Its safer in the long run" ???. in masters you also have the best teams from the region lmao. Champions doesn't bypass things such as travel restrictions and quarantines LMAO. what on earth are you talking about?
wiki [#32]you play two masters a year lol. "Its safer in the long run" ???. in masters you also have the best teams from the region lmao. Champions doesn't bypass things such as travel restrictions and quarantines LMAO. what on earth are you talking about?
c9> guard. if optic would have choked, u would say. But we didn't send our best teams, c9 would have had a better run.
It is like that.
In masters iceland 2021, there were only 10 teams and EMEA only had 2 slots with multiple regions in it, playing 2 regionals. CIS EMEA; TR EMEA; EU EMEA.
Gambit -> Liquid any day,
Acend was rolling over everyone and then got unlucky Without lower bracket. 2x 12-14 https://www.vlr.gg/event/375/champions-tour-europe-stage-2-challengers-2/main-event
The match before that was against fnatic with dominant maps and 1 close loss
https://www.vlr.gg/16337/acend-vs-fnatic-champions-tour-europe-stage-2-challengers-2-qf/?game=30445&tab=overview (seeding)
61Hiko [#33]c9> guard. if optic would have choked, u would say. But we didn't send our best teams, c9 would have had a better run.
It is like that.
In masters iceland 2021, there were only 10 teams and EMEA only had 2 slots with multiple regions in it, playing 2 regionals. CIS EMEA; TR EMEA; EU EMEA.
Gambit -> Liquid any day,
Acend was rolling over everyone and then got unlucky Without lower bracket. 2x 12-14 https://www.vlr.gg/event/375/champions-tour-europe-stage-2-challengers-2/main-event
The match before that was against fnatic with dominant maps and 1 close loss
https://www.vlr.gg/16337/acend-vs-fnatic-champions-tour-europe-stage-2-challengers-2-qf/?game=30445&tab=overview (seeding)
I know EMEA didn't send the best teams my guy lol, but that doesn't matter, even though they literally did except for FPX. You're ignoring my entire argument - the game has changed during the tournament, have you not watched both optic and zeta improve to undoubtedly overtake them? They were the best at the time. Now they aren't.
That's not unlucky lmao, they lost to vitality, a good team shouldn't get upset. Besides, that's literally the 2021 circuit and the challengers playoffs format is far different now and there is a lower bracket, so your argument makes no sense.
How many times do I have to say this? Something exists called time, you keep ignoring it. As soon as a match ends, teams focuses on their mistakes for the rematch and build and develop. FPX are not even the best team in EMEA(as proved yesterday) anymore, which once again proves my point
Stop ignoring everything I'm saying and continuing with this nonsensical speculation that really is just so salty.
Your opening line isn't even readable, really setting the precedent for your entire argument...
wiki [#34]I know EMEA didn't send the best teams my guy lol, but that doesn't matter, even though they literally did except for FPX. You're ignoring my entire argument - the game has changed during the tournament, have you not watched both optic and zeta improve to undoubtedly overtake them? They were the best at the time. Now they aren't.
That's not unlucky lmao, they lost to vitality, a good team shouldn't get upset. Besides, that's literally the 2021 circuit and the challengers playoffs format is far different now and there is a lower bracket, so your argument makes no sense.
How many times do I have to say this? Something exists called time, you keep ignoring it. As soon as a match ends, teams focuses on their mistakes for the rematch and build and develop. FPX are not even the best team in EMEA(as proved yesterday) anymore, which once again proves my point
Stop ignoring everything I'm saying and continuing with this nonsensical speculation that really is just so salty.
Your opening line isn't even readable, really setting the precedent for your entire argument...
"a good team shouldn't get upset" wtf is the point of an upset then rofl
FightWasTaken [#35]"a good team shouldn't get upset" wtf is the point of an upset then rofl
A good team shouldn't get upset because they are good? What is your argument? The point of an upset is indeed where a good team gets beaten by a less bad team, but are you somehow under the impression these should occur?
wiki [#36]A good team shouldn't get upset because they are good? What is your argument? The point of an upset is indeed where a good team gets beaten by a less bad team, but are you somehow under the impression these should occur?
it will always happen in valorant and has always happened
61Hiko [#6]ur not best in the world for winning a masters. And fpx and fnatic (derke) didn't play. M3C still owns optic.
Win champions and ur the best
M3C just lost to my bby guild
FightWasTaken [#37]it will always happen in valorant and has always happened
I know it has happened lmao, that's not what I'm arguing, I'm saying if its a good team they shouldn't let it happen to them
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