| Flag: | United States |
| Registered: | June 15, 2023 |
| Last post: | November 20, 2024 at 3:00 AM |
| Posts: | 479 |
G2 was a lot more explosive during their Ascension run and only switched with the icy pick up. That original tempo actually had Trent performing as their best player and I’m hoping he comes back to form when they shift their pacing back to suit Jawgemo better.
JonahP was G2’s most impactful player at Shanghai and Zellsis carried Sen over that Madrid finish line. Trent was also widely considered TGRD’s best player from 2022-2023 and he’s just been uncharacteristically off form this year.
Also, proven players rarely fall off a cliff just because they’re on new rosters. Sheydos and Benkai absolutely still have it in them if you use an eye test but they’re on some of the weakest rosters in VCT history. It’s not like they abused a broken agent during their prime and now can’t keep up like a certain Chamber Merchant.
The Rossy pick up gives me faith but I’m equally concerned about his IGLing when they could just drop Xeppaa for Mitch.
100T have a map pool issue with Raze/Neon maps where Cryo’s impact takes a big hit. If they can elevate his smokes play or shove him onto chamber then I can see them making top 3.
NRG have good IGLing and a high ceiling with their new talent but I’m concerned about FNS’ firepower deficit and the strain it’ll put on their newer players.
3-5th is up for grabs and I could even see EG punching up if Potter can field a good roster. G2 should easily secure 1st and SEN shouldn’t have any problems smacking everyone else down beneath them for an easy 2nd though.
Ah, I thought I remembered him on TS’s roster when they qualified to an international but it seems like the last time was Champs 2021 with a slightly different roster. I’ll remove him shortly.
As for Rossy, he’s been T1’s most consistent player and fried at Shanghai despite the team crashing out. I suppose he has even less of a right to be on the list than Patitek though.
Fair enough. I just think the talent pool has grown enough that a lot of players could punch up if in the right system or environment. It wasn’t so much as a top 5 in every role list as much as a way to highlight players that I could see as keystones to a trophy-contending team based on prior performances.
My Top 5 would probably be:
Duelist: Zekken | T3xture | KK | Sayf | Aspas
Initiator: Leo | Riens | Ethan | N4rrate | Trexx
Flex: Chronicle | F0rsaken | JonahP | Mazino | Munchkin
Smokes: Karon | Smoggy | KiNgg | Mako | Valyn
Sentinels: Meteor | Benjyfishy | Chichoo | Leaf | Alfa
IGL: Boo | Valyn | nobody | Munchkin | JohnQT
Pacific just doesn’t have many proven IGLs. You could argue FNS should be there but his firepower disqualifies him from ever being considered a star player. I could also remove Benkai too huh
I didn’t realize Laz retired. I wanted to give Sugarz3ro some credit though since he literally carried ZETA to their only top 3 finish. Patitek has also shown he has the potential to be a star flex but he’s only had one opportunity (Shanghai). Trent isn’t much different when you remember that he was literally G2’s best player all of 2022-2023.
Life is a bit of a stretch but his showing at Shanghai was good and it seems disingenuous to deny fpx their flowers when they’ve had the absolute worst luck in playing tournament finalists in groups every time.
No I straight up considered grubinho. He has no international experience though and he’s only ever been on the worst rosters historically — TH in 2023 and KOI in 2024. He’s probably EMEA’s best smoker but he’s completely unproven on the international stage and even the best players choke.
I counted pretty much any player that can hard carry a map at an international. Patitek proved himself at Shanghai but I suppose you could disqualify him because he didn’t have prior history? I don’t really believe in flukes because every round is a slugfest at that level.
Americas has had at least 8 different teams represent them at internationals with at least top 4 finishes. There’s also the 2 imports in other regions that respectively carried their teams to internationals. EMEA by contrast has had 6 teams with lower average placements except from FNC. Pacific has even fewer representatives at 4 and China has 1.
Why does Americas have so many more proven, world-class players than the other regions? Is it because the other regions are rather top heavy and send the same rosters to represent them at internationals? Is it because the region is just overrated because of clout? What are your thoughts?
Americas (26)
EMEA (20)
Pacific (18)
China (13)
Edit: Removed Laz because he’s retired.
Edit: Removed Invy because I misremembered him at a LAN.
These are rough rankings that don’t actually illustrate the absolute differences. For example, Americas is utterly dominant at producing world class duelists but EMEA only holds a slight edge in the flex category.
Duelist: Americas | Pacific | China | EMEA
Initiator: EMEA | Americas | Pacific | China
Flex: EMEA | Pacific | Americas | China
Controller: Pacific | Americas | China | EMEA
Sentinel: EMEA | Americas | China | Pacific
IGL: Americas | EMEA | Pacific | China
SEN have enough firepower to be a trophy contenders.
Both Zekken and N4rrate are star fraggers while Bang has the potential to become one in the right system. Zellsis is one of the better flexes in the region and his intangibles definitely fill in the gaps for a team of young players. I’d like to see JohnQT regain his form but his IGLing is proven.
I’d say that their ceiling with this roster is a bit higher than their Madrid form.
Oh I didn’t know you could see the link as a preview XD. On mobile y’know?
Click on the chain link icon in the top ribbon. Two portions will show up in corresponding brackets. The text bracket is what you want the link to be read as while the link bracket is where you paste your link — this is super helpful when your link has a ton of text or characters. I’ll post an example.
I mean I could see one of FUT, NAVI, and TL pushing into the next tier but not because they’re punching up or competing for a Champs slot. It’d only be because they proved they’re better than the trash beneath them.
Don’t have much faith in any team but TH. The next three after all have some big questions to answer but with good potential. The bottom 8 teams will be muddy but I’ll be surprised if any of them qualify to an international.
It’s odd you think that’d apply with this particular team which has proven to be an international contender. You could join a good number of partnered orgs and have absolutely zero hopes of winning a trophy but having a “safe” spot — or you could join G2 and qualify to at least 2/3 internationals with a good shot at collecting at least one trophy.
World Class players want to win. Not just collect a salary playing it “safe”.
If you consider that NA also has one of the most condensed T2 scenes that consolidates all of the top talents into 3-4 teams, it makes it really easy to see which players were always meant to be T1 but didn’t have the opportunity. Contrast this with EMEA or APAC who have numerous smaller leagues that dilute talent and you can see why these T2 NA players are more desirable.
Importing these players is essentially pulling from another pool of T1 talent that is hungrier and more reliable.
Ange1 of course. He’s going to pull a Saadhak but successfully because he’s spent years training how to int properly.
On the other hand, I could see this team leaning heavily on Yoru since that’ll be meta too.
I’m pretty sure he’s going to G2. Should be fun to watch them hand TH their 5th 2nd Place trophy this year at RedBull Homegrounds!
He’s of German heritage but an American born I think? Either way, he’s never played in EMEA so I’d count him as an NA player.
Also, I wouldn’t count Johnqt as EMEA. He’s been competing in NA for nearly 4 years with only 5 official matches in MENA — the last being in November 2020.
Nationality doesn’t define your playstyle, but instead your community’s meta and culture. He’s moroccan by Nationality but an NA Valorant Player through and through.
Region specialties my guy. That’s what happens when a region has a specific role preference for their IGL and the other roles need star fraggers to compensate — it’s only started changing this year with the emergence of fragging IGLs.
EMEA: Controller IGLs
AMER: Sentinel and Initiator IGLs
APAC: Initiator IGLs
Not sure why you’re getting downvoted. He’s in the same category as nobody with the ability to pop off on certain rounds but inconsistent.
I can’t speak for everyone but I personally have noticed the quality of my games have dropped substantially with episode 9. I think all of the low immortal players got so fed up with the resets that many aren’t trying to climb up because they’re still playing the same people despite being in Ascendant. It’s like half the leaderboard was just demoted a rank but they’re still playing the same — just with less motivation to climb.
It’s bound to happen when the reward is just a buddy that you’ve already collected from prior episodes. Radiant is too far off for the average immortal player and the gap that starts between 100rr to 200rr explodes around 400rr. What’s the point to grinding it all out for the same reward?
I really wanna see those rank distribution charts because I’m pretty sure more than half of the players that were in immortal dropped to Ascendant and just stayed there.
Wait could LEV still pick up Derke??
Derke | c0m | KiNgg | Tex | Demon1 goes hard
So….
VIT is a Super team
G2 is a Super team
Am I missing anyone? Also, Trent could return back to his Ascension form where he looked like a Radiant Smurf in a Diamond lobby. Think G2 would be the 2025 version of prime FNC if that happens.
Edit: Now that I think about it, these are more like regional favorites instead of “super” teams that are guaranteed to take multiple trophies. Valorant has never had a true super team.
You’re missing a crucial part as to why him being a fragging deficit will be highly detrimental to their success.
NRG has a mediocre Defense relative to their Attack. FNS has world class midrounding but is a bad site anchor, resulting in unstable defaults. Yay made up for this with his Chamber during the Optic Era but it’s been a glaring hole in their system since.
FNS hasn’t gotten worse though. The teams around have just gotten better. Let me give you a foil to illustrate this: JohnQT.
Johnqt is obviously a better fragger but he’s also got a higher KAST on the same role. Averaging ~77% on sentinels compared to FNS’s ~67%. That’s 2-3 rounds where he’s contributing impact that FNS is not. Keep in mind that the impact he’s contributing is also more damage than utility — shouldering some of the burden away from his teammates and being self sufficient as an anchor.
These margins seem small but are massive when even the slightly mistake will cost you the round. FNS has beaten some of the other top IGLs in the past but he was heavily relying on his teammates to convert duels that he could not. Strategy means nothing if you can’t convert your 50s — that’s just an ironclad rule of the game.
Beating someone in the past also means very little when you’ve stagnated and they’ve improved alongside a more modern meta. It’s completely fair to say NRG will struggle because they always have, even during Optic — FNS’s fragging was always a sore spot and it cost them rounds all the time. The difference is that competition is more cutthroat now and the best teams will eviscerate you for even the smallest hint of a whiff.
Oh FNS is a great IGL. But it’s not like he’s significantly better than Valyn, Boo, JohnQT, nobody, Saadhak, or Munchkin. There are just going to be more rounds that he loses for NRG than ones that his IGLing will win because rounds ultimately end with duels. That clip with Starxo burning Rolling Thunder on C after a fake with Ardiis entry just isn’t going to happen against the very best teams.
Against teams with 3+ star fraggers who regularly get multifrags, you’re putting a ton of pressure on your other players to make up for the guy who can’t even trade in high pressure scenarios.
2024: 4 Matches | -47 | -11.75 Avg
2023: 26 Matches | -185 | -7.12 Avg
2022: 40 Matches | -307 | -7.68 Avg
2021: 60 Matches | -112 | -1.87 Avg
2021 includes a number of challenger open qualifiers for each of the three splits that inflated FNS’s stats because of weaker competition. Either way, he’s always been a fragging deficit and I’d wager it’ll only be more apparent next year with every competitor having consolidated top talent. What I noticed while recording the data was that whether he won or loss, he was almost always negative; the variance was whether it was by single or double digits. Think Lakia during Champs — it’ll practically be a 4v5 for NRG against teams who have a firepower surplus against them.
That’s a pretty accurate assessment.
Icebox and Ascent became their primary maps in Split 2. Bind was heavily anti’d while Asuna’s Raze and Cryo’s Omen were poor on Lotus. Cryo also dropped stinkers on Astra for Split and Jett on Haven — to the point they switched to the FNC comp with him on Iso and Asuna in Yoru for their playoff match against Sen and looked decent.
Here’s how the map pool favors them:
Ascent | Pearl | Abyss
Bind | Split | Sunset
Haven?
Look at the TGRD Ascension run — He had the most FBs that tournament with a 65% ESR. I have no doubts that he can put up at least an Asuna level performance if not better on Raze/Jett.
Izzy | Duelist
Kamyk | Flex
Kr1stal | IGL Recon
Ruxic | Smokes
nAts | Sentinel
Optional import since every EMEA team is doing it: Sym
He needs to channel his short king aura by walking on stage with a crown and cloak printed with “Buy the Sen Bundle” every match. I think that’d do it.
He put up insane numbers on Astra and Brim.
He could do what Leo and Alfajer did by MVPing off duelist at an International. I’d consider that Aura.
I like this ranking. C9 might be a dark horse with the Rossy pick up and if Xeppaa maintains his off-season form. v1c is also a great fragger — like an offbrand Skuba or Zander, same quality but lesser known.
3rd-5th should be close hopefully but I don’t see G2 and SEN not making at least 2/3 Internationals. I do think you should include LEV in the list though since they’re going to be majority NA it seems.
Replied twice on accident cuz bad internet >:c
I’d rate Cryo as probably the best Jett in the region just for his Oping but he’s a step down on any other Agent — Just think cNed.
Asuna is a highly vocal Zyppan. He’s more consistent than Zellsis and Mazino on flashes but falls behind Ethan, JonahP, and Cauanzin. So top 5.
He plays Raze and Neon though which makes up for Cryo’s inflexibility. He’s probably 6th-8th in the region?
World Class
Jawgemo | Zekken | Oxy | Keznit | Aspas
Regional
Asuna | Mada | Tex | Mwzera | Silentzz | Dantedeus
T2 Bound
Icy | Victor | Palla
South NA would be Mexico through Panama and all of the countries in the Caribbean.
Dawgemo | G2’s Aura
N4rrate | The Prodigal Son
Saadhak | Redemption Arc
Demon1 | Best Smokes 2025
Lakia | Lakia of Valorant
Vitality as a team should be a treat to watch too.
NA has far fewer slots for all of our talent. 25 at the start of franchising and now 30 with G2’s Ascension — EMEA has double that at 60 slots. The competition is much tighter and players know there’s another 30+ pool of T2 talent that wants their spot.
NA also has a smaller T2 league relative to EMEA with teams that we often get to see play against T1 in offseason tournaments. The worst in the league are relegated out between splits and the best are considered prime scrim partners by the T1 teams. By contrast, EMEA T2 has a ton of T2 leagues that dilute talent and make it difficult to measure the level of play when every representative gets to farms their respective regions.
I think most would agree that three T2 teams from this year: M80, OXG, and MxS would fit just fine in T1 around 8-12th in the league if not higher. G2 has proven this by placing 5th at Kickoffs and then 2nd in Split 1 after roles swaps.
M80’s original 2023 core was more consistent than TGRD’s (now G2) and just missed out on ascending. They dominated Split 2 this year and were high priority scrim partners among T1 teams.
OXG proved themselves in the off-season, taking matches off 100T and G2 (pre-Icy), as well as having close games with SEN. They were also priority scrim partners and dominated Split 1.
MxS were created by taking the supportive core of Moist, who placed third behind TGRD and M80 last year and adding fragging players from SR: Mada and v1c. They’ve finished third in every Split but always by the thinnest margins — like again in this list.
There are no doubts that the better players on these teams are all T1 quality. They’re proven and consistent but don’t have the opportunity — that’s why other regions are picking them up. On the bright side, we should be recouping N4rrate, Rossy, and Yay.
Maybe against top tier teams but their firepower places them firmly in top 2/3 in APAC which will get them into internationals where they usually make playoffs. I hope they really put in effort to make David their IGL though and rein in the inting.
Every world class team has a strong sentinel to secure their defense sides — something that NRG lacks in every iteration without Yay and Chamber Meta. Sure they might secure themselves in the upper half of the region with great attack side calling but I don’t see them breaking top 3, much less contending in internationals against teams that don’t have any firepower deficits and just as complex strategy.
I hope that’s not the case. I want LEV to pick up a Flex IGL so that Demon1 can pair with KiNgg for Duelist/Smokes.
It’d be tough to find a match with Mitch going to C9 and Flyuh to KOI though.
Apparently Jingg has been learning sentinels so their roles are fixed for default heavy maps. Something has also been practicing Recon so that helps with their information deficit leading to more flexible playstyles instead of just W gaming. It should be a good year since 2024 served as a good wake up call.
I got my 4 around 200 posts. Pretty sure it’s just about the number and not whether you’re updooted or not.
I don’t think Sayf plays it anymore given he’s moving to flex with Derke picking up entry. Miniboo is decent but he doesn’t always convert his entries. I don’t think T3xture picks it up and Zekken has been vocal that he prefers Raze which is why I had him last on the list. Dambi is unlikely to make an international but he should do damage in his region the same way Spike should in Americas.
It doesn’t matter that they made top 4 in 2023 when the competition in 2025 will be much greater. Keep in mind they got eliminated by BLG as well that year. They’ve got two rookies to integrate and a massive firepower deficit — saying FNS will compensate with his igling ignores the fact that every other teams’ IGLs have been improving as well.
Let me list some contenders that could absolutely keep NRG out of the conversation this year. NRG might not even make top 10, even if they manage to qualify for an international.
Sen still look better than NRG tbh.
They don’t have a fragging weak link with minor firepower upgrades in each roles except for consistency issues in Flash/Flex and Smokes. I think Bang can match s0m in the right environment and Zellsis while less consistent than Ethan has some maps where he takes over.
Ran into him while playing comp. Seems alright but it was an Immortal 1 lobby so I don’t think he’d be good enough for G2.
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