Wasn't optic last year for na similar to fnatic this year? Guard lost both matches. Xset lost both matches. I didn't see any of you posting about being 1team and all that?
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NA fans cope
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StutterSt3p [#3]Historically EMEA has always been better, but as of now even with fnatic winning NA is better and it's not close. Both NA teams were in groups and made top 4 and the EMEA 1 seed won just 1 game.
what matters at the end is who wins the tournament,isnt that the ultimate goal of these competitions
StutterSt3p [#3]Historically EMEA has always been better, but as of now even with fnatic winning NA is better and it's not close. Both NA teams were in groups and made top 4 and the EMEA 1 seed won just 1 game.
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asdfgh [#2]lol people just love to hate on emea here for some reason,when NA and BR were 1 team regions there wasnt even close to this level of coping,but when its emea everyone focuses on that and not on how strong fnatic is lol
In Champs Na proved they weren't a 1 team region no?
Xset beat fnatic and almost beat fpx
Master_oGgway [#6]In Champs Na proved they weren't a 1 team region no?
Xset beat fnatic and almost beat fpx
yeah in 1 tournament lol,xset was the first good non 1st seed NA team since berlin 2021,before that they bombed out of copehagen,guard bombed out of reykjavik,all NA teams flopped in champs
asdfgh [#4]what matters at the end is who wins the tournament,isnt that the ultimate goal of these competitions
Not if we're trying to collectively rate how good a region is as a whole it's not. A region has more than just one team and NA is just a deeper region than EMEA. Like fair enough an EMEA team won but the other 3 teams really didn't get close at all., whereas both NA teams were decently close despite having to play more games.
dandann [#9]exactly bro na fans keeps on pushing these 1 team region narratives when they themselves for the past years were a 1 team region while EU had Fnatic and FPX before. without optic, na is not a threat all
we're not in those years anymore though
StutterSt3p [#8]Not if we're trying to collectively rate how good a region is as a whole it's not. A region has more than just one team and NA is just a deeper region than EMEA. Like fair enough an EMEA team won but the other 3 teams really didn't get close at all., whereas both NA teams were decently close despite having to play more games.
yeah emea teams underperformed this event,but emea still has the strongest team in the world,but that doesnt mean anything or set any trend lol,its just 1 event,NA was the biggest 1 team region for like 3 events in a row before champs where xset managed to do a decent run, the ultimate measurement of a regions success is still trophies,sure NA performed way better as a region this event but it really doesnt mean anything in the grand scheme,there will be tourneys where NA is weaker and eu stronger too,but it doesnt matter if the other region still has a better team overall
asdfgh [#11]yeah emea teams underperformed this event,but emea still has the strongest team in the world,but that doesnt mean anything or set any trend lol,its just 1 event,NA was the biggest 1 team region for like 3 events in a row before champs where xset managed to do a decent run, the ultimate measurement of a regions success is still trophies,sure NA performed way better as a region this event but it really doesnt mean anything in the grand scheme,there will be tourneys where NA is weaker and eu stronger too,but it doesnt matter if the other region still has a better team overall
The problem with that argument is that there's a world where a region could place 2, 3, 4 but if they don't win they aren't the best region. It doesn't make sense for evaluating how good teams from a given region are.
StutterSt3p [#12]The problem with that argument is that there's a world where a region could place 2, 3, 4 but if they don't win they aren't the best region. It doesn't make sense for evaluating how good teams from a given region are.
if you can only place 2,3 or 4 you cant be the best region,the best region is the region with the best team,regions can perform weaker or stronger than each other every tourney,but they are all trying to win the tourney,if we went by top4 placements in 2022 eu would still top NA in that,but because NA had optic they were considered the better region in 2022
asdfgh [#13]if you can only place 2,3 or 4 you cant be the best region,the best region is the region with the best team,regions can perform weaker or stronger than each other every tourney,but they are all trying to win the tourney,if we went by top4 placements in 2022 eu would still top NA in that,but because NA had optic they were considered the better region in 2022
So if PRX win champions are MY/SG the best region? Or like if they won 2 or 3 tournaments, however many wins you need. This logic is so flawed it's not even funny.
StutterSt3p [#14]So if PRX win champions are MY/SG the best region? Or like if they won 2 or 3 tournaments, however many wins you need. This logic is so flawed it's not even funny.
its only flawed because you cant use common sense, with how apac has performed even winning champions wouldn't make them the best region in the world lol,its between eu and Americas only apac is miles behind already,its pretty clear that apac is by far the weakest region so there isnt any logical narrative to support that they can stay at that level unlike eu and americas performances,if you wanna talk about the best region overall you gotta talk about all the events not just cherry pick the one where you did better
asdfgh [#7]yeah in 1 tournament lol,xset was the first good non 1st seed NA team since berlin 2021,before that they bombed out of copehagen,guard bombed out of reykjavik,all NA teams flopped in champs
Wdym flopped?
It's unfair to compare it to the past when EMEA got an extra spot at every event, and Optic took on The Guard and XSET round 1 of both tourneys before going to top 3.
And I'd like to clarify, I don't really think EMEA is a "One Team Region" I just think that - since the beginning - that they were the region with the least depth. The only surprises from the region was Navi and Koi underperforming since I expected fut to be top 4 from LOCK//IN. In Pacific, a ton of their lower teams like GE, Talon, and RRQ have shown great performances at random times, like any could shape into a threat. AM had C9 and EG going insane, and Furia showing a ton of promise.
asdfgh [#15]its only flawed because you cant use common sense, with how apac has performed even winning champions wouldn't make them the best region in the world lol,its between eu and Americas only apac is miles behind already,its pretty clear that apac is by far the weakest region so there isnt any logical narrative to support that they can stay at that level unlike eu and americas performances,if you wanna talk about the best region overall you gotta talk about all the events not just cherry pick the one where you did better
That proves my point though, because you have to factor in the other teams to make that case. If you're just going off of the region that wins is the best, it's always going to be judging a region off of one team, and thus actual one-team regions like MY/SG becomes the best region just by winning. You're the one who can't use common sense lmao.
StutterSt3p [#19]That proves my point though, because you have to factor in the other teams to make that case. If you're just going off of the region that wins is the best, it's always going to be judging a region off of one team, and thus actual one-team regions like MY/SG becomes the best region just by winning. You're the one who can't use common sense lmao.
yeah and if you factor in all the teams emea is still the strongest im pretty sure,you dont know how emea will perform in champs so its a useless statement saying "NA is a way deeper region" based on 1 event,if we look at trophy wins and how teams overall rank in lans EMEA is still better, if you wanna say that NA is a deeper region based on this Tokyo tournament sure, but overall it is not,im talking about regions overall not just based on 2023 and now emea has produced 2 super teams in gambit and fnatic and 2 less dominant winners in acend and fpx,so idk how u can argue that overall NA is a deeper region when you have only had 3 teams in finals overall and 2 contenders/winners with sen being kinda irrelevant
asdfgh [#20]yeah and if you factor in all the teams emea is still the strongest im pretty sure,you dont know how emea will perform in champs so its a useless statement saying "NA is a way deeper region" based on 1 event,if we look at trophy wins and how teams overall rank in lans EMEA is still better, if you wanna say that NA is a deeper region based on this Tokyo tournament sure, but overall it is not,im talking about regions overall not just based on 2023 and now emea has produced 2 super teams in gambit and fnatic and 2 less dominant winners in acend and fpx,so idk how u can argue that overall NA is a deeper region when you have only had 3 teams in finals overall and 2 contenders/winners with sen being kinda irrelevant
First of all, I'm talking about the present because I literally said "Historically EMEA has always been better" but as of now, NA just feels deeper. C9 barely missed on Masters and Sen was doing roster changes the whole of the season. There's also a ton of t1 talent in t2 right now because of franchising, more so than EMEA because their talent is more spread out since they have 10 slots to NAs 5. Like can you really say with confidence that NAVI or FUT would beat C9 or Sen (w/ the current 5)? Or even C9 vs liquid, because C9 was literally going crazy in Americas.
StutterSt3p [#21]First of all, I'm talking about the present because I literally said "Historically EMEA has always been better" but as of now, NA just feels deeper. C9 barely missed on Masters and Sen was doing roster changes the whole of the season. There's also a ton of t1 talent in t2 right now because of franchising, more so than EMEA because their talent is more spread out since they have 10 slots to NAs 5. Like can you really say with confidence that NAVI or FUT would beat C9 or Sen (w/ the current 5)? Or even C9 vs liquid, because C9 was literally going crazy in Americas.
sure if we talk about the present NA is deeper 100%,but that has to do partly with how emea is set up as u said,franchising honestly nerfed emea so hard having these completely incompetent teams like heretics,kc,bbl etc play at the highest level and not even give a fuck about making a good roster
asdfgh [#22]sure if we talk about the present NA is deeper 100%,but that has to do partly with how emea is set up as u said,franchising honestly nerfed emea so hard having these completely incompetent teams like heretics,kc,bbl etc play at the highest level and not even give a fuck about making a good roster
That's just my point though that we aren't in the optic era anymore, and things have shifted some, that's really it tbh lol.
asdfgh [#17]bombed out and played way worse than expected
But didn't na teams play way better? Because fpx(best emea team at that time) was on the same level as xset and fpx were Copenhagen winner. Optic might have played worse in finals but it was still a really close match up
Master_oGgway [#24]But didn't na teams play way better? Because fpx(best emea team at that time) was on the same level as xset and fpx were Copenhagen winner. Optic might have played worse in finals but it was still a really close match up
i literally said xset was the first good 2nd seed from NA since berlin because they first played horribly in copenhagen,in champs xset did well,but fpx still ranked higher so apart from optic how did NA teams play better,tbh fpx should have got top 3 in champs too but they somehow choked 11-8 and 9-3 leads against drx
asdfgh [#25]i literally said xset was the first good 2nd seed from NA since berlin because they first played horribly in copenhagen,in champs xset did well,but fpx still ranked higher so apart from optic how did NA teams play better,tbh fpx should have got top 3 in champs too but they somehow choked 11-8 and 9-3 leads against drx
You said "All NA teams flopped in champs"
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