given that ENGH (previous Gambit coach ) reached a verbal agreement with KC as new head coach could we maybe see d3ffo comeback 🤔
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d3ffo to kc ?
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clocksky888 [#7]D3ffo isn't too bad of an option ... but I'd look into some other prospects such as Stimx, sibeastw0w, SimonD4rk, Winteryrook, Anq, Tian, and/or similarly talented players, if they are planning to bring any....
All of those listed are absolute BEASTS of players.
I don’t think any of those is tier 1 level
I think Bisk I’d the closest it gets
Mortadelo [#12]I don’t think any of those is tier 1 level
I think Bisk I’d the closest it gets
Sorry for the WALL of text ahead... I just had to put it with some respect for the discussed players etc.
I must disagree with you on your point... But I don't see it to be too much out of reality. It's just simply I've been following those players since CIS-FIRST-STRIKE, if not before, and have slightly different view. Back in the days, I just preferred CIS/NAin general, since they were quicker to reveal a lot of their available talent - simply excess of talent in both regions IMHO... back in the day.
Those players, whether it Stimx, Anq, or Winteryrook, or others who are not discussed, have been simply left behind owing to the region's excessive talent pool. They are for sure aren't any weaker than Derke, Cl0ud, Shao, or anybody else for that matter, and have shown it on numerous occassions. Frankly through some ways of assessing, I'd tell that they have a strong chance of winning tier-S trophies, and becoming recognised S TIER player - if only they had been chosen to play for one of the top orgs before. It's just some had been giving opportunity, while others were left behind. And, as we all know, getting to that TOP team is the only thing that matters.
So, here we are, ultimately, since, with the collapse of CIS, I am not sure how many organizations are even looking into those players - CIS. And, for the time being, their only option is to compete in invitationals or specific leagues at whatever level they can find in order to stay relevant and in shape, in case some top-tier organization invites them to the trials, right? Whilst others were accepted, and some are presently playing for some organizations such as GEEKAY/NASR or one of Chinese teams (Tian), but others have yet to find a team to help them progress. Such is the reality, unfortunately -- but the HOPE is still there.
And to add... IMHO, It will never be too clear who fits in TOP tier teams and who doesn't, unless we see how they perform in trials or whatever scrims, and it's a very complicated topic to say the least, as say scouts too must to explain one's capacity and dig deep enough so that they could justify answering to set objectives by the org -- the topic is so vast that truly comprehending it will take pages and pages to even begin justifying of bringing someone from lower tiers - though overall expenses on S TIER players could be a good reason (and they are) to start searching fresh talents out there, and regardless of where, but not at the expense of the potential of them to perform equally as explained by the scout. <-- also a good share of trust goes with this.
At the end of the day, those listed and many more players from different regions do have the talent,and are on alert for the opportunity - imho should be given then... However, I am not in charge of making such calls. Yet, I can only raise awareness since I believe we've reached a weird point in EMEA/NA Valorant that is causing more than already evident stagnation... some bizarre time of indecisions with terrible calls from orgs and so on... But one simply need to look no further than how brilliantly Chinese region and Evil Geniuses have grown up, in the recent year or so, to see that the perfect opportunity/possibility of making things happen for any seeking advantage org still do exist --> btw, I don't recall anyone counting any of China/EG players, except for maybe Ethan, as S TIER material, back in the days, and that is, if we were to assess their teams by the VLR/HLTV standards - yet, both China/EG have proved everyone wrong ... The community is wrong not for the first time, and it will remain so <-- I mean, you already know this.
I will add the below just for those who are interested in studying those listed player. The process takes more stages but it could be a good start to begin here.
Stimx:
vs. Suygetsu/FORZE (Later... Forze won the CIS First Strike)
vs. Trexx
Early unlucko for Stimx vs. First Srtike CIS Finalists who later - kicked out Gambit to get to the Finals (after... Forze won First Strike CIS)
vs. solid OBG later winning the small tourney)
Anq:
vs. B1sk (performance tab)
vs. Finalists GMT - b01
vs. Finals Winner Dsyre - b01
Rinascimento: Relegation Final
Winteryrook:
b01 vs. sibeastw0w
vs. Derke/Cl0ud from back in the days
again vs. Derke/Cl0ud from back in the days
vs. Trexx - the match was CRACKED asf
Watasink/sibeastw0w
EMG Series
I haven't included any SimonD4rk/Anoxai matches, but anybody who is interested can look them up in the same way as above.
And some STATS in spoiler, of course:
TEAM PLAYER Agent RND KDA ACS ADR FK% FD%
------------------------------------------------------------
MCAST Stimx Jett 993 1.62 259 165 23 17
MCAST Stimx Raze 559 1.63 261 171 19 17
------------------------------------------------------------
OTPLD Anq Jett 234 1.3 279 184 24 15 <-- Rinascimento: Relegation
OTPLD Anq Jett 2058 1.4 244 156 20 16
OTPLD Anq Raze 163 1.7 268 176 15 12
------------------------------------------------------------
GEEKAY Winteryrook Raze 1655 1.57 267 171 21 17
GEEKAY Winteryrook Sage 1995 1.56 230 151 12 11
GEEKAY Winteryrook KAYO 1986 1.92 229 149 10 8
------------------------------------------------------------
NASR sibeastw0w Jett 2089 1.47 248 159 21 15
NASR sibeastw0w Raze 1033 1.70 284 186 21 15
------------------------------------------------------------
TBD SimonD4rk Jett 2598 1.42 247 158 22 16
TBD SimonD4rk Raze 1378 1.60 265 173 21 14
------------------------------------------------------------
LAND watasink Jett 887 1.35 246 153 18 15
LAND watasink Raze 711 1.43 256 171 18 16
------------------------------------------------------------
THZ Anoxai Jett 2757 1.4 243 158 22 16
THZ Anoxai Raze 880 1.5 251 173 19 16
------------------------------------------------------------
St. Petersburg Governor's Cup Valorant - Superfinal 2023
---------------------------------------------- -------------
MIX Anq Jett 76 .... 275 166 21 26
THZ Anoxai Jett/Raze 254 .... 272 175 29 14
5SMOKES SimonD4rk Jett/Raze 65 .... 267 189 18 15
MCAST watasink Jett/Raze 70 .... 253 175 13 7
MCAST stimx Jett/Raze 70 .... 240 170 24 13Ediit: Fixed Anoxai's stats, in the spoiler, of ACS/ADR - they were mistakenly swapped
clocksky888 [#13]Sorry for the WALL of text ahead... I just had to put it with some respect for the discussed players etc.
I must disagree with you on your point... But I don't see it to be too much out of reality. It's just simply I've been following those players since CIS-FIRST-STRIKE, if not before, and have slightly different view. Back in the days, I just preferred CIS/NAin general, since they were quicker to reveal a lot of their available talent - simply excess of talent in both regions IMHO... back in the day.
Those players, whether it Stimx, Anq, or Winteryrook, or others who are not discussed, have been simply left behind owing to the region's excessive talent pool. They are for sure aren't any weaker than Derke, Cl0ud, Shao, or anybody else for that matter, and have shown it on numerous occassions. Frankly through some ways of assessing, I'd tell that they have a strong chance of winning tier-S trophies, and becoming recognised S TIER player - if only they had been chosen to play for one of the top orgs before. It's just some had been giving opportunity, while others were left behind. And, as we all know, getting to that TOP team is the only thing that matters.
So, here we are, ultimately, since, with the collapse of CIS, I am not sure how many organizations are even looking into those players - CIS. And, for the time being, their only option is to compete in invitationals or specific leagues at whatever level they can find in order to stay relevant and in shape, in case some top-tier organization invites them to the trials, right? Whilst others were accepted, and some are presently playing for some organizations such as GEEKAY/NASR or one of Chinese teams (Tian), but others have yet to find a team to help them progress. Such is the reality, unfortunately -- but the HOPE is still there.
And to add... IMHO, It will never be too clear who fits in TOP tier teams and who doesn't, unless we see how they perform in trials or whatever scrims, and it's a very complicated topic to say the least, as say scouts too must to explain one's capacity and dig deep enough so that they could justify answering to set objectives by the org -- the topic is so vast that truly comprehending it will take pages and pages to even begin justifying of bringing someone from lower tiers - though overall expenses on S TIER players could be a good reason (and they are) to start searching fresh talents out there, and regardless of where, but not at the expense of the potential of them to perform equally as explained by the scout. <-- also a good share of trust goes with this.
At the end of the day, those listed and many more players from different regions do have the talent,and are on alert for the opportunity - imho should be given then... However, I am not in charge of making such calls. Yet, I can only raise awareness since I believe we've reached a weird point in EMEA/NA Valorant that is causing more than already evident stagnation... some bizarre time of indecisions with terrible calls from orgs and so on... But one simply need to look no further than how brilliantly Chinese region and Evil Geniuses have grown up, in the recent year or so, to see that the perfect opportunity/possibility of making things happen for any seeking advantage org still do exist --> btw, I don't recall anyone counting any of China/EG players, except for maybe Ethan, as S TIER material, back in the days, and that is, if we were to assess their teams by the VLR/HLTV standards - yet, both China/EG have proved everyone wrong ... The community is wrong not for the first time, and it will remain so <-- I mean, you already know this.
I will add the below just for those who are interested in studying those listed player. The process takes more stages but it could be a good start to begin here.
Stimx:
vs. Suygetsu/FORZE (Later... Forze won the CIS First Strike)
vs. Trexx
Early unlucko for Stimx vs. First Srtike CIS Finalists who later - kicked out Gambit to get to the Finals (after... Forze won First Strike CIS)
vs. solid OBG later winning the small tourney)Anq:
vs. B1sk (performance tab)
vs. Finalists GMT - b01
vs. Finals Winner Dsyre - b01
Rinascimento: Relegation FinalWinteryrook:
b01 vs. sibeastw0w
vs. Derke/Cl0ud from back in the days
again vs. Derke/Cl0ud from back in the days
vs. Trexx - the match was CRACKED asfWatasink/sibeastw0w
EMG SeriesI haven't included any SimonD4rk/Anoxai matches, but anybody who is interested can look them up in the same way as above.
And some STATS in spoiler, of course:
TEAM PLAYER Agent RND KDA ACS ADR FK% FD% ------------------------------------------------------------ MCAST Stimx Jett 993 1.62 259 165 23 17 MCAST Stimx Raze 559 1.63 261 171 19 17 ------------------------------------------------------------ OTPLD Anq Jett 234 1.3 279 184 24 15 <-- Rinascimento: Relegation OTPLD Anq Jett 2058 1.4 244 156 20 16 OTPLD Anq Raze 163 1.7 268 176 15 12 ------------------------------------------------------------ GEEKAY Winteryrook Raze 1655 1.57 267 171 21 17 GEEKAY Winteryrook Sage 1995 1.56 230 151 12 11 GEEKAY Winteryrook KAYO 1986 1.92 229 149 10 8 ------------------------------------------------------------ NASR sibeastw0w Jett 2089 1.47 248 159 21 15 NASR sibeastw0w Raze 1033 1.70 284 186 21 15 ------------------------------------------------------------ TBD SimonD4rk Jett 2598 1.42 247 158 22 16 TBD SimonD4rk Raze 1378 1.60 265 173 21 14 ------------------------------------------------------------ LAND watasink Jett 887 1.35 246 153 18 15 LAND watasink Raze 711 1.43 256 171 18 16 ------------------------------------------------------------ THZ Anoxai Jett 2757 1.4 243 158 22 16 THZ Anoxai Raze 880 1.5 251 173 19 16 ------------------------------------------------------------ St. Petersburg Governor's Cup Valorant - Superfinal 2023 ---------------------------------------------- ------------- MIX Anq Jett 76 .... 275 166 21 26 THZ Anoxai Jett/Raze 254 .... 272 175 29 14 5SMOKES SimonD4rk Jett/Raze 65 .... 267 189 18 15 MCAST watasink Jett/Raze 70 .... 253 175 13 7 MCAST stimx Jett/Raze 70 .... 240 170 24 13Ediit: Fixed Anoxai's stats, in the spoiler, of ACS/ADR - they were mistakenly swapped
Sorry for the late response my friend. Ik all of those 6 players and have also been following them for years. Actually big fan of MiniBoo so really remember rooting for Winteryrook when they were teamates in GMT. Same for SimonD4ark when he was Saiz's teammate.
Ik all 6 of those players, have been keeping up with sibeastwow (Check this thread https://www.vlr.gg/post/2211976/nasr-esports-vs-team-raad-challengers-league-mena-resilience-split-2-gf). And since I have watched most of the MENA league also with Winteryrook. I gotta say they both are really talented players but I do not think they are anywhere close to tier 1. And it is not because they haven't received opportunities, if Suygetsu, Shao etc got them and they didn't was for a reason, I do not believe it was a matter of luck.
Regarding Anq, stimx and Anoxia, haven't kept track of them for a while but what I can see is that they haven't been playing much or on anything relevant. Both were really good in their times but most of their success was quite a while ago.
And about Bisk, he is probably not fully tier 1, but I think he has maintained himself to a higher level than the players you have mentioned and is actually in an amazing shape. I can also pull some insane games and stats from him, from the past and the present
https://www.vlr.gg/63582/kpi-gaming-vs-funplus-phoenix-champions-tour-cis-stage-1-challengers-1-ubqf
https://www.vlr.gg/63585/natus-vincere-vs-kpi-gaming-champions-tour-cis-stage-1-challengers-1-ubf
https://www.vlr.gg/event/stats/1424/challengers-league-spain-rising-split-1
https://www.vlr.gg/event/stats/1568/challengers-league-spain-rising-split-2
Also, I would like to have your opinion on this, since I can tell you know what you're talking about
https://www.vlr.gg/269873/roster-full-russian-tier-2
Mortadelo [#14]Sorry for the late response my friend. Ik all of those 6 players and have also been following them for years. Actually big fan of MiniBoo so really remember rooting for Winteryrook when they were teamates in GMT. Same for SimonD4ark when he was Saiz's teammate.
Ik all 6 of those players, have been keeping up with sibeastwow (Check this thread https://www.vlr.gg/post/2211976/nasr-esports-vs-team-raad-challengers-league-mena-resilience-split-2-gf). And since I have watched most of the MENA league also with Winteryrook. I gotta say they both are really talented players but I do not think they are anywhere close to tier 1. And it is not because they haven't received opportunities, if Suygetsu, Shao etc got them and they didn't was for a reason, I do not believe it was a matter of luck.
Regarding Anq, stimx and Anoxia, haven't kept track of them for a while but what I can see is that they haven't been playing much or on anything relevant. Both were really good in their times but most of their success was quite a while ago.
And about Bisk, he is probably not fully tier 1, but I think he has maintained himself to a higher level than the players you have mentioned and is actually in an amazing shape. I can also pull some insane games and stats from him, from the past and the present
https://www.vlr.gg/63582/kpi-gaming-vs-funplus-phoenix-champions-tour-cis-stage-1-challengers-1-ubqf
https://www.vlr.gg/63585/natus-vincere-vs-kpi-gaming-champions-tour-cis-stage-1-challengers-1-ubf
https://www.vlr.gg/event/stats/1424/challengers-league-spain-rising-split-1
https://www.vlr.gg/event/stats/1568/challengers-league-spain-rising-split-2Also, I would like to have your opinion on this, since I can tell you know what you're talking about
https://www.vlr.gg/269873/roster-full-russian-tier-2
https://www.vlr.gg/247950/geekay-esports-vs-team-raad-emg-series-middle-east-and-north-africa-pro-levant-and-na-playoff i think winteryrook could easily be s tier player he was wanted by navi as a 6th man earlier this year i think.... he was toying with RAAD in this series playing 5 different agents what makes him good in my opinion is his versatility
Mortadelo [#14]Sorry for the late response my friend. Ik all of those 6 players and have also been following them for years. Actually big fan of MiniBoo so really remember rooting for Winteryrook when they were teamates in GMT. Same for SimonD4ark when he was Saiz's teammate.
Ik all 6 of those players, have been keeping up with sibeastwow (Check this thread https://www.vlr.gg/post/2211976/nasr-esports-vs-team-raad-challengers-league-mena-resilience-split-2-gf). And since I have watched most of the MENA league also with Winteryrook. I gotta say they both are really talented players but I do not think they are anywhere close to tier 1. And it is not because they haven't received opportunities, if Suygetsu, Shao etc got them and they didn't was for a reason, I do not believe it was a matter of luck.
Regarding Anq, stimx and Anoxia, haven't kept track of them for a while but what I can see is that they haven't been playing much or on anything relevant. Both were really good in their times but most of their success was quite a while ago.
And about Bisk, he is probably not fully tier 1, but I think he has maintained himself to a higher level than the players you have mentioned and is actually in an amazing shape. I can also pull some insane games and stats from him, from the past and the present
https://www.vlr.gg/63582/kpi-gaming-vs-funplus-phoenix-champions-tour-cis-stage-1-challengers-1-ubqf
https://www.vlr.gg/63585/natus-vincere-vs-kpi-gaming-champions-tour-cis-stage-1-challengers-1-ubf
https://www.vlr.gg/event/stats/1424/challengers-league-spain-rising-split-1
https://www.vlr.gg/event/stats/1568/challengers-league-spain-rising-split-2Also, I would like to have your opinion on this, since I can tell you know what you're talking about
https://www.vlr.gg/269873/roster-full-russian-tier-2
No worries, bro - all good 🍻
Well, by now, it's more than enough that we've introduced these players into the conversation. Frankly, arriving at a definite conclusion of their present condition, let alone their full potential, isn't a simple task --> the level of pro play has moved up quite evidently but who knows 😉 ... Also, I can see the point regarding other factors that might have influenced their stagnation, as potential scenarios have been unfolding at the time, especially during the closure of CIS. Hopefully, Chinese orgs would pick some of them up and get going.
Concerning B1sk, for sure, he stands out as an excellent player and is presently part of KPI with Insider/Smart7 (as a coach) <-- also a very skilled player IMHO. I omitted mentioning B1sk as him and Purp0 are already quite known around. Though that disband of Team Singularity, seemed to cause quite a stress, I'd say. The subsequent transition to the KPI phase appeared to have some unsettled things, considering he was performing exceptionally well during his peak at SNG <-- I mean, I am just assuming here and maybe, seeing things that might not be there.
In Shao's case, the transition was rather preferable into pros (I'd assume), as he'd already reached some recognition in his previous Warface... but the scene was still in pre-pro phase back then, and PartyParrots were more than a good start especially having such a knowledgeable person like Ange1 at his reach. Also, coaches and IGLs often play a role in facilitating transitions for new players, acting as performance mentors in the development. Though, the process of adapting a new game was never a challange (I guess) for highly skilled player like Shao, so things went rather natural and smooth for him, and in a good pair of hands.
Suygetsu's situation, on the other hand - a bit different, highlighting his commitment and self-discipline within org. He had to go through a process of playing for FORZE and grow from there with a coach at the time, Pnuh, who would struck anyone as someone who doesn't tolerate any BullShit <-- a quality I appreciate, ngl. Pnuh is also involved in real-life - ice hockey coaching and a former player. Given Suygetsu's innate talent, the conditions were there to his growth, Notably, his performance in the final against SNG, where he faced off against a peak Trexx, was truly remarkable. This match was an excellent opportunity to propel his career forward, and he rightfully deserved it. It's worth mentioning that SNG had previously eliminated Enghh's Gambit in the semi-finals a day earlier in a spectacular match that showcased Trexx's incredible skills from all directions - these were some truly intense matches.
Thanks, and aye, I'll leave my take in that thread 🍻
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