VCT EMEA Week 4 returns with three games

#1

dreamyy

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:(

#19

no1haterbutloveyou2

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:(

#2

Arisqq

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=(

#3

Satchel_Out

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common going to war L
common Eutalyx W

#4

bandwagondestroyer

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didnt read

#21

arrivederci

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.

#5

Sugma

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Sad but needed, hope everything can work out

#6

frake_monster

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Riot is sleeping? Just make some decisions please

#7

justadude

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It's only fair if Russians can't play, government represents people and their government put Ukrainians in to position where they can't play.
Ukraine did what they had to in 2013, it's Russia's turn.

#8

zz

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I really don't understand this POV to be honest. What exactly will banning Russian players do other than incite more hate in the community? What exactly have players of Gambit and Na'Vi and whoever plays from Russia have done other than being born and raised there? Many of them have outwardly spoken against the action of their government and the fact that other industries are banning them to play is nothing more than boycott and censorship of players who barely have any thoughts regarding the war.

#9

eutalyx

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That's why the most well-received reaction has been ESL's: exclude the organizations for their ties to relevant people and lack of action; let the players play under a neutral flag.

#10

zz

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This should be commonsensical response, but ig common sense isnt as common as one would think.

#11

justadude

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I agreed with your take few days ago, until I realized, A LOT OF RUSSIANS DONT CARE, only talk no action, same happened in nazi Germany, most people knew there are horrible shit done with jews, but they didn't care, if you asked they would say its horrible, but in fact they didn't care.
The only uprising in Russia would be because of economics, not because Russia invading other countries, Putin's popularity raised after Russia invaded Crimea, not being able to buy Iphone is not as bad as having your family members blown up in pieces.
Russians that are living in Russia shouldn't be able to play, especially as they will most likely will not be able to go to LAN because of visa issues. Same with Russian orgs.

https://twitter.com/CurrentTimeTv/status/1499475364078366729

https://www.reddit.com/r/UkraineWarVideoReport/comments/t64a43/russian_state_controlled_media_has_the_average/

#12

zz

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I understand that discussions about the ukraine-russia conflict aren't allowed, as no other political discussion is. discussions about how that might impact valorant esports will be tolerated but this seems to be a question that I believe I should answer. @mods.

Like I said above, common sense is not as common as one would think. A lot of Russians don't care? This war actively affects (sanctions, censorship) them obviously not in the horrendous way that it is affecting the Ukrainians but it does. What does caring entail in your dictionary? Rioting against the government? Protesting? Sure, it may but considering that they have their own families to feed, asking them to go get jailed is a stupid suggestion.

Are there people in other parts of the world where people are living their live to their best ability while this is going on in Ukraine? Yes. Do they care about the war going on Ukraine, likely yes but most they can do is donate, be aware and some volunteer. Does this mean that these people should be banned from playing a video game because they are not defending Ukraine actively? Absolutely not.

Russians living in Russia should be allowed to play, Russians actively supporting killing of others should most definitely not be. There is a difference regardless of your understanding of the concepts.

Here are other countries with players who should not be allowed to play if I were to apply your understanding:
USA (wars vs. Vietnam, Cambodia, Grenada, Libya, El Salvador, Nicaragua, Iran, Iraq, ++++)
China (Do I need to really state why?)
Canada (International law violation by selling arms to countries it shouldn't)
Russia
Ukraine (https://www.hrw.org/news/2014/07/24/ukraine-unguided-rockets-killing-civilians)
Germany (Like you said, history can't be changed now can it be?)
Israel (Need I say much)
Saudi Arabia (Yemen)
Afghanistan
List is quite intensive.

Now, I posed many of these as things that should be looked up by you so as to educate you that your concept of understanding this is flawed.

#14

justadude

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I respect your point, my point is Russian people are as much responsible as their government and I don't see any change while they will not be sanctioned and I truly believe that.
Countries actively invading other countries should be sanctioned, I don't apply Socialist Germany war crimes to current Germany nor do I apply USSR war crimes to Russia.
The fact you put Ukraine, shows your stance, it would not have happened if Russian funded separatists wouldn't have invaded Ukraine, no need to victim blame.

#15

zz

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The fact you put Ukraine, shows your stance, it would not have happened if Russian funded separatists wouldn't have invaded Ukraine, no need to victim blame. Point to be made: I don't stand for the blood shed of humans.
The whole point being your being that Russian people are as much responsible as their government, why should this not apply to players belonging to other territories?

Your thoughts are wilder than I expected. Have a good one mate.

#16

justadude

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When did I say it shouldn't apply to others?
Also most points you mentioned are historical and with changed governments.
Vote against/overthrow government that is invading other countries and there will be no problem.

#18

zz

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Also most points you mentioned are historical and with changed governments.
Please just do a little bit more research.

Current Affairs
Current Affairs
Current Affairs
Current Affairs
Post listed from 2014.
History
Current Affairs
Current Affairs
Current Affairs

Refer to the countries as you go through this list. If you do not want to accept the fact that your point is absolutely unfounded, that is your choice. I am going to exit out of this conversation. Hope you are able to do some research before you spout nonsense on non-political forums.

#22

justadude

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What country is getting invaded by USA?
China ban them.
Canada as long as it was no nukes or chem warfare I don't care.
Russia BAN.
Ukraine????? rly?????
What country is getting invaded by Germany?
Israel ban them.
Saudi Arabia not to familiar with current status, but if it's still going on = ban.
Afghanistan internal conflict.

#41

sueYA

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bro what tf are you saying?
lets say a man murdered someone, should his son go to jail as well for him? and do you think putting the son in jail along with his dad will make him protest and correct his rotten father? no he will just become hateful to the society that is punishing him for no reason, its the same case here, as far as I know idt a few protests from people is gonna sway putin's mind, but I'm sure punishing the innocent people for their leader's ego will definitely not make them happy

#42

justadude

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Your comparison doesn't make any sense, we are talking about elected government of Russia, not father and son.

But if we would use father and son comparison it would be that Father is going out everyday killing people and when he comes back son doesn't care and says nothing.
As long as son is not getting conscripted to fight and as long he can live comfortably he wont care.

More sanctions sooner this will end, less people will die. I'm sure Russians will survive not having luxury commodities and that can save people in Ukraine. If that will lead to Russia closing down from the rest of the world how they are planning to hide their humiliation in Ukraine from their own population so be it. At least less people would die.

#25

Dokka

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Have you been paying any attention to what’s happening in Russia? The people don’t support the war, over 6000 Russian civilians have already been arrested for protests in Saint Petersburg and Moscow. Lumping all Russian civilians into one group saying they are behind the war because of a basically completely different situation of what happened in Crimea makes no sense and frankly just makes the situation worse

#26

justadude

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Yes I have seen protests in Russia, while they are running from single police officer, people in Ukraine are standing in front of tanks, as long as they don't have their own Euromaidan or at least what happened after 2020 fake presidential election in Belarus, there is nothing to talk about, sending prayers wont help.

And the only way to have them rise up is with sanctions.

#27

Dokka

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So you’re saying we should punish the innocent civilians of Russia so their life becomes so bad that they decide to rise up and then all get killed in a bloody revolution.

If you want less bloodshed, I can tell you that banning Russian players and overall punishing the Russian people for the actions of an unstable dictator is not going to help and is simply not morally right.

What Putin is doing in Ukraine is horrible, fucking hell half my family lives in Ukraine, but I can tell you that what you’re suggesting is not the way to go about this.

#28

justadude

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All I'm saying we should save Russian citizens with sanctions, same way they are saving Ukrainians from "nazis".

And no, I want there to be less bloodshed, that's why it needs to stop as soon as possible, most likely there would be less people dead during protest than in a single day civilian casualties in Ukraine.

I'm ok with them playing if they are not in Russia.

#35

Royz

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Uhhhhh shall I give u a suggestion...
Well Just let it be and get urself a brain as thats the best thing u are good for rather than arguing over the same point a million times. I m not taking any sides for the conflict but keep in mind Ukraine players are not able to join because of the laws of the Ukraine government not letting anyone out of their country above the age of 18 and Russia has nothing to do with that.
Also the Nazi reference doesnt relate with the current situation and if you go as far as ur understanding then US should be banned a long time ago bc of the wars in Vietnam, Afghanistan. Iraq and so on. This is no place for political discussions and made solely for the purpose of Valorant tournaments and just keep it at that. Complicating things will just make it worse. A question , Are you living in Russia or Okraine currently, or just living under a rock and no nothing abt whats going on. Sorry for being this harsh mate but maybe try to understand what zz and Dokka are trying to explain. Also U might have a good chance in being a politician if you learn to understand shit ur way...
No need to reply to this bc I am not gonna waste my time checking this again and hopefully you too stop wasting your time living under a rock.

#36

justadude

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There is no point in talking anyways as Russians will have visa issues and wont be able to play.

#37

Royz

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"There is no point in talking" I rlly dont think u understand what the line means...
People in Russia, have internet and have pcs as long as these two things are available they can continue playing... Also the visa issues depends on the country, just chill bro and dont get too hyped up abt some political things which doesnt fit ur brain.
Once Bren Esports couldnt join Masters Berlin even after qualifying in APAC bc of the Phillipines government. Doesnt change a lot though. Things will cool down in a few years from now and everything will be normal.

#39

justadude

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Well things are not cool now and that's the problem.
visa issue should definitely be taken in to account, There also needs to be decision made about Gambit as they are Russian org.
For NAVI and other teams I would recommend getting payers out of Russia asap. having in mind they will not go back until war is over.
And they should not play under Russian flag.

tbh its also for their own safety as they can get drafted if they stay in Russia.

#40

Royz

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we fine keep talking abt nonsense but ur way of thinking is very wrong and Russians should not be punished for their government at whatever costs. Make that clear bruh

#32

inSEBtion

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I do not agree with the way you said it, but I agree with the fact that Russian players that also live in Russia, need to be (temporarily) suspended.
I do not want to get too political here, but in short: sanctions are there to pressure the people to stand up against their government. Being silent means approving. A lot of people (RU) (you meet tons of them in CS) like Putin. But they also like CS/Valorant, etc. The way to sanction them, is to remove them from playing, or at least their (russian) idols in the pro-League. They need to get an awareness of the sick situation going on in Ukraine.
There is way more, but I actually do not care to explain it to everyone else who is gonna down vote this comment anyways, just because they do not get that (e-)sports is in fact political. Or why do you think Russian teams get suspended in Football World championship, europe championship, europe cup, paralympics, icehockey, handball, basketball europe cup, and so on...
But sure, you Valorant heroes know it all better.

#33

Eroshka

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I would not say that they like their government, etc., as well as not like it. They just don't care, like an empty sound. However, the situation has changed and now they are more against than for. To be honest, I'm rooting for.... well, you understand.

#34

zz

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#8, #12, #15, #18.

#13

asdfghjkl

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player's safety >

#17

DELUSIONAL_FANS_DESTROYER

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Let's be honest, no one watch vct emea anymore. They're busy demonstrate and prepare to war.
Let's just move on, all iz well.

#23

xaboff

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DPRK VCT best

#20

Astorias399

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F

#24

trola

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still no info about CIS Sadge

#29

ValdemieGC

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Glad competition is being resumed

I understand postponing matches relative to Russian/Ukrainian players and orgs. But I honestly wished we would see more matches this weekends from those teams and players whose nationality is not directly involved in war. Still, it's something.

My only concern with this weekend's matches is Kiles. I think his family is in Ukraine? Might be wrong. But I hope he agreed to play.

#30

LimitLessLife

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I mean... It's a hard situation for EMEA VCT... You have about 20% of player origniating from Russia... And 2 organisation. It's hard to decide what to do.
Also, you have to keep in mind that the tournament already started. Can you drop everything that was play and be like : we are starting over... they handed defeat to none-russian player team... so what do you do?

#31

eutalyx

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What org is Russian besides Gambit? NAVI are Ukrainian, FPX are Chinese. Not trying to detract from your point, you're right.

#38

LimitLessLife

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Honnestly, my mistake. I mistakely look at what tourny they qualify from.
anyhow..

NAVI Actully field a team of 4 russian and 1 Belarus... Must feel weird right now for them!