why is berlin format bad?

i don't understand why its bad. i think it helps regions compete with each other and that's what berlin is all about.

i think most people dont like the single elim to figure out the winner
but champions will probably fix that since its the final final tournament of the VCT

People argue, that instead of group finals, there should be an 8 team single elim bracket with two teams qualifying from all groups. This means there is more possibility with interplay between groups, so more exposure.

The counterargument is, that the scheduling would not allow it reasonably.

KiwisAreAwesome [#2]

i think most people dont like the single elim to figure out the winner
but champions will probably fix that since its the final final tournament of the VCT

Champions will be single elim. Every major tournament is single elim. Masters should be double elim (due to it being basically a qualifier) snd champions single elim

Huge rematch potential, less diversity in unique matches

PrTsty [#4]

Champions will be single elim. Every major tournament is single elim. Masters should be double elim (due to it being basically a qualifier) snd champions single elim

Agreed

KiwisAreAwesome [#2]

i think most people dont like the single elim to figure out the winner
but champions will probably fix that since its the final final tournament of the VCT

Single elimination playoffs isn't the issue here. The issue is groups have only one team from each 4 groups make it out. This would be easily solved if they just had 2 teams from each group make out and just add a quarterfinals to the playoffs.

You can go 2-1 in a DOUBLE ELIM bracket in groups and not make it out of groups. Aside from the 4 team single elim playoffs it just doesnt even mathematically make sense lmao

ArgieGR8ArgieB8ArgieM8 [#3]

People argue, that instead of group finals, there should be an 8 team single elim bracket with two teams qualifying from all groups. This means there is more possibility with interplay between groups, so more exposure.

The counterargument is, that the scheduling would not allow it reasonably.

This is not true, if they turn the current group final into the quarterfinals for the playoff bracket its still the exact same number of sets with 2 teams coming out of groups now

vollizie [#7]

Single elimination playoffs isn't the issue here. The issue is groups have only one team from each 4 groups make it out. This would be easily solved if they just had 2 teams from each group make out and just add a quarterfinals to the playoffs.

that too ^^^^

redlotus [#8]

You can go 2-1 in a DOUBLE ELIM bracket in groups and not make it out of groups. Aside from the 4 team single elim playoffs it just doesnt even mathematically make sense lmao

And team can go 2 0 in groups and then lose in quarterfinals, same shit

kocunar [#11]

And team can go 2 0 in groups and then lose in quarterfinals, same shit

Yes but that team will most likely be reseeded and play a new team in the quarterfinals instead of losing to the same person in a group twice or beating then once and losing once. Your scenario atleast creates a new match up

redlotus [#12]

Yes but that team will most likely be reseeded and play a new team in the quarterfinals instead of losing to the same person in a group twice or beating then once and losing once. Your scenario atleast creates a new match up

That's not really a bad thing tho.

A "rematch" could end up being a more interesting storyline than a new matchup.

A little repetition is actually good for the tournament.

redlotus [#9]

This is not true, if they turn the current group final into the quarterfinals for the playoff bracket its still the exact same number of sets with 2 teams coming out of groups now

read: https://www.vlr.gg/post/194944/riot-please-fix-the-bracket

sheesh_gamer [#13]

That's not really a bad thing tho.

A "rematch" could end up being a more interesting storyline than a new matchup.

A little repetition is actually good for the tournament.

I dont agree, I don’t want to see 16 teams rematch each other until there is 4 left. It just kinda feels less like a meeting of the international masters and seeing different team styles clash

ArgieGR8ArgieB8ArgieM8 [#14]

read: https://www.vlr.gg/post/194944/riot-please-fix-the-bracket

I would honestly prefer the solution seen right under that where the groups don’t always match up , but I guess riot wants 3 bo3 from 1 group each day

1. Only one team coming out of group with 4 teams from different region. And we've 4 EMEA and 3 NA teams, so 3 groups will be basically EMEA vs NA with no chance for others (I'm sorry, but I don't think smb besides Vision Strikers could complete against EMEA and NA) and other group will be probably VS vs some EMEA team. Also team can go 2-1 and don't make play-offs, which is kinda stupid.
2. Potentially two rematches in each group, so maximum 8 rematches in 27 games. It's bad for viewership (much less people will watch same teams play again) and therefore for Riot and sponsors.
3. Single elemination play-offs. I don't really mind it, but it's kinda painful anyway because we can see smth like Acend vs Sen in semis and not in final.

vollizie [#7]

Single elimination playoffs isn't the issue here. The issue is groups have only one team from each 4 groups make it out. This would be easily solved if they just had 2 teams from each group make out and just add a quarterfinals to the playoffs.

I can see why people don't care for that, but overall I don't think its that big a deal. Would've been nice if 2 teams made it out though.

Ic1 [#17]

1. Only one team coming out of group with 4 teams from different region. And we've 4 EMEA and 3 NA teams, so 3 groups will be basically EMEA vs NA with no chance for others (I'm sorry, but I don't think smb besides Vision Strikers could complete against EMEA and NA) and other group will be probably VS vs some EMEA team. Also team can go 2-1 and don't make play-offs, which is kinda stupid.
2. Potentially two rematches in each group, so maximum 8 rematches in 27 games. It's bad for viewership (much less people will watch same teams play again) and therefore for Riot and sponsors.
3. Single elemination play-offs. I don't really mind it, but it's kinda painful anyway because we can see smth like Acend vs Sen in semis and not in final.

Ye nit the single elim is because of time issues. I think they wouldve done a gsl/round robin into a 8 team double elim

You only need to beat 2-3 teams out of 16 and you make 4th place.