if anything, Zellsis is actually underrated
Champs 2024
Zellsis - 5 Agents, 3 Roles, 0.98 Rating
Player X - 6 Agents, 2 roles, 0.99 Rating
0
Actual Unpopular Opinion
posted in
General Discussion
Comments:
Threaded
Linear
Yuh_aye [#5]Once yall solve the incredible mystery of Player X you'll notice that he never gets clowned (not that I think he should) the way Zellsis does.
mr X isn’t a clown tho
kanyefan4238173 [#3]Wo0t is way better this is why stats aren’t everything
Yeah stats aren't everything but you calling him 'way better' is a prime example of zellsis being underrated. The zellsis isn't no slouch and the gap isn't that big. Put the stats aside for a second and what do they both have going for them as a flex?
X
- Better Aim
- Better overall initiator
Y
- Better Breach
- More Flexible
Once you account for the stats being essentially equal, is choosing between X and Y some no-brainer?
Dare I even bring up Zellsis's finals stats against Gen.G compared to Woot (in his prime) (on duelist) against GenG?
zellsis lows are astonishingly low, like 0 impact kind of low, zellsis is prob the 2nd worst on that team in terms of gameplay, he was mid/subpar throughout the tourney and completely threw against TH. how do you have a 22/16 map and 4/18 map back to back? atleast be consistent geez, was the reason they didnt get 2-0d and also the reason they got 2-1d
Also woot only had 1 bad game that tournament that carnaged his rating (against lev he had a 0.56) So I would say he definitely played better throughout the tournament, and MOST definitely played better throughout the entire year.
PS all of this is judged on rating
nobody___100 [#8]scroll up a bit and you'll find a certain Player Y
4 Agents, 1 Role, 0.99 Rating...edit: i just realized
scroll down a bit
3 Agents, 2 (really 1 though) Role, 0.96 Rating, insanely glazed
damn i thought benjyfishy was good..
Just rating is 0.1 diff. ACS, ADR wise woot is noticeably better. If you watched the SEN vs TH game, woot was considerably better than zellsis. There's a reason why people didn't call woot out, because those who had watched the matches saw how well he performed, which vlr rating doesn't fully justify.
x_knowitall39_x [#10]zellsis lows are astonishingly low, like 0 impact kind of low, zellsis is prob the 2nd worst on that team in terms of gameplay, he was mid/subpar throughout the tourney and completely threw against TH. how do you have a 22/16 map and 4/18 map back to back? atleast be consistent geez, was the reason they didnt get 2-0d and also the reason they got 2-1d
Also woot only had 1 bad game that tournament that carnaged his rating (against lev he had a 0.56) So I would say he definitely played better throughout the tournament, and MOST definitely played better throughout the entire year.
PS all of this is judged on rating
Go take a look at the overall stats for Zellsis vs Woot in the game he 'completely threw'. Even though it was a pretty straightforward loss for SEN, maybe you'll notice something.
he definitely played better throughout the tournament
Except... that he didn't really. Like we have the stats, they are virtually identical. And they both played 350+ rounds, so that complaint is mute. And on top of that they had almost identical runs. Played very similarly in their game against each other (despite it being pretty one sided). Started in the same group and both beat and lost to the exact same teams throughout the tourney (-Lev). Ended with almost identical Rating.
Do I think Woot is better? Yes, but Zellsis is not some bum who's far off like some people act. He's genuinely a top flex player
chrlxz [#15]woot is highly overrated but i am taking him over zellsis any day
riens is so clear of that fraud
Yuh_aye [#14]Go take a look at the overall stats for Zellsis vs Woot in the game he 'completely threw'. Even though it was a pretty straightforward loss for SEN, maybe you'll notice something.
he definitely played better throughout the tournament
Except... that he didn't really. Like we have the stats, they are virtually identical. And they both played 350+ rounds, so that complaint is mute. And on top of that they had almost identical runs. Played very similarly in their game against each other (despite it being pretty one sided). Started in the same group and both beat and lost to the exact same teams throughout the tourney (-Lev). Ended with almost identical Rating.
Do I think Woot is better? Yes, but Zellsis is not some bum who's far off like some people act. He's genuinely a top flex player
zellsis performance on some maps are quite literally the sole reason they loss. who cares bout overall? wo0t consistently played well through that series. sure zellsis dropped 20 on map 2 but they still lost that map so I dont really care. on abyss? where its 1-1 and the stakes are high, winning goes to lower finals, zellsis drops an ABYSMAL 4-18, 1-10 on attack, losing them the map.
rating wise both players are bound to be carried by assists cause its vlr, but in terms of individual performance? zellsis is zellshits and woot is wo0t. Id rather have a consistent mid player who does his job than a player who can play good but randomly shits the bed all over
BoF7ooM [#12]Just rating is 0.1 diff. ACS, ADR wise woot is noticeably better. If you watched the SEN vs TH game, woot was considerably better than zellsis. There's a reason why people didn't call woot out, because those who had watched the matches saw how well he performed, which vlr rating doesn't fully justify.
bruh its a <15 ACS and <15 ADR difference. Like it or not their stats are extremely similar. You can think Woot is better, which is fine, I do too. But people need to stop underrating Zellsis
Yuh_aye [#14]Go take a look at the overall stats for Zellsis vs Woot in the game he 'completely threw'. Even though it was a pretty straightforward loss for SEN, maybe you'll notice something.
he definitely played better throughout the tournament
Except... that he didn't really. Like we have the stats, they are virtually identical. And they both played 350+ rounds, so that complaint is mute. And on top of that they had almost identical runs. Played very similarly in their game against each other (despite it being pretty one sided). Started in the same group and both beat and lost to the exact same teams throughout the tourney (-Lev). Ended with almost identical Rating.
Do I think Woot is better? Yes, but Zellsis is not some bum who's far off like some people act. He's genuinely a top flex player
not saying I agree or disagree with you, but you're never going to win this argument. not because you're wrong (or right), but because people are never consistent with their arguments lmao
they'll point at numbers and stats if it helps their argument, then go "numbers aren't everything" if the numbers don't help their argument. they'll say a player's bad aim is forgiven because "he has good util/comms/etc," but then they'll say the exact opposite for another player. so on and so forth.
you are probably right and people on this website exaggerate so so much. in my opinion, if zellsis really were that bad as this website likes to claim, SEN would've replaced him long ago. i don't see why kaplan or drewspark would've kept him if they're looking at JUST numbers like vlr frogs do.
edit: looking at the chain above my comment... oh ma lawd
lordooohyeaa [#13]american = instantly trash
rightfully so
Classic EMEA superiority complex. not even EMEA. EU superiority complex
x_knowitall39_x [#17]zellsis performance on some maps are quite literally the sole reason they loss. who cares bout overall? wo0t consistently played well through that series. sure zellsis dropped 20 on map 2 but they still lost that map so I dont really care. on abyss? where its 1-1 and the stakes are high, winning goes to lower finals, zellsis drops an ABYSMAL 4-18, 1-10 on attack, losing them the map.
rating wise both players are bound to be carried by assists cause its vlr, but in terms of individual performance? zellsis is zellshits and woot is wo0t. Id rather have a consistent mid player who does his job than a player who can play good but randomly shits the bed all over
sure zellsis dropped 20 on map 2 but they still lost that map so I dont really care. on abyss? where its 1-1 and the stakes are high, winning goes to lower finals, zellsis drops an ABYSMAL 4-18, 1-10 on attack, losing them the map
So you're just cherrypicking to fit your preconception that Woot is far and away better or Zellsis is a complete bum or a mix of both. If you look overall, they did similar, even with the game being pretty decisively one-sided. If you take a step back and look at the overall tournament, they did similar.
If we're gonna cherrypick, why don't we look at both of their Map 5's vs GENG for the trophy?
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Zellsis is a good flex player, people act like he's Ange1 -----> He is underrated
Yuh_aye [#21]sure zellsis dropped 20 on map 2 but they still lost that map so I dont really care. on abyss? where its 1-1 and the stakes are high, winning goes to lower finals, zellsis drops an ABYSMAL 4-18, 1-10 on attack, losing them the map
So you're just cherrypicking to fit your preconception that Woot is far and away better or Zellsis is a complete bum or a mix of both. If you look overall, they did similar, even with the game being pretty decisively one-sided. If you take a step back and look at the overall tournament, they did similar.
If we're gonna cherrypick, why don't we look at both of their Map 5's vs GENG for the trophy?
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Zellsis is a good flex player, people act like he's Ange1 -----> He is underrated
this whole thing started for champs why are you going back to madrid?? hell that even further my point cause while zellsis was playing like shit at home wo0t was at shanghai dominating
point is wo0t was consistently mid
zellsis was inconsistent with plays and could be real good one map and real shit the next map. overall they did relatively the same ONLY if you look at stats. based on impact zellsis quite literally costed them the win. its no different than saying munchkin was shit because during haven with sen vs GenG he was 7-15 or something, but he won them like 6 rounds cause his kills were extremely high impact. stop looking at solely the # of kills or solely what rating they are cause who gives a fuck, look at the outcome of what won them maps and what lost them maps
and before you say his 4 kills were impactful. no, no they were not, that map might as well have been a 4v5
I dont even know what youre arguing. you think wo0t played better, I think wo0t played better. what the fuck is your argument that because zellsis had the same rating as wo0t zellsis is just as
good as woot? cause that might be the most VLR take ever
edit - all of this is based on champs. personally I still think overall for the year wo0t absofuckinglutely clears zellsis in performance
x_knowitall39_x [#22]this whole thing started for champs why are you going back to madrid?? hell that even further my point cause while zellsis was playing like shit at home wo0t was at shanghai dominating
point is wo0t was consistently mid
zellsis was inconsistent with plays and could be real good one map and real shit the next map. overall they did relatively the same ONLY if you look at stats. based on impact zellsis quite literally costed them the win. its no different than saying munchkin was shit because during haven with sen vs GenG he was 7-15 or something, but he won them like 6 rounds cause his kills were extremely high impact. stop looking at solely the # of kills or solely what rating they are cause who gives a fuck, look at the outcome of what won them maps and what lost them maps
and before you say his 4 kills were impactful. no, no they were not, that map might as well have been a 4v5
I dont even know what youre arguing. you think wo0t played better, I think wo0t played better. what the fuck is your argument that because zellsis had the same rating as wo0t zellsis is just as
good as woot? cause that might be the most VLR take everedit - all of this is based on champs. personally I still think overall for the year wo0t absofuckinglutely clears zellsis in performance
Ngl this is clown behavior. Your being completely selective with how your treating them
You apply one set of standards and then you make up reasons why we can't do they same the other way around
Zellsis played really well map 2? - Noo!!! it doesnt matter cuz they lost !!!
Woot stunk up the first Lev game? - No!!! Its only 1 game look at the rest of the year !!!
Talk about the rest of the Year? - No!!! Why are you going back to madrid !!! (literally next sentence talking about shanghai)
Yuh_aye [#23]Ngl this is clown behavior. Your being completely selective with how your treating them
You apply one set of standards and then you make up reasons why we can't do they same the other way around
Zellsis played really well map 2? - Noo!!! it doesnt matter cuz they lost !!!
Woot stunk up the first Lev game? - No!!! Its only 1 game look at the rest of the year !!!
Talk about the rest of the Year? - No!!! Why are you going back to madrid !!! (literally next sentence talking about shanghai)
-
- map 2 into map 3 is furthering my point of zellsis being good one map and really bad the next, cause hes inconsistent, only reason I brought it up
-
again, woot is consistent, 560 rounds (almost 200 more the zellsis) and relatively the same rating. lev was a shit game, absolutely. but he was consistently shit that series so im prouid
-
I only brought up shanghai cause you brought up madrid, thats why I said "why are you going back to madrid, hell that even furthers my point.." it was never a main focus of my argument to begin with.
you care too much about rating man. woot is better, you think woot is better, there is no argument here then
anyways thanks for the past time, and also
Discord