Does riot care about tier 2?
Not in like how dare they not do more for tier 2 but more like does it actual create profit for them to pursue it?
I just can't think of a single reason riot would care about tier 2 other then for pr to stop the val fanbase being annoyed about it
Which will never be worth the amount of money it costs
I think NA league tier 2 collapsing shows riots attitude on tier 2 now, riot has realised that tier 2 is a waste of time
LCS Academy gets literally NO viewership, even LCS totally fell off + no talent is getting promoted from there because most of the rosters are imports and washed vets + Low level MOBAs are objectively not enjoyable to watch
NA T2 in Valorant gets viewership AND Riot isn't putting on the event, Knights are
Apples to oranges
Riot 100% doesn't care.
One of the coolest orgs in brazilian T2 announced just yesterday that they're dropping all valorant activities. (ODDIK, for those who are wondering)
And I can't even blame them (ODDIK). The schedule for T2 just sucks, they have no financial help while the tournaments are LAN, there's no promo, no new talents being revealed...
T3 is cooler to watch than T2, at least in Brazil, and this saddens me
babysasuke [#2]LCS Academy gets literally NO viewership, even LCS totally fell off + no talent is getting promoted from there because most of the rosters are imports and washed vets + Low level MOBAs are objectively not enjoyable to watch
NA T2 in Valorant gets viewership AND Riot isn't putting on the event, Knights are
Apples to oranges
If it's working as advertising who is watching NA tier 2 but not tier 1 already? There isn't a point in spending money on tier 2 when the market is already captured in tier 1
edit: Im retarded and don't know t1 from t2 lcs
also the viewership between tier 2 and 1 isn't even close, apart from when mxm play the peak was 55k views and thats the most popular of any challenger regions,
if they keep NA tier 2 they have to have challenger leagues for every region most of which have significantly less views
valorant_player [#4]Riot gives many spots to EMEA when the region has only 1 truly competitive team, so I'd say they do
are you retarded? Please explain how that has literally anything to do with what the topic is?
It isn't always about profit...bcuz in the long run that's what makes their game have a more life. T2 is the backbone of any region. If that isnt strong then the main league wont be strong as well down a few years.
Just look at your own league for example....the oce players like tixx, maple , rDeew all played in a competitive challengers in APAC last year, they got recognition and bcuz of that some got chances in other leagues now.
Do you think that will happen to players frm this year in oce?
JiangLi [#7]It isn't always about profit...bcuz in the long run that's what makes their game have a more life. T2 is the backbone of any region. If that isnt strong then the main league wont be strong as well down a few years.
Just look at your own league for example....the oce players like tixx, maple , rDeew all played in a competitive challengers in APAC last year, they got recognition and bcuz of that some got chances in other leagues now.
Do you think that will happen to players frm this year in oce?
Does it matter if the tier 1 isn't as good as they would have been in an alternative universe with tier 2?
Regardless of tier 2, tier 1 will still be the top players in the world playing highest level of valorant, most people that watch tier 1 don't even care about tier 2.
I'm not saying tier 2 support is bad, obviously I think it's a good thing but from riots perspective it adds nothing to the product, there will always be people watching tier 1 even if their is no tier 2
babysasuke [#2]LCS Academy gets literally NO viewership, even LCS totally fell off + no talent is getting promoted from there because most of the rosters are imports and washed vets + Low level MOBAs are objectively not enjoyable to watch
NA T2 in Valorant gets viewership AND Riot isn't putting on the event, Knights are
Apples to oranges
I think the orgs completely butchered the LCS mainly. They took on high paid washed players from other region and old vets instead of more American players for quick results.
This rendered the LCS academy useless bcuz and people started to lose confidence in their own league. The reason it became low level bcuz there isn't any point of lets say a 16yo Americas kid in school to grind the game bcuz he knows he aint making it.
Faraday [#5]If it's working as advertising who is watching NA tier 2 but not tier 1 already? There isn't a point in spending money on tier 2 when the market is already captured in tier 1
edit: Im retarded and don't know t1 from t2 lcs
also the viewership between tier 2 and 1 isn't even close, apart from when mxm play the peak was 55k views and thats the most popular of any challenger regions,
if they keep NA tier 2 they have to have challenger leagues for every region most of which have significantly less views
Why are you comparing Tier 1 NA LoL to T2 NA Valorant?
Also, how much do you think Riot spends to broadcast the event? People aren't crying about esports making money from the developer point of view. Riot has the money to spend on this, and it keeps people playing the ACTUAL game and they bank on micro-transactions.
Also:
If it's working as advertising who is watching NA tier 2 but not tier 1 already? There isn't a point in spending money on tier 2 when the market is already captured in tier 1
if they keep NA tier 2 they have to have challenger leagues for every region most of which have significantly less views
Objectively false. There's a lot of routes they could take here, but if a region cannot put together a real circuit (look at the EMEA VRLs that are hemorrhaging), they could either start cutting series or merging them together to consolidate talent and views.
So to answer your question, does Riot really CARE about Tier 2 Valorant? Probably not.
But to be honest, they probably don't care all that much about Valorant esports at all. It's all a means to keep people playing the regular game and spending money. If they had a playerbase of 1 billion people playing swiftplay all day and buying skins and the whole esports scene died, I'm sure they wouldn't be upset about it.
babysasuke [#10]Why are you comparing Tier 1 NA LoL to T2 NA Valorant?
Also, how much do you think Riot spends to broadcast the event? People aren't crying about esports making money from the developer point of view. Riot has the money to spend on this, and it keeps people playing the ACTUAL game and they bank on micro-transactions.
Also:
If it's working as advertising who is watching NA tier 2 but not tier 1 already? There isn't a point in spending money on tier 2 when the market is already captured in tier 1
- Personally, I watch more T2 NA than T1 Americas, I just like it better.
- It provides a way to play the game professionally from the region without having to be a world caliber player. If there were only 25 player spots for North America, there would be no new players coming into the scene, unless you wanted to stream and pray you get picked up from ranked.
- They are making adrev and sponsorship deals based on how many views they get, assuming people care, Riot (or Knights) should be able to leverage it to make money
if they keep NA tier 2 they have to have challenger leagues for every region most of which have significantly less views
Objectively false. There's a lot of routes they could take here, but if a region cannot put together a real circuit (look at the EMEA VRLs that are hemorrhaging), they could either start cutting series or merging them together to consolidate talent and views.
So to answer your question, does Riot really CARE about Tier 2 Valorant? Probably not.
But to be honest, they probably don't care all that much about Valorant esports at all. It's all a means to keep people playing the regular game and spending money. If they had a playerbase of 1 billion people playing swiftplay all day and buying skins and the whole esports scene died, I'm sure they wouldn't be upset about it.
So you answer your question, does Riot really CARE about Tier 2 Valorant? Probably not.
So we don't disagree then?
But to be honest, they probably don't care all that much about Valorant esports at all.
tier 1 must directly or indirectly make them profit otherwise they wouldn't put so much into it, tier 2 seems clear they don't think it will increase profits and are only keeping it to keep fans happy
Faraday [#11]So you answer your question, does Riot really CARE about Tier 2 Valorant? Probably not.
So we don't disagree then?
But to be honest, they probably don't care all that much about Valorant esports at all.
tier 1 must directly or indirectly make them profit otherwise they wouldn't put so much into it, tier 2 seems clear they don't think it will increase profits and are only keeping it to keep fans happy
Engagement with the game in general is the indirect profit incentive.
And you keep saying "so much into it".
What is Riot really doing for T2 Valorant? Seems like free engagement to me. They're not even producing the events, the licensed out the rights to 3rd parties.
So we don't disagree then?
I think they care about T1 as much as T2, just a means to keep people interested in the game.
I doubt John Tencent cares who wins Champions or Worlds.
Faraday [#8]Does it matter if the tier 1 isn't as good as they would have been in an alternative universe with tier 2?
Regardless of tier 2, tier 1 will still be the top players in the world playing highest level of valorant, most people that watch tier 1 don't even care about tier 2.
I'm not saying tier 2 support is bad, obviously I think it's a good thing but from riots perspective it adds nothing to the product, there will always be people watching tier 1 even if their is no tier 2
frm RIOT's perspective it does add value bcuz some regions start to fall behind as time goes by.
First of all i think that every region has a different case for T2 interest among viewers. I can guarantee you that a regional match between let's say BOOM of Indonesia and NAOS of PH or RGE from India will be wayy more hype than any regular season game from the Pacific league.
You are wrong to think that people dont care about T2, infact people in APAC are more interested to see cross-regional competitions. Indo and Vietnam literally got their highest ever viewership in a SEA games tournament btw.
There are many promising players who emerge but they will be gone soon bcuz only so many can get chance to the main league. This in turn makes the game less interesting and slowly fades in popularity
JiangLi [#14]frm RIOT's perspective it does add value bcuz some regions start to fall behind as time goes by.
First of all i think that every region has a different case for T2 interest among viewers. I can guarantee you that a regional match between let's say BOOM of Indonesia and NAOS of PH or RGE from India will be wayy more hype than any regular season game from the Pacific league.
You are wrong to think that people dont care about T2, infact people in APAC are more interested to see cross-regional competitions. Indo and Vietnam literally got their highest ever viewership in a SEA games tournament btw.
There are many promising players who emerge but they will be gone soon bcuz only so many can get chance to the main league. This in turn makes the game less interesting and slowly fades in popularity
majority of people who watch tier 2 apac already watch tier 1, if esports is an advertisement for the game, what is the point of advertising to tier 2 viewers that already watch tier 1 anyway, your spending money on an already tapped market
brobeans [#13]t2 is the backbone of t1 and t1 is the backbone of maintaining a video game
if t2 didn't exist would t1 still exist? Yes
So why does riot care?
Faraday [#15]majority of people who watch tier 2 apac already watch tier 1, if esports is an advertisement for the game, what is the point of advertising to tier 2 viewers that already watch tier 1 anyway, your spending money on an already tapped market
??? What is this logic. If tier 2 has consumers then it won't be shut down. It doesn't matter if its the same market.
y'all are waffling c9 had to drop 2 players because of finances earlier this year, stop crying about riot and let them cook. They can't just give money to people for no reason they have to make money as a company. Fans are gonna cry because a few random tier 2 teams are struggling. In NA league the tier 2 scene is shit but in APAC where theres actual infrastructure OW LOL and Dota tier 2 scenes are amazing with lots of talent and development, Riot knows that market = everything and there first has to be a market.
Slayeroffuss [#17]??? What is this logic. If tier 2 has consumers then it won't be shut down. It doesn't matter if its the same market.
esports doesn't make profit, it exists to advertise the main game
No point advertising to those already being advertised to
cboomer [#19]y'all are waffling c9 had to drop 2 players because of finances earlier this year, stop crying about riot and let them cook. They can't just give money to people for no reason they have to make money as a company. Fans are gonna cry because a few random tier 2 teams are struggling. In NA league the tier 2 scene is shit but in APAC where theres actual infrastructure OW LOL and Dota tier 2 scenes are amazing with lots of talent and development, Riot knows that market = everything and there first has to be a market.
Who is blud arguing with?
I'm asking if there actually is a profit motive for tier 2's existence other then appeasing fans
Faraday [#21]Who is blud arguing with?
I'm asking if there actually is a profit motive for tier 2's existence other then appeasing fans
there's nothing wrong with the val scene though, tier 2 serves as a feeder for tier 1. Esports does profit at least for riot. The goal for any scene in a certain region would be for infrastructure to support tier 2 to make it profitable, like it is in Korea with PC bangs. It just takes time and you're talking about an esports scene thats 3 years old
cboomer [#19]y'all are waffling c9 had to drop 2 players because of finances earlier this year, stop crying about riot and let them cook. They can't just give money to people for no reason they have to make money as a company. Fans are gonna cry because a few random tier 2 teams are struggling. In NA league the tier 2 scene is shit but in APAC where theres actual infrastructure OW LOL and Dota tier 2 scenes are amazing with lots of talent and development, Riot knows that market = everything and there first has to be a market.
"finances" YEP
TM06Nick [#23]"finances" YEP
wym they actually did drop yay and vanity primarily because of money, obviously if I was them I would've never signed them because of fit issues and roles but reality is C9 have been in a bad spot money wise and yay was making a lot of money despite not doing a lot of content revenue
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