Heretics and EDG are not cooking

#1

elysxxm

teams that keep their old lineup do NOT cook, just switch atleast 1 player, even if all 5 of those players were amazing on their role you cant guarantee that same success, new map pools, new teams/players, new agents, new meta. too many variables, hot take idk why people have either winning regional or winning a event (besides EDG for regionals) I don't think we will ever see the same 5 win a title in 2 different years.
sen after 2021 didnt work
fnatic after 2023 didnt work
prx after 2023 didnt work
fpx/navi after 2022 didnt work
edg after 2023 didnt work until they added a new player
acend after 2021 didnt work
gambit after 2021 didnt work

the only team that kept exact rosters and still found success was optic/envy and they didnt do THAT much the year before they won.

#2

AZDZ

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ah. so thats why meteor leaving GenG was good.

I'm not saying EDG/ TH will win trophies, but I don't think changing rosters will too.
game is volatile, ppl have highs and lows, heavy antistrats can all mess you up

#3

catNmouse

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edg switched their player (and coach) after their underwhelming performance in shanghai, why would they change out 1 player when it’s clearly worked for them? i mean regardless of what you think about EDG and TH, they’ve found more success than anyone else and from their perspective it obviously makes sense to run it back, especially TH who seems to be trying out role changes

#4

elysxxm

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you can say that about every single team i mentioned look at everyones past results, things get stale, chem changes, people change, meta changes, map pool changes. just because it worked once doesn't mean its gonna work the next year. plus if u have 4 pieces to the championship core surely you can still make internationals right? doesnt hurt to change something.

#5

catNmouse

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yeah i’m talking about EDG and TH specifically tho, not the other teams, they don’t need to change anything if they’ve seen success this year, and who knows maybe they can break the curse?

Other than that, fnatic saw tremendous success in 2023 winning back to back titles and a 4th place finish at champs, makes sense for them to keep the same roster heading into 2024 (they did change coaches but that’s because mini didn’t wanna be HC), prx was 3rd at tokyo and 2nd at champs, jinggg was leaving anyways so they had to make a change

also FPX/NAVI switched one player and didn’t do very well so that’s not always the case, you don’t have to switch a player after making deep runs or winning trophies

#8

elysxxm

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how is edg and heretics situation different than every other team i mentioned, those two do not have the most success out of every team there. but to anwser your question it does and doesnt make sense to run it back, sure each team was insane this year and had good showing but looks at the facts, there has never been a team that did good back to back years and still did great by keeping the same 5 players and coach. (besides maybe prx and fnatic if you count getting grouped and 0-2 at playoffs a good year) it cannot hurt to change.

loud 2022 win champs -pancada,sacy
get 2nd lock in, win regional, 3rd at champ

fpx 2022 win reyk - ardiis
4th at lock in, make both internationals but get shit groups

optic/nrg - yay, marved
5th lock in, 4th tokyo

you can say that it make sense to run it back but historically it really doesnt.

#14

catNmouse

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in THs and EDGs eyes it makes no sense to run it back especially with the insane showings they’ve had. EDG found success for the first time in a long time by literally doing what you mentioned but before champs started, and TH’s coach stated that this is a long term project (this was when everyone saw them as a F tier team)

#27

catNmouse

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i completely see where you’re going though based off this pattern, teams who stick together don’t always guarantee success but can you really say the same for teams who make 1 or 2 changes?

#6

Didi4646

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you must be trying to bait.
FPX/ NAVI literaly had cned over ardiis
EDG didn't do shit in 2023
gambit was fucked by the russia-ukrain war
and fnatic made top 5/6 in champs, won the EMEA region two times, how's that a failure?

#9

elysxxm

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gambit roster played with the same team for all of 2022, didnt make a single event
edg got 6th both masters and champs as a breakout for china
navi ran back the fpx roster in 2024 and did nothing
fanatic won 2 events went undefeated in split and got 4th at champs the previous year. surely a 6th place champs and 8th place masters was way worse than they were expecting no?

#13

cameran

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cuz fnatic went from #1 emea to like top 3 and couldnt prove themselves in internationals
dominated regionals like always cuz theres no competition there unfortunately

#7

DBStudios

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OPTIC to NRG
22 LOUD to 23 LOUD

New SEN roster in 22 didn't work
NAVI with cNed didn't work

Must be the greatest bait of all time

#10

elysxxm

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navi with cned did work, they just got shit groups, sen kept the roster and failed, and nrg literally was the new optic, dont act like everyone wasnt saying nrg was optic back then, they even said nrg v loud was el classico

#11

DBStudios

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I read through the entire thing and I came to the conclusion that it's bait. If you don't have anything to respond to defend your claim then just "average vlr user lmao" who's really is in the wrong?

#12

elysxxm

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you said one thing then edited it lmao dont look smart
i replied for u bro

#15

DBStudios

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I edited it like less than a minute after sending it? That's not my fault lmao that you didn't reload it

#16

x_knowitall39_x

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https://imgur.com/gallery/patrick-star-water-jug-B7QouQQ

#18

elysxxm

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brother it kinda is your fault why would i reload while im replying lmao i saw the original message my first thought isnt "lemme reload just incase he changes this dogshit attrocious take"

#22

DBStudios

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My original claim still makes sense? I know you can be a bit slow but come on man you got that.

#32

elysxxm

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it doesnt work tho
navi with cned got 4th lock in, and mad every event just got shit groups at both
sen originally kept the same 2021 roster
everyone was saying nrg was a reborn optic roster it had 3/5th of players and people even said nrg v loud was still el classico

#20

AZDZ

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you main point is dumb tho. you are saying teams that looked good should change, but a change doesn't guarantee they will win.

#28

elysxxm

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my fault i didnt give examples of teams who changed and cooked in the original post i thought it was too long but i did in other replies
2023 navi changed and got 4th lock in , made all events but got shit groups
2023 changed, got 2nd lock in won regional, 3rd champ
neg picked up 3/5 of the optic roster, 5th lock in, 4th tokyo, shit show at champs but solid year
teams who change majority of the time still compete the next year, majority of teams who run it back play like shit the next year

#21

DBStudios

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"shit groups???" bro must be on smth, the only reason NAVI even made it to the top 4 was because they played against, KRU (10th place in 2023), TS (known shitters and chokers), and LEV (only decent team they played but then again they lost to clown9 in playoffs and 0-2). Tokyo they played against NRG (understandable they were a good team) and EDG (horrible team at the time after they lost to a shit t1). At champs they choked both games to qualify that's not an unlucky group that's just them being shit.

I don't understand what you're saying for NRG, they literally didn't have Marved or yay who were their two best players in 22.

#23

catNmouse

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off topic but i don’t think edg was that dogshit in 2023 at tokyo 🗿 they stomped t1 and loud and got a solid placement even if they choked vs prx

#24

elysxxm

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edg were not horrible, they almost beat the world champ eg team, almost beat runner up of champ prx, beat loud, beat navi, and they beat t1 in the rematch.

and bro literally everyone said nrg was the new optic, not just me

#25

DBStudios

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That was after they got the confidence boost from beating NAVI lmao if you even watched the first EDG vs T1 game you would know how bad they were.

#30

elysxxm

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confidence boost?????? bro your trying so hard to cope by saying edg was shit, they were a breakout chinese team, got grouped 2022, came back and shit on multiple playoff contenders, they were genuinely a good team, where did the "confidence" to beat navi come from if they were so shit they lost to t1

#31

DBStudios

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If I beat one of the favorites of the event I'm definitely gonna have a confidence boost and take the opportunity to make it further than ever before for my country. Explain to me how after they beat Navi, EDG basically smoked T1.

#33

elysxxm

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upsets happen bro, how did optic lose to to xerxia then win groups, if xerxia beat the favorites why didnt they win the event, explain to me where the confidence to beat navi came from if they lost to a 4th seed pacific team who were kinda ass.

#34

DBStudios

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People already weren't expecting OPTIC to do that well after they lost to xerxia and the guard. Also Xerxia did get a confidence boost after beating optic??? they would've made playoffs + probably more if they didn't sell against TL twice.

Also I'm not talking about a confidence boost to beat Navi that was an upset and even then it was extremely close, I'm talking about the confidence boost to beat T1 badly so please learn how to read.

#37

elysxxm

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bro this makes no sense why couldnt the lost against t1 have been an upset also????
you actually have zero iq, edg was a good team during tokyo kangkang was playing insane they beat loud, navi, almost won against prx and got 6th at 2 events, they were the 6th best team that year out of 34 teams keep coping bro im done

continue thread →

#26

catNmouse

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off topic yet again i think loud is a better example than eg, edg got stomped by eg next two maps only scoring 10 rounds in total and they actually made the game close vs loud on haven which was the decider map

#17

kanyefan4238173

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Horrific post

Fnatic after 23 were fine, Leo just has some freak shit going on

Fpx DID make changes, and then they made top 4 at the next lan, so they might support your point but in the opposite way

Gambit didn’t work because their org was kicked out of valorant

Prx did make changes because they were forced to and still got top 3 even if it was a mickey event

U got one thing rlly correct tho, hereshits are dogshit and should drop the boo brothers who hold their other 3 players back

#19

elysxxm

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i meant the 2024 navi they had the exact same fpx roster and missed every event then fell apart
gambit played with the exact same players 2022 and missed every event
fnatic won 2 events, went 9-0 at regional, 4th at champs, i think calling their 6th place, 8th place and not making madrid a failure for that good of a team, remember they played WITH leo for kickoff
prx got jingg back and went 0-2 playoffs then got grouped

#29

elysxxm

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every team ever that kept rosters still shit the bed the next year, my point stands no matter the reasoning you give

#35

kanyefan4238173

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Yeah u have a point, but your reasoning is out of line

Fpx did work after 2022, but they also made a roster change. They support your point but in opposite way to what u said

#36

TM06Nick

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get 2nd twice in a row
change roster
lose more?

#38

elysxxm

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dont make roster change
lose kick off lower final
do good regular season
choke playoffs
make champs
get grouped or 6th place
heretics are gonna have a great year lmao

#42

elysxxm

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beating a team like navi regardless of how you did it is an upset edg were a good team log off