- Saadhak is currently the best igl in the world
- Speaking of igls, JohnQT is 10x better than D0phh
- Yay cannot play skye
- Sacy cannot play skye
- C9 has a lot of loose ends
- Boostio is solid. He's been underrated as an igl bc of Demon1 & Potter
- Mwzera needs some help
- Qck isn't a fraud. Aspas is still better though
- DFM might actually win a game this year
- The top teams look like the ones that were predicted unless either G2 or KRU becomes a dark horse
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Moatz's Takeaways So Far
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My rebuttals:
- Saadhak has been the best igl in the world undoubtedly since Masters 1 2022, and i personally loved him when he was on vikings in 2021
- OFC he is dephh is british
- Yay could probably play an aggressive old skye but with the changes teams are moving away from that so yay will adapt slowly like he usually does
- https://www.vlr.gg/183791/loud-vs-sentinels-champions-tour-2023-americas-league-w4/?game=118968&tab=overview
- Its vanity he plays like he's still on a T2 CS team
- Boostio is more than solid
- Mwzera has always needed help, you're 4 years behind
- nobody who understands brazilian valorant though of QCK as a fraud
- they are definitely better, but the gap between them and the 9th team has definitely increased from last year
- the top teams have definitely shifted though, Loud up, NRG down a lil bit, 100T up, Sen DOWN, C9 Down a lil
Psion [#3]My rebuttals:
- Saadhak has been the best igl in the world undoubtedly since Masters 1 2022, and i personally loved him when he was on vikings in 2021
- OFC he is dephh is british
- Yay could probably play an aggressive old skye but with the changes teams are moving away from that so yay will adapt slowly like he usually does
- https://www.vlr.gg/183791/loud-vs-sentinels-champions-tour-2023-americas-league-w4/?game=118968&tab=overview
- Its vanity he plays like he's still on a T2 CS team
- Boostio is more than solid
- Mwzera has always needed help, you're 4 years behind
- nobody who understands brazilian valorant though of QCK as a fraud
- they are definitely better, but the gap between them and the 9th team has definitely increased from last year
- the top teams have definitely shifted though, Loud up, NRG down a lil bit, 100T up, Sen DOWN, C9 Down a lil
Bro said sen down and c9 a little down lmaoooooo
AstroGalaxy [#4]Bro said sen down and c9 a little down lmaoooooo
how would SEN not be down, people expected them to beat LOUD? and c9 were expected to destroy mibr so obviously they are down a little since it was a close 2-1
Congo1 [#2]Who asked?
As an NA fan i think the region is terrible and will not win a LAN
As an eu fan, I disagree. U r a fan of the reigning world champions. U have LOUD, NRG, SEN & LEV. Meanwhile, we r literally a 0.6 team region 😭
Psion [#3]My rebuttals:
- Saadhak has been the best igl in the world undoubtedly since Masters 1 2022, and i personally loved him when he was on vikings in 2021
- OFC he is dephh is british
- Yay could probably play an aggressive old skye but with the changes teams are moving away from that so yay will adapt slowly like he usually does
- https://www.vlr.gg/183791/loud-vs-sentinels-champions-tour-2023-americas-league-w4/?game=118968&tab=overview
- Its vanity he plays like he's still on a T2 CS team
- Boostio is more than solid
- Mwzera has always needed help, you're 4 years behind
- nobody who understands brazilian valorant though of QCK as a fraud
- they are definitely better, but the gap between them and the 9th team has definitely increased from last year
- the top teams have definitely shifted though, Loud up, NRG down a lil bit, 100T up, Sen DOWN, C9 Down a lil
My rebuttals to ur rebuttals:
(1) - Master's 1 2022 was literally when Optic won Iceland. It was abt 70-30 in favor of FNS until 2023 where LOUD performed much better than NRG
(4) - His all time rating with sova is 1.28. On skye, his all time rating is only 0.96. Clearly, there is a big gap
(7) - I disagree bc he was good but he wasn't solo-carrying Furia last season. Dgzin was good & Khalil had some solid performances
(10) - When I said top teams, I was referring to the group of LOUD, NRG, SEN, LEV. Those were the 4 big teams who ppl expected to take it all. LEV looked a lil shaky ngl but Imma give them time
moatz [#7]My rebuttals to ur rebuttals:
(1) - Master's 1 2022 was literally when Optic won Iceland. It was abt 70-30 in favor of FNS until 2023 where LOUD performed much better than NRG
(4) - His all time rating with sova is 1.28. On skye, his all time rating is only 0.96. Clearly, there is a big gap
(7) - I disagree bc he was good but he wasn't solo-carrying Furia last season. Dgzin was good & Khalil had some solid performances
(10) - When I said top teams, I was referring to the group of LOUD, NRG, SEN, LEV. Those were the 4 big teams who ppl expected to take it all. LEV looked a lil shaky ngl but Imma give them time
damn i didn't think of that
damn u edited it
moatz [#6]As an eu fan, I disagree. U r a fan of the reigning world champions. U have LOUD, NRG, SEN & LEV. Meanwhile, we r literally a 0.6 team region 😭
Woatz as always
Psion [#5]how would SEN not be down, people expected them to beat LOUD? and c9 were expected to destroy mibr so obviously they are down a little since it was a close 2-1
Sen cant be down that much we need to see them play 100t and we need to see nrg vs loud to place tnem tbh
I always thought c9 was trash so maybe its a matter of perspective 🤷♀️
AstroGalaxy [#11]Sen cant be down that much we need to see them play 100t and we need to see nrg vs loud to place tnem tbh
I always thought c9 was trash so maybe its a matter of perspective 🤷♀️
its after one match, obviously they shouldn't be down that much but i am basing mine off of the overall community opinion of teams, and the community over-reacts
moatz [#13]i was just reserving a slot
(1) Remember he beat Optic in upper finals, which was when saadhak first took it(it flipped after grand finals, but went back to saadhak after champs)
(4) i was not arguing that his skye was better, i was arguing that his skye was servicable. he's been the #1 sova ITW imo since hiko retired
(7) sure last season he wasn't solo carrying furia last season, but he was dropping 700 ACS on gamelanders blue in 2020 and still losing
(10) i'd say that Lev-NRG-Loud are their own 3 now and SEN-100T-C9 are a new 3 under them
Psion [#14](1) Remember he beat Optic in upper finals, which was when saadhak first took it(it flipped after grand finals, but went back to saadhak after champs)
(4) i was not arguing that his skye was better, i was arguing that his skye was servicable. he's been the #1 sova ITW imo since hiko retired
(7) sure last season he wasn't solo carrying furia last season, but he was dropping 700 ACS on gamelanders blue in 2020 and still losing
(10) i'd say that Lev-NRG-Loud are their own 3 now and SEN-100T-C9 are a new 3 under them
(1) - I feel like it was split tbh. I think most SA fans considered it to be Saadhak but outside of SA, ppl were calling FNS the best. Either way, it doesn't matter bc Saadhak holds the title now.
(4) I think calling him the #1 sova in the world since hiko retired is a stretch. He was one of the best in 2022 but in 23, his stocks definitely fell.
(7) - I can't rlly debate this one bc I nvr watched Gamelanders Blue. I only started watching him when he was on Vivo Keyd
(10) - Loud & NRG I agree. But if 1 round had gone differently, LEV would have lost to 100T. They are also in the 2nd tier imo
moatz [#16](1) - I feel like it was split tbh. I think most SA fans considered it to be Saadhak but outside of SA, ppl were calling FNS the best. Either way, it doesn't matter bc Saadhak holds the title now.
(4) I think calling him the #1 sova in the world since hiko retired is a stretch. He was one of the best in 2022 but in 23, his stocks definitely fell.
(7) - I can't rlly debate this one bc I nvr watched Gamelanders Blue. I only started watching him when he was on Vivo Keyd
(10) - Loud & NRG I agree. But if 1 round had gone differently, LEV would have lost to 100T. They are also in the 2nd tier imo
(1) it was definitely split between multiple people and between regions but SA's support of saadhak was total while NA was split between NRG, Shaz (SEN fans), and another igl i think
(4) i didn't mean play i meant over the course of the past 2 years he's been the best
(7) https://www.vlr.gg/2764/detona-gaming-vs-gamelanders-onfire-cup-closed-qualifier-swiss-round-5/?game=all&tab=overview dropped 66 in 2 maps to lose
(10) but Lev beat 100T, a team in tier 2, so they should still be given the benefit of the doubt and it should be assumed they play down to their competition
moatz [#16](1) - I feel like it was split tbh. I think most SA fans considered it to be Saadhak but outside of SA, ppl were calling FNS the best. Either way, it doesn't matter bc Saadhak holds the title now.
(4) I think calling him the #1 sova in the world since hiko retired is a stretch. He was one of the best in 2022 but in 23, his stocks definitely fell.
(7) - I can't rlly debate this one bc I nvr watched Gamelanders Blue. I only started watching him when he was on Vivo Keyd
(10) - Loud & NRG I agree. But if 1 round had gone differently, LEV would have lost to 100T. They are also in the 2nd tier imo
oops
Psion [#17](1) it was definitely split between multiple people and between regions but SA's support of saadhak was total while NA was split between NRG, Shaz (SEN fans), and another igl i think
(4) i didn't mean play i meant over the course of the past 2 years he's been the best
(7) https://www.vlr.gg/2764/detona-gaming-vs-gamelanders-onfire-cup-closed-qualifier-swiss-round-5/?game=all&tab=overview dropped 66 in 2 maps to lose
(10) but Lev beat 100T, a team in tier 2, so they should still be given the benefit of the doubt and it should be assumed they play down to their competition
(1) By the end of 22, it was maybe 90% for FNS & 10% for Shaz from NA. The percent that said Shaz were just clutching at straws from 21. Idk who the 3rd one ur talking abt is though
(4) If it was the beginning of 23, I would possibly agree. However, I think Sacy & even Crashies both took a backseat to players like Leo, C0m, and Cauanzin this yr.
(7) I didn't watch the BR scene back then so imma just agree with u.
(10) This I disagree with. They won 2 close maps against 100T but got stomped 13-3 on split. I don't think that can be excused to "playing down to their competition"
meadows [#15]I’m watching the TLN/TS match rn, governer is the truth
Yea. Governor was actually pretty good that game
moatz [#19](1) By the end of 22, it was maybe 90% for FNS & 10% for Shaz from NA. The percent that said Shaz were just clutching at straws from 21. Idk who the 3rd one ur talking abt is though
(4) If it was the beginning of 23, I would possibly agree. However, I think Sacy & even Crashies both took a backseat to players like Leo, C0m, and Cauanzin this yr.
(7) I didn't watch the BR scene back then so imma just agree with u.
(10) This I disagree with. They won 2 close maps against 100T but got stomped 13-3 on split. I don't think that can be excused to "playing down to their competition"
(1) yes by the end of 2022 it was 90-10, i was talking about when saadhak first took it after upper finals, it was still much more split, and i was thinking of steel as the only reason he wasn't still on 100T was mental health issues, he still had some believers (me included but i was saadhak first)
(4) they definitely took a back seat to those players, but they were still in the picture last year while cauanzin, C0m, Leo, etc were not even in the picture in 2022
(7) there are some old Plat chat episodes on it if you are interested
(10) i get where you are coming from and i agree with you on premise, but at the end of the day maps win games not rounds
Congo1 [#2]Who asked?
As an NA fan i think the region is terrible and will not win a LAN
I actually asked Goatz for his opinions on what has happened :3
Psion [#23](1) yes by the end of 2022 it was 90-10, i was talking about when saadhak first took it after upper finals, it was still much more split, and i was thinking of steel as the only reason he wasn't still on 100T was mental health issues, he still had some believers (me included but i was saadhak first)
(4) they definitely took a back seat to those players, but they were still in the picture last year while cauanzin, C0m, Leo, etc were not even in the picture in 2022
(7) there are some old Plat chat episodes on it if you are interested
(10) i get where you are coming from and i agree with you on premise, but at the end of the day maps win games not rounds
(1) - I think ur confusing the yrs. Shaz, Steel & FNS were competing for that spot in 21. Steel had been dropped from 100T in 21 & played tier 2 for the entity of 22. In 22, NA was relatively unanimous abt Fenis
(4) - True but if ur looking at it like that, Crashies would be the best. Sacy had the edge in 22 but in 23, Crashies played many more games internationally. Sacy only played 1 where they lost to FNC. In addition, Crashies was tied with nzr for the best iniator stats in the Americas league as seen here: https://www.vlr.gg/event/stats/1189/champions-tour-2023-americas-league
At Tokyo, he was the 3rd highest rated sova after rb & c0m.
When NRG & SEN faced, Crashies performed well on sova. Meanwhile, Zekken was the one on sova and not sacy as seen here: https://www.vlr.gg/183781/nrg-esports-vs-sentinels-champions-tour-2023-americas-league-w2
(7) - I will check them out for sure
(10) - I agree maps win games but if ur 1 round away from losing to 100T, there is no way they can be placed in the loud/nrg tier as of now
moatz [#25](1) - I think ur confusing the yrs. Shaz, Steel & FNS were competing for that spot in 21. Steel had been dropped from 100T in 21 & played tier 2 for the entity of 22. In 22, NA was relatively unanimous abt Fenis
(4) - True but if ur looking at it like that, Crashies would be the best. Sacy had the edge in 22 but in 23, Crashies played many more games internationally. Sacy only played 1 where they lost to FNC. In addition, Crashies was tied with nzr for the best iniator stats in the Americas league as seen here: https://www.vlr.gg/event/stats/1189/champions-tour-2023-americas-league
At Tokyo, he was the 3rd highest rated sova after rb & c0m.
When NRG & SEN faced, Crashies performed well on sova. Meanwhile, Zekken was the one on sova and not sacy as seen here: https://www.vlr.gg/183781/nrg-esports-vs-sentinels-champions-tour-2023-americas-league-w2
(7) - I will check them out for sure
(10) - I agree maps win games but if ur 1 round away from losing to 100T, there is no way they can be placed in the loud/nrg tier as of now
(1) no I am not, Steel still had his supporters at the time of masters 2022 because he was still on a mental health break (he was not dropped from 100T, he removed himself)
(4) we're getting WAYYY off topic my first rebuttal was saying that sacy's skye was servicable LMFAO
(10)- There is always a barrier team between tiers, Lev is that barrier team currently until further notice
Psion [#26](1) no I am not, Steel still had his supporters at the time of masters 2022 because he was still on a mental health break (he was not dropped from 100T, he removed himself)
(4) we're getting WAYYY off topic my first rebuttal was saying that sacy's skye was servicable LMFAO
(10)- There is always a barrier team between tiers, Lev is that barrier team currently until further notice
(1) - From what I saw from pros who were discussing igls on their streams, about 75% said fns, 15% said saadhak, and the remaining 10% split between shaz & steel were mostly vlr users. Idk abt the SA scene though. They were prolly like 80-20 for Saadhak & Fns
(4) - I can agree that it's servicable but he is doing significantly better on sova so there has to be some issue. The best sova comment caught me off guard which is why we went off topic. Crashies was better last yr but I'd say sacy is still top 3 though
(10) - 100T was expected to be 2nd worst NA team after EG. I think SEN should be that barrier & not LEV
moatz [#27](1) - From what I saw from pros who were discussing igls on their streams, about 75% said fns, 15% said saadhak, and the remaining 10% split between shaz & steel were mostly vlr users. Idk abt the SA scene though. They were prolly like 80-20 for Saadhak & Fns
(4) - I can agree that it's servicable but he is doing significantly better on sova so there has to be some issue. The best sova comment caught me off guard which is why we went off topic. Crashies was better last yr but I'd say sacy is still top 3 though
(10) - 100T was expected to be 2nd worst NA team after EG. I think SEN should be that barrier & not LEV
- much more 90-10 saadhak because of zombs NA and BR had a rivalry for a while
- i expected them to be better than C9 and thus far i'd say they have been (this is more due to me HATING how vanity igl's he always overcooks when he can just brute force stuff for a guranteed win in matches where he just has aimers (lock\in where he had yay and vs mibr when he had oxy are 2 examples)
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