Also, chronicle is a big reason why both fnc and gambit were considered super teams in the first place

I think pacific fans glaze forsaken, which they should, but NA fans as well since they have a rivalry with EU and don’t want to give credit. I think it’s a pretty close debate but if either of them is the undeniable flex goat its chronicle not forsaken.

Hasn’t he played some flash as well? Or is it only gekko. Tbh scan initiators in NA are also a weakpoint other than Trent. That’s the problem, because other than Trent, narrates prolly the best at his role so it’s hard to replace him.

I don’t recall chron being a particularly good chamber? Maybe I’m misremembering but I always thought nats was gambits best chamber. Forsaken had some nice performance in chamber at Copenhagen tho

In pacific league 23, arguably at champs 23 as well. Davai played better at some of the regionals in 24 and at champs 23, jingg played better at masters Tokyo
Forsaken was his teams best player at tonronto and copenhagen, maybe at Madrid?

If you care about a team you care more about their shortcomings too.
Idc if a random on the street is a crackhead but if my sister is in a lot more worried for an example

I don’t think narrate being inconsistent is that big of an issue, no flash initiator is really consistent in valorant. I agree that sen keep trolling roles in certain maps tho.

Eye test favors aggressive players, but getting 1kill 4 rounds in a row is better than 4 kills in 1 round. Also, forsaken majority played smokes in Toronto as well, only occasionally initiator.

The revisionist history NEEDS to stop. Forsaken is the best prx player because he’s the most consistent, but something, jinggg, and davai have 100% played better than forsaken at different tournaments throughout prx’s peaks (Tokyo, champs 23, pac league 23).

Also chronicle was as good as nats on gambit. Nats was better than him in Berlin and chronicle was better at champs. I’m not using trophies as an argument, looking at purely individual performance, Chron is just better internationally.

I think Xeppaa needs to play aggro flashes. When c9 had a lot of success was when leaf played duelist and Xeppaa also played aggro flashes/raze. Leaf isn’t a hard entry duelist either, so that combo worked out very well.

They play better when they have space to get more favorable duels. It’s fine being a hard entry if your support players/trade fraggers are insane, but those players on both teams have been inconsistent this year.

It’s only a slight downgrade tho imo. The problem is bang is the wrong type of player to replace tenz with.

I’d agree as well. They should move John to senti and let zellsis play initiator as well on double duelist maps

Bang imo is a firepower sidegrade to tenz on smokes, but he’s a an anchor/lurker while tenz is a bigggg X factor.

Both of these teams are forcing their carry (Zekken and OXY) to be the hard entry. However, both of these players played best when they had another aggro player to help them.

On xset, Zekken struggled a bit more because he was the hard entry for cryo. Oxy has also been inconsistent for similar reasons. Zekken best tournament happened with tenz who took a lot of pressure off of Zekken and played aggro with him; some of oxy’s best performances has been when Xeppaa also played a lot of double duelist with him during the regular season split1.

Forsaken was definitely better than chronicle at Toronto and champs 23. Chronicle was better in Berlin, champs 21, better in lock-in, better at Tokyo, better at champs 24.

Which agents does forsaken play at a higher level than chron?
I think chron is a better viper, kay0, vyse, kj, cypher, sova, breach, skye than forsaken. I think forsaken is a better Jett, omen, astra, chamber, fade, neon, and yoru than chron (obv chronicle don’t really play neon or yoru). Raze is an interesting question because neither have many games on her.

1v1s don’t really matter in a 5v5 game, realistically some random radiants could beat a pro player in a 1v1

Forsaken rarely plays duelist anymore, so if you include that then you have to include chronicle also playing recon initiator
Chronicle played initiator and duelist on gambit, initiator (scan after Leo left and flash) + viper, and now plays 3 roles (sentinel, viper, flash initiator). Just playing more agents doesn’t make you a better flex, chronicle is better than forsaken on most initiator and sentinel agents.

I’d only agree if you value international and regional performances equally
However internationally there is a pretty big gap in favor of chronicle, but chron has been on historically better teams which is what makes the debate close

I disagree. Why do you think forsaken is better individually? Chronicle has had way more impressive international tournaments than forsaken.

Why so? Chronicle plays a huge amount of agents really well too.

Who’s y’all’s goat flex? I have to go chronicle, he’s just put up way more impressive international tournaments (lock-in, Tokyo, champs 24, Toronto, Berlin, Berlin champs, EWC) compared to forsaken (Toronto, Copenhagen, champs 23). People criticize chronicle for only performing on super teams but despite prx’s individual success forsaken hasn’t really had many dominant tournaments globally.

Comparing their flex ability, chronicle is a better initiator and sentinel, while forsaken is a better smokes and duelist.

Agreed. He needs to learn to play his life in certain situations, but I think he will always have more impact than his stats imply.

Ur on crack, you need to look at Emea league in 23 and masters Tokyo
Leo and Alfa played well but chronicle was a massive part of both
Dude put up like 280 ACS every time he was on viper

He was low key gambits most consistent player in 21 no? Nats had higher peaks and was flashier but chron basically never had bad games

Jonahp is in breach jail, when he gets to play other agents, he frags out. Patmen has the most impactful kills imo (crucial trades and clutches) and asuna creates a lot of space. Cryo having to hard entry would low key fuck 100t hard since he’s their carry.

Which players do you think are underrated by stats goblins?

Here’s my list;

1. Patmen
2. Jonahp
3. Asuna (low key)

Jeezus Christ leaf doesn’t get nearly enough glaze

Optic won Reykjavik. FPX won Copenhagen. EG win champs. SEN won Madrid. T1 won Bangkok. Idk for sure how long double map bans have existed, but this seems to imply like half of the lower bracket teams win.

People were criticizing boaster for going -30, but he went -30 in a 4 map series against the best team in the world. Fns went -30 against kru in a bo3. Truly the GOAT igl 😂

This is a bo3 btw, so insane. Kaajak was pretty close vs th as well.

Forget Americas, for NA, who’s a good flex player? Narrate? Who else?

Curry when he has to peek Aspas and not a diamond player on a laptop 😰😱😱😱😰

Absolutely the fuck not, we are not dropping Derrek and narrate is so underrated Icl
It’s not his fault that sen keep trolling roles on icebox and ascent

Oh I misread that as he’s too good for EG
Thank you my goat WE (kru and EG) WILL be making champs this year

Do not bring him to my team, WE are just fine for now

The art of good rage baiting has been lost, you need to actually make it halfway believable at least

Walking towards waterfall is suicide since he’s bend there no? If he walks towards waterfall and narrate checks undersite (the first position he’s clearing there after close right, he sees him
Also narrate knows where Jawgemo is, he knows he’s around bend for sure, even if not exactly where (bend, right under box, or slightly to the left)
And yeah it’s a misplay because it’s on a bad angle but if they are going for a contact setup it’s the only setup they can have

It’s not a 50/50 aim fight because it’s a double peek from two opposite sides, but it was just slightly misplayed and on an awkward angle
The problem is that Jawgemo has to reposition to under box (if Trent jiggles) and that’s exactly the first position that narrates peeking
If Jawgemo reposition anywhere else then narrate is getting a duel on his while being out of Trent’s sight line

Ig we will have to wait to see the comms if they come out, but to me that looked like a contact setup where Trent or Jawgemo takes contact for the other to swing. Ultimately Trent can jiggle for info but then he chooses to swing because there’s no guarantee that Jawgemo is then able to live long enough for him to walk up to main. I think the repeal was a failed double swing, due to some kind of miscommunication.

The problem with ur idea of Trent purely playing for info is that while this helps Jawgemo out with safe info, it also turns it into two 1v1s, which ends up happening anyways sadly

Narrate is not at all worried about yoru being mound due to no tp sound and jawg being spotted site earlier, there’s a reason why he looks site after killing Trent and I guarantee someone on sen comms he hasn’t seen yoru yet

Also the problem with ur point is it’s a little bit hindsighty
It’s unlikely g2 were able to think of that scenario in the heat of the moment, they likely just played a contact swing (jawg or Trent swings off whoever gets contact first)

Narrate will still be worried about site since he only saw one player and usually if both are mound they will try and hold for the duel (if Trent jiggles)
The only way it could have worked is if Trent jiggles and then Jawgemo played under box while trent walks up to a main
Likely the call was for Jawgemo to swing off of Trent’s contact a main
This is not to mention Jawgemo is low and is 2 shot to a rifle which makes his chance of winning the duel with narrate less than 50-50

This is kinda prx no? They always have fun

Nothing wrong with baiting ur teammate, it’s a viable strategy in pro play granted it’s commed before hand
I don’t think Jawgemo deliberately did it either, prolly just tunnel visioned on not making a mistake and dying for free

And I’m not using throw in a very harsh manner, it was a 10-4 lead and you can’t blame that loss on one player

The reason why Trent repeaks there is to fight narrate for the site cross
He absolutely has to peak him there, if he only jiggles for info he loses the round because bomb isn’t planted for him
You can argue that he shouldn’t have left site at all, but he was prolly paranoid about waterfall

Sacy on omen >>>

I’m not scapegoating, just pointing out a mistake. Saw a lot of people blaming Trent and disagreed
It’s really not that serious

Unfortunately you could tell bro does not main sentinel when he died 4 rounds on a
His anchoring of defense was actually good tho Ngl

Prolly a 2-1, 11-13 corrode and 13-7 lotus

I’m the moment, it felt like Trent threw by committing to the fight, but it’s jaws fault

Trent has to hold site cross for Jawgemo. The bomb IS NOT planted for him mound, if Jawgemo dies Trent is fucked

It’s jaws fault for completely baiting Trent, it’s not like narrate one tapped Trent either he had time to swing and trade

Let’s put them on a team together, they have like 45% headshot percentage between them