| Flag: | Australia |
| Registered: | April 23, 2022 |
| Last post: | June 23, 2025 at 10:34 PM |
| Posts: | 209 |
more competitive, probably - considering teams have had longer to prepare for post-tejo meta and the quality of the teams
however ewc will never be bigger than masters, both in my eyes can be considered major tourneys but 6 day schedule with 28 matches is insane as well
considering there's gonna be 28 matches in 6 days (with presumably Bo5 for grands and 3rd place decider), are they gonna run multi-streams or have like 12 hour days?
now that the two masters events of the year are over, here's every region's average placement during those two events
Masters Bangkok
Pacific: 3.00 (1st + 5th)
Americas: 4.50 (2nd + 7th)
EMEA: 4.50 (4th + 5th)
China: 5.00 (3rd + 7th)
Masters Toronto
Pacific: 4.33 (1st + 5th + 7th)
China: 6.33 (3rd + 7th + 9th)
Americas: 7.00 (4th + 6th + 11th)
EMEA: 7.33 (2nd + 9th + 11th)
2025 Overall (so far obv)
Pacific: 3.80
China: 5.80
Americas: 6.00
EMEA: 6.20
We can compare this to their over 2024 rankings and average placements at champions
Champions 2024
Americas: 5.75
EMEA: 7.25
China: 8.50
Pacific: 9.00
2024 Overall (difference from 2025)
Americas: 4.88 (-1.12)
EMEA: 6.11 (-0.09)
Pacific: 6.44 (+2.64)
China: 8.11 (+2.31)
1st seeded rrq couldnt win a single map, geng got elimated by G2, the only reason "7 teams are capable of making internationals" is because every pacific team was painfully average during stage 1
talon, boom, and nongshim wouldnt have done anything at masters either, the only team which could have competed is probably DRX
what were they thinking scheduling China's regular season to finish like 2-3 weeks before everyone else, having a 2 week break - China and Americas ending together (makes sense) and then Pacific is a week later (sure) but then EMEA scheduled to finish 2 weeks later (tech problems would have caused this anyway but the fact the schedule was planned like this is crazy).
Masters Toronto is up to a month after Americas + China, 2 weeks after EMEA when it's traditionally been 2 weeks after all the regions finished (Masters Shanghai started 23/05 when all regions finished on the 12th) EWC qualifiers start in half a week, China qualifying has already concluded (with a Single-Elim bracket nonetheless).
Masters ends 22/06 and EWC starts 08/07 ending 13/07. China starts 5 days before EWC starts ??? Americas starts just 5 days after EWC ends ???
Teams not qualifying for Masters or EWC have over a month of nothing, while teams attending both events (e.g. G2 / SEN) could play 3 events in 1 month.
Riot could have easily had Pacific and EMEA end on the same week, Masters starts 2 weeks after as normal. EWC is pushed forward, so that we have 2-3 weeks on either side.
EWC qualifier format is actually pretty good imo, and the actual event is like Champions 2021 (though in 5/6 days could be insane)
tl;dr: what is riot doing for a multi-billion company to be scheduling events like this
the g2 core is NOT tier 2 level, beat prime optic in a Bo5
the hell does this even mean, they already are redoing the veto at 1-0
IF they were to replay split, it would also go against the "competitive integrity" all these KC fans are yapping about where KC gets to look at everything they did wrong and completely anti liquid. It's not the same at other Splits that TL have played or when you've faced in scrims, you essentially get free knowledge on how they are willing to play against you.
Secondly, if you were to remove split from the map pool to combat this
As much as KC will think it's unfair, it is also completely unfair to reset the game for TL
do you think you would have the same opinion if KC won split
both faced yay's redemption arc, he's going +30 against G2 to send EG back to an international
at the same time you want the best teams at the internationals, so there's pros and cons to the scheduling. however EG are always a wildcard and if there was ever a team to beat G2, it'll be now.
Yeah but if you count pre-franchising as well I'm sure lots of players also count, I can instantly think of Sacy with vikings, loud and sen.
how would they even change the events, they have a consistent event schedule which imo is good for the ecosystem - and we have showmatches and activities to do with esports every masters / champions.
Surely autumn could receive offers from mid-tier or T2 teams in Americas / EMEA, or even pacific. He's a good player who would be an improvement in many teams, FPX could look at getting S1mon, with Shrimp / S1mon on the initiator roles and yosemite picking up the perma sentinel / viper. After all this controversy, S1mon is unlikely to stay on EDG and if he pledges to work hard I'm sure a team like FPX could take the gamble.
obviously idk anything about these players / teams situations but it seems weird for autumn to keep committing to the CN league when I'm sure a team like Apeks, KOI would improve with him.
You literally have forsaken on the team, and now you have prx david on astra while you benched mindfreak
forsaken - yoru
patmen - fade
mindfreak - astra
david - vyse
jinggg - pheonix??
also WHY pheonix. its not working anymore and that should have been obvious after the DFM 13-1 (who are tied bottom with you rn) play kayo, tejo, viper like any sensible team
i think one thing that we can all agree on is that maps like fracture are mostly very entertaining in pro play, but can be VERY annoying to play in comp / casually. it simply comes down to how much teamwork you need to succeed, which on a map like fracture (and typically larger maps) is a lot.
similar can be said to a map like breeze, where I never hated it in pro play, but it just feels untraversable in comp. and it's prob gonna be a problem with similarly designed maps for a long time.
He's stuck on initiator now, perma breach with 1 sova game to show.
Tbf it makes sense, but he is not a natural initiator player. you see it in some rounds, same with jinggg on his new controller role. It'll take time, but imo they lean into double duelist, like T1 showed at masters, or sign an actual initiator player (cough cough patmen).
13-4 all time, 12-2 vct era, 6-1 partnership era 😭😭stick to rivals
at least they have the results to back it up
what happened to edward. did he retire or something. what happened to his team edward gaming. he needs to come back and play 5 edward meta. edward on duelist. edward on initiator. edward on sentinel. edward on controller. a 5th edward just for the insurance.
I think the solution is try looking at T1's playstyle on maps like haven, they've tried the Yoru - Iso comp and had an alright game against G2. If they really put some time into it, it might look better than anything they can put out right now. I do think their current gameplans are not terrible, really it's the midrounding. Idk if it's the switch from sentinel to initiator by John or the loss of tenz and sacy.
However you gotta be confident in them with their long break and we all know how good the team is
2023 loud lost 3-2 to EG
just imagine if sacy and pancada were there 😭would not have been close
top 4 teams who didn't qualify to bangkok get a bye. it seems single elim, with a 3rd place match.
there are points listed on VLR, but seems redundant considering all 12 teams are in VCT CN and TE + EDG send academy teams (obv)
Oh man thats on me. I forgot about the verticality.
On pgs 108 and 109 M4 describes to us an A take and B fake.
His “a take” is literally sova droning past a viper wall (which may not even be there) and the other players taking aggressive angles. Here are how this could and would fail:
SEN played Yoru on Split. So did BOTH FNC and BBL on their split match. In fact, out of 6 comps over 3 maps, Yoru was only missing once on FNC's fracture.
SEN ran Yoru on Pearl, so did FUT and BBL.
Karmine Corp have ran Yoru on ALL six maps they have played.
2Game ran Yoru on Haven. G2 ran Yoru on both their maps.
T1 was ALSO running Yoru on Pearl. DFM also chose Yoru on Pearl.
TYLOO over in China ran Yoru on Abyss and so did JDG. All Gamers also trusted in Yoru on Abyss. BiliBili also ran Yoru on Abyss, and so did FPX. Trace Esports ran Yoru on Abyss as well.
In fact FPX also ran the Lotus Yoru.
and likely more to come
Now Yoru was ran on Abyss, Haven and Bind a fair bit at Champs 2024. But it seems teams are really leaning into the Yoru. KC, BBL, SEN, FNC, FPX have all chosen Yoru significantly.
Anybody have a reason why?
I feel like this is better then his sentinel role last year since he now has the freedom to be much more proactive as an IGL and can call from the moment as opposed to being the lurker or last man in as the sentinel. Imo this is also Zellsis' best role on sentinel. His aim def is not the best on the team but his game sense is up there so the sentinel role suits him best, like we saw with his KJ play last year
Double sentinel has never worked realistically, we saw challengers teams picking up deadlock - cypher with relative success then Sentinels ofc picked it up on lotus and ascent. It kinda worked on lotus but never picked up on Ascent for them. LEV did see some success with it but they seemed to abandon Ascent in general after their loss to trace
BUT, I am confident that teams will pull out the double sentinel combo with vyse and a traditional flank watcher (cypher / kj). Teams will likely like to use it against retake heavy teams, for example Sentinels. Vyse also takes the role of a secondary initiator, with her flash and vines (molly thing). Using her alongside a kayo, sova or gekko seems pretty viable.
For example, an ascent comp of Jett, Omen, Sova, Vyse, Cypher / Kj
Thoughts? or will Vyse flop competitively like the past 3 agents before her or something
An extension of my 2024 regional placements list
Note 1: Rankings taken from each team's placements throughout each international event. If a team finishes tied (e.g. 9th-12th), the lowest placing is taken (e.g. 9th). The average is then taken.
Note 2: Pre-franchising regions have been assigned to their respective franchised regions (e.g. LATAM -> Americas, Japan -> Pacific) China has been incorporated into Pacific as only EDG qualifies for Champions and China do not have slots at any other events.
Note 3: All decimals rounded to 2dp
Overall 2021-2024 Ranking
1st: EMEA (5.47)
2nd: Americas (6.25)
3rd: Pacific (7.83)
4th: China (8.14)
Overall 2024 Year Ranking
All regions sent 9 total teams
1st: Americas (4.88)
2nd: EMEA (6.11)
3rd: Pacific (6.44)
4th: China (8.11)
Overall 2023 Year Ranking
Americas sent 7 total teams, EMEA sent 9 total teams, Pacific sent 7 total teams, China sent 5 total teams
1st: Americas (5.57)
2nd: Pacific (6.86)
3rd: EMEA (7.66) (6.43; removing worst placing teams at Masters and Champions - Team Liquid and Navi)
4th: China (8.20)
Overall 2022 Year Ranking
Americas sent 17 total teams, EMEA sent 10 total teams, Pacific sent 13 total teams,
1st: EMEA (4.92)
2nd: Americas (6.53)
3rd: Pacific (8.46)
Overall 2021 Year Ranking
Americas sent 18 total teams, EMEA sent 10 total teams, Pacific sent 13 total teams (should have been 14, but Bren Esports did not participate)
1st: EMEA (3.5)
2nd: Americas (6.94)
3rd: Pacific (8.69)
Nobody remembers who came second in anything, TH's year will be remembered but when people look back it was the year of SEN, Gen.G and EDG
what is this HOLY cope. heretics remain winless 0% winrate in 2 attempts LMAO
who said this???
"ur team" - Sentinels who won Masters Madrid
Senshitels won two trophies before heretics even made a grand final
sure thing, i will prob make one comparing all the regions once champions ends to see the evolution of each region throughout the years
Rankings taken from each team's placements throughout each international event. If a team finishes tied (e.g. 9th-12th), the lowest placing is taken (e.g. 9th). The average is then taken.
In case of champions, 1st bracket indicates lowest guaranteed placing, 2nd bracket indicates second lowest, etc. For the overall year rankings, the lowest guaranteed placing has been taken although taking the highest wouldn't change anything.
Overall Year Rankings (rounded to 2dp.)
1st: Americas (4.88)
2nd: EMEA (6.22)
3rd: Pacific (6.44
4th: China (8.22)
Masters Madrid Ranking
1st: Americas (2.5)
1st: Pacific (2.5)
3rd: EMEA (6)
3rd: China (6)
Masters Shanghai Ranking
1st: EMEA (4.66)
2nd: Americas (5.33)
3rd: Pacific (5.66)
4th: China (9)
Champions Ranking
1st: Americas (5.75 (5.5) (5.25))
2nd: EMEA (7.5 (7.25) (7))
3rd: China (8.75 (8.5))
4th: Pacific (9)
Was it a honeymoon period at kickoff and madrid, or is it because of something else.
They played really well in their first 3 stage 2 matches. Until, they started relying on the "Deadlock - Cypher" comps. They clearly aren't getting the value SEN thought it would. But with that out the way, do you think they have what it takes to innovate and make playoffs, top 3? Or even win champs.
Looking at the representatives from every region, you really don't want anyone in your group.
Heretics are EMEA #3
SEN are AME #4
DRX / PRX for PAC #3
BLG CN #4 and we know what they did to the favourites last year.
You just gotta pray for the CN teams as the higher seeds (and still you could go in as the underdog as the 1 or 2 seed)
No matter what this team will qualify, went 0-9 last year and went through LCQ. And now clutching up when it looked like it was over.
Shoulda won against FURIA 💀 woulda been booking their tickets to Seoul rn
Pretty sure they played as 'DRX VS' for another year after, so they should def be up there as one of (if not) the most consistent team OAT. Hope to see them succeed for once
am I wrong in saying the only way SEN don't make champs is they lose to G2 and lose their first playoff match. While 100T win all 3 of their remaining regular season matches, win one playoff game (not getting the bye) and losing 2 in a row to not make top 3. Since then SEN sit on 12 points while 100T sit on 13, with neither of them making top 3?
Bro took too much of the crack
Looking at the top 6 of, PRX, DRX, Talon, TS, RRQ and Gen.G, they basicially have an incredibly easy path to playoffs. BLEED are out of contention, while GE sit at 3-5. None of DFM, T1 or ZETA look stunning. Really no competition here no?
tl;dr: having a team with Zest and Yay who both made mutliple top 4 VCT finishes. scary who basically went to every event in 2021 and 2022 and accomplished regional players in Deryeon and Retla and STILL placing last is honestly something only this team team can accomplish.
This team and org is just dysfunctional, instead of picking up players who could actually play well and creating a sensible strategic approach - they went up and picked up yay as an import and used him on skye and viper at kickoff? and then proceeded to have him play raze. You literally have Deryeon who can comfortably play Raze which enables you to run yay on chamber or jett. You have Zest who has made it to multiple playoff and subsequent top 4 finishes with DRX. sScary is the only person playing with any motivation to win, he's made it to multiple masters and champions with X10 and Xerxia. Then retla has lots of experience spanning back to 2021 with PRX and 2022 with BLEED themselves. And yet the best you can accomplish is tied last and tied second last.
Ultimately, this may boil down to the coaching staff or overall team dynamic. But this team has no future unless they just disband, let the talented players join talented teams and build fromthe top down in an attempt to at least make top 8 and fight for your spot in 2025.
who do yall think can make it to VCT next year, at least in Americas I'm confident it'll be one of the current top 3 NA teams being oxygen, darkzero (previously TTR) and one other team maybe m80 if they return to form. Also any news on china ascension? Will it be a similar format to last years.
i swear to the lords above every time this team plays it's a fever dream. f0rsaken and jinggg just run onto site not even letting go of WASD, then the rest of the team somehow gets 3 kills - all within 1 second of each other and suddenly it's the next round? What even is this
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