It WILL be the greatest and hardest masters/champions run of all time.
5
If Sentinels win Madrid
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Asuna_Yuuki [#2]Nah
This masters is objectively easier than others because of the format + less teams
Yes but I’m also counting their Kickoff run
Asuna_Yuuki [#2]Nah
This masters is objectively easier than others because of the format + less teams
nah this masters has top 2 from every region. No filler lcq teams (excess fpx sry) so no match is an easy win.
Siigma777 [#4]nah this masters has top 2 from every region. No filler lcq teams (excess fpx sry) so no match is an easy win.
You are lowkey really harsh on fpx, they may not have looked strategically deep but individually they are a good team. Really unlucky to have faced KC and compared to the freebies in masters and champs before, they are better imo
WhoseTao [#5]You are lowkey really harsh on fpx, they may not have looked strategically deep but individually they are a good team. Really unlucky to have faced KC and compared to the freebies in masters and champs before, they are better imo
I think they're a good team, but they just aren't on the level of any other team there. They are the only one's in the whole tourney who have yet to get a map. They are way too inconsistent, they could string together rounds but the second that momentum broke they were unable to get anything going again. I think like KangKang said, give it 2-3 and china will have multiple scary teams
Siigma777 [#4]nah this masters has top 2 from every region. No filler lcq teams (excess fpx sry) so no match is an easy win.
No matter how you think about it more teams is harder
More teams means each team has less of a chance of winning because you have to split the odds between more teams
Its literally basic math/logic
Siigma777 [#6]I think they're a good team, but they just aren't on the level of any other team there. They are the only one's in the whole tourney who have yet to get a map. They are way too inconsistent, they could string together rounds but the second that momentum broke they were unable to get anything going again. I think like KangKang said, give it 2-3 and china will have multiple scary teams
I think your point would be more valid had fpx faced any team except the clear favorites for madrid
Asuna_Yuuki [#7]No matter how you think about it more teams is harder
More teams means each team has less of a chance of winning because you have to split the odds between more teams
Its literally basic math/logic
Except each teams don't have the same odds, and by such each groups don't either. Champs 2023, group d had 4 teams Navi, liquid (maybe not as much), Loud and DRX, and all 4 were good enough to get through, but because of their groups they didn't qualify over other teams like EDG, Fut, Billi Billi. Now this on paper sounds harder, but is also extremely unfair to the good teams getting grouped with other good teams.
And since we are statistically talking about odds here, then again because the wider the group catalogs get, the worse teams get because usually there are only 2 teams that can hang with each other in a region. Now it doesn't look like that, but in the past it has. Americas last year was Loud and EG; EMEA was just FNC, Pacific was just PRX. So when you add worse teams, you basically get freebies in the system that give an advantage to any top tier team that ends up facing them. So when you do your odds calculation, it is not a simple even odds case, some teams will have higher odds, and others with lower, which will be treated as a free +1
unfortunately no. If sen wins madrid it will be the hardest run of all time? How about geng win madrid? what about fpx? prx? edg? would it still be the hardest run of all time? Whats so special about sen winning madrid lmfao they came in like top 3 on everyones power rankings if anything every masters and champions run after teams started to get good at the game was objectively harder. madrid features eight teams that made it through a single elim playoff match and 8 teams literally had to play like 2 matches just a few hours apart. This masters were missing players boostio, com, aspas, demon1, chronicle, leo, alfa, mako, buzz, som, fns, shao, suygetsu, keznit, mwzera, sayaplayer, cloud, sayf, nats, trexx, and more. This masters is probably the worst masters format wise. This will be hard for sen fans to take in but thats just the truth. I get where ur coming from that sen was like a mid americas team last year and whatnot but that argument just doesnt make any sense. just because a team has improved that makes their run harder? like ?? if thats ur logic then idk what to say. I can lowkey sense this was bait but idk man some ppl on vlr are genuinely braindead
smthlikeyou11 [#10]unfortunately no. If sen wins madrid it will be the hardest run of all time? How about geng win madrid? what about fpx? prx? edg? would it still be the hardest run of all time? Whats so special about sen winning madrid lmfao they came in like top 3 on everyones power rankings if anything every masters and champions run after teams started to get good at the game was objectively harder. madrid features eight teams that made it through a single elim playoff match and 8 teams literally had to play like 2 matches just a few hours apart. This masters were missing players boostio, com, aspas, demon1, chronicle, leo, alfa, mako, buzz, som, fns, shao, suygetsu, keznit, mwzera, sayaplayer, cloud, sayf, nats, trexx, and more. This masters is probably the worst masters format wise. This will be hard for sen fans to take in but thats just the truth. I get where ur coming from that sen was like a mid americas team last year and whatnot but that argument just doesnt make any sense. just because a team has improved that makes their run harder? like ?? if thats ur logic then idk what to say. I can lowkey sense this was bait but idk man some ppl on vlr are genuinely braindead
unfortunately no. If sen wins madrid it will be the hardest run of all time? How about geng win madrid? what about fpx? prx? edg? would it still be the hardest run of all time? Whats so special about sen winning madrid lmfao they came in like top 3 on everyones power rankings if anything every masters and champions run after teams started to get good at the game was objectively harder. madrid features eight teams that made it through a single elim playoff match and 8 teams literally had to play like 2 matches just a few hours apart. This masters were missing players boostio, com, aspas, demon1, chronicle, leo, alfa, mako, buzz, som, fns, shao, suygetsu, keznit, mwzera, sayaplayer, cloud, sayf, nats, trexx, and more. This masters is probably the worst masters format wise. This will be hard for sen fans to take in but thats just the truth. I get where ur coming from that sen was like a mid americas team last year and whatnot but that argument just doesnt make any sense. just because a team has improved that makes their run harder? like ?? if thats ur logic then idk what to say. I can lowkey sense this was bait but idk man some ppl on vlr are genuinely braindead
smthlikeyou11 [#10]unfortunately no. If sen wins madrid it will be the hardest run of all time? How about geng win madrid? what about fpx? prx? edg? would it still be the hardest run of all time? Whats so special about sen winning madrid lmfao they came in like top 3 on everyones power rankings if anything every masters and champions run after teams started to get good at the game was objectively harder. madrid features eight teams that made it through a single elim playoff match and 8 teams literally had to play like 2 matches just a few hours apart. This masters were missing players boostio, com, aspas, demon1, chronicle, leo, alfa, mako, buzz, som, fns, shao, suygetsu, keznit, mwzera, sayaplayer, cloud, sayf, nats, trexx, and more. This masters is probably the worst masters format wise. This will be hard for sen fans to take in but thats just the truth. I get where ur coming from that sen was like a mid americas team last year and whatnot but that argument just doesnt make any sense. just because a team has improved that makes their run harder? like ?? if thats ur logic then idk what to say. I can lowkey sense this was bait but idk man some ppl on vlr are genuinely braindead
no one is reading a block of text this big when its about SEN im ngl
Psion [#12]no one is reading a block of text this big when its about SEN im ngl
yea i figured the average vlr user attention span is 5 seconds and im too lazy to break it into point form
smthlikeyou11 [#10]unfortunately no. If sen wins madrid it will be the hardest run of all time? How about geng win madrid? what about fpx? prx? edg? would it still be the hardest run of all time? Whats so special about sen winning madrid lmfao they came in like top 3 on everyones power rankings if anything every masters and champions run after teams started to get good at the game was objectively harder. madrid features eight teams that made it through a single elim playoff match and 8 teams literally had to play like 2 matches just a few hours apart. This masters were missing players boostio, com, aspas, demon1, chronicle, leo, alfa, mako, buzz, som, fns, shao, suygetsu, keznit, mwzera, sayaplayer, cloud, sayf, nats, trexx, and more. This masters is probably the worst masters format wise. This will be hard for sen fans to take in but thats just the truth. I get where ur coming from that sen was like a mid americas team last year and whatnot but that argument just doesnt make any sense. just because a team has improved that makes their run harder? like ?? if thats ur logic then idk what to say. I can lowkey sense this was bait but idk man some ppl on vlr are genuinely braindead
You can’t argue that they had the toughest road to qualify in the world. Then to come to Madrid and draw with TH and KC only KC which besides maybe GENG are the 2 best teams there. Only KC could be comparable when it comes to difficulty qualifying because they had to go through TH and FNC but even they aren’t amazing teams because Sentinels beat TH and FNC hasn’t been the same since Tokyo losing in Champs but also almost losing to Cloud9 and Redbull Home Grounds. TH easily qualified, GenG easily qualified besides losing to PRX but was put into the easiest group, PRX easily qualified, EDG qualified easily and idk FPX might have been hard but they aint winning shit.
ckzera [#14]You can’t argue that they had the toughest road to qualify in the world. Then to come to Madrid and draw with TH and KC only KC which besides maybe GENG are the 2 best teams there. Only KC could be comparable when it comes to difficulty qualifying because they had to go through TH and FNC but even they aren’t amazing teams because Sentinels beat TH and FNC hasn’t been the same since Tokyo losing in Champs but also almost losing to Cloud9 and Redbull Home Grounds. TH easily qualified, GenG easily qualified besides losing to PRX but was put into the easiest group, PRX easily qualified, EDG qualified easily and idk FPX might have been hard but they aint winning shit.
maybe toughest road to qualify for madrid but that does not make it the hardest champs/masters run lol
Asuna_Yuuki [#2]Nah
This masters is objectively easier than others because of the format + less teams
bruh got 22 down frags.. thats tough lmao
smthlikeyou11 [#16]maybe toughest road to qualify for madrid but that does not make it the hardest champs/masters run lol
how hard a run is also just depends on how far above the rest of the competition the winnning team is.
the best example of this is Champions 2022 Playoffs, where the only "weak link" was Team Liquid, it had the best top 6 to date with Peak FPX, peak DRX, peak Optic, Peak LOUD, FNC with the alfa-boaster-derke core, and Peak XSET, but LOUD lost 1 map that whole playoff run
This thread is prolly bait but
If SEN did win Madrid, would it be the hardest or greatest run in VCT? No.
Madrid is a tournament that consists of only 8 teams fighting in a swiss stage to qualify for playoffs. These teams had also gone through a single elimination playoff format. Realistically, this is the weakest format of a lan event + the weakest format for qualification we had since lock-in and that there’s really nothing special about them winning Madrid. What makes it worse is that you guys had already said Sen is winning it all and that they beat Loud and Nrg so what on earth is this take in the first place? Did Sen play with a sub to call their run the hardest? Did they had technical issues? Were they just an lcq team? Did they only qualify because the true qualifier couldn’t? No, so there’s absolutely no merit to them winning Madrid
WhoseTao [#9]Except each teams don't have the same odds, and by such each groups don't either. Champs 2023, group d had 4 teams Navi, liquid (maybe not as much), Loud and DRX, and all 4 were good enough to get through, but because of their groups they didn't qualify over other teams like EDG, Fut, Billi Billi. Now this on paper sounds harder, but is also extremely unfair to the good teams getting grouped with other good teams.
And since we are statistically talking about odds here, then again because the wider the group catalogs get, the worse teams get because usually there are only 2 teams that can hang with each other in a region. Now it doesn't look like that, but in the past it has. Americas last year was Loud and EG; EMEA was just FNC, Pacific was just PRX. So when you add worse teams, you basically get freebies in the system that give an advantage to any top tier team that ends up facing them. So when you do your odds calculation, it is not a simple even odds case, some teams will have higher odds, and others with lower, which will be treated as a free +1
No bro its quite literally impossible for a team to have higher odds in a tournament with more teams even if the odds aren’t split evenly
If 3rd seeds qualed to madrid every single team’s odds would be lower because you have to split it between more teams. Its not possible for a team’s odds to go up as the number of teams increases
Its not even about the quality of the team. More teams = more split odds
There are obviously favorites but they are less favored if there are more teams
You don’t understand statistics
Ha4dy [#18]bruh got 22 down frags.. thats tough lmao
People can’t handle the truth smh
Most stupid masters format ever with the least amount of teams
It is objectively the easiest masters event
WhoseTao [#8]I think your point would be more valid had fpx faced any team except the clear favorites for madrid
Clear favorites? 💀
Asuna_Yuuki [#2]Nah
This masters is objectively easier than others because of the format + less teams
bro got slammed with the downfrags
Sky1k [#25]bro got slammed with the downfrags
Its crazy because I literally have the perfect logic/stats to back me up
SEN fans in denial
Recency bias . There is also the boomer mental that ours time is hardest. You don't sweat bullets when there is other teams competing . Even overtimes feal easy when you don't have favourites hence matches seem less competitive or easy . But when its the team you support by heart, you will be getting stressed and the matches will feel more important.
Asuna_Yuuki [#23]Clear favorites? 💀
they are tho. If sen loses today, i dont think anyone would argue about that.
Asuna_Yuuki [#7]No matter how you think about it more teams is harder
More teams means each team has less of a chance of winning because you have to split the odds between more teams
Its literally basic math/logic
Ur not cooking
Twentytwo [#29]Fpx Copenhagen has to be the hardest surely
Yup, and they played with sub in group stage
TheAceGamer30 [#30]Ur not cooking
Have you ever taken a statistics class?
If you have you know I am right
Its just the truth
omg its so hard to win a masters without ANY former champions of 2023 in the event, EG fucked the others teams who bought their players because they didnt allowed those players to prac before oficially selling them, next tournament they will show their form and it will be a lot harder than to play against those kids from EMEA.
Hashib [#28]they are tho. If sen loses today, i dont think anyone would argue about that.
no they aren't. even before they lost you saying "if sen loses" proves they weren't clear favorites
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