I AM NOT SHITTING ON EMEA I AM TRYING TO HAVE PURPOSEFUL DISCUSSION.
It feels like emea rarely tries to innovate in maps except for like fut and navi. Even the fnatic lotus comp feels archaic do we know why its like this or is it just different meta due to different playstyles.
Maybe americas is just spoiled because of EG Loud and c9 making different comps all the time.
Chikenwarrior23 [#3]im pretty sure americas is the region know for copying each other comps and using it over and over again
Innovating and finding a meta comp and forcing other teams to switch because it’s objectively better **
Chikenwarrior23 [#3]im pretty sure americas is the region know for copying each other comps and using it over and over again
yeah thats not copying comps thats setting a meta bruh.
In what way? Pearl is like the only map where you can make that argument. Just because EMEA teams dont play Harbor as much doesnt mean they are behind in terms of comps. Example Fnatic owned Icebox by playing the most basic comp ever. Also Americas teams always copy LOUD while EMEA teams dont copy Fnatic as much.
Chikenwarrior23 [#3]im pretty sure americas is the region know for copying each other comps and using it over and over again
Nah NA has always been ahead in every meta
Cresp [#6]yeah thats not copying comps thats setting a meta bruh.
was the thread not about emea not innovating. how is americas innovating if they play the same comps most of the time.
emea is the region that tries different stuff and has diferent comps, thats innovating
iamtheh [#8]I kinda feel indifferent about americas comps tbh. The one thing I like about EMEA is teams get experimental with their comps.
Idk eg always tries crazy comps, c9 created the neon skye comp on lotus, loud has this semi/optic fpx comp on fracture, and chamber on bind, furia tried the chamber comp on split. So many different things they have tried over the season.
patuj [#9]In what way? Pearl is like the only map where you can make that argument. Just because EMEA teams dont play Harbor as much doesnt mean they are behind in terms of comps. Example Fnatic owned Icebox by playing the most basic comp ever. Also Americas teams always copy LOUD while EMEA teams dont copy Fnatic as much.
Astra, chamber and now double controller. EU has always taken a lot of time to adapt to them sadly.
Edit: wait fuck I misread the original post nvm
Cresp [#12]Idk eg always tries crazy comps, c9 created the neon skye comp on lotus, loud has this semi/optic fpx comp on fracture, and chamber on bind, furia tried the chamber comp on split. So many different things they have tried over the season.
Thats true I can get behind that. Ig Americas teams like using the harbor viper meta more than EMEA lol. We'll see how they perform against each other in Tokyo.
6vine [#10]Nah NA has always been ahead in every meta
right, i forgot you guys are the best with no objections, no matter what happend or is happening, AMERICA IS THE BEST BABY WOOOO
patuj [#9]In what way? Pearl is like the only map where you can make that argument. Just because EMEA teams dont play Harbor as much doesnt mean they are behind in terms of comps. Example Fnatic owned Icebox by playing the most basic comp ever. Also Americas teams always copy LOUD while EMEA teams dont copy Fnatic as much.
I agree I dont think it has to do with whos better or anything, if anything it has to do with Na being more around minmaxing their game plan on maps and allat. Im not speaking on harbor i dont think thats the thing. They dont like skye as much and like fade a lot for some reason.
Chikenwarrior23 [#15]right, i forgot you guys are the best with no objections, no matter what happend or is happening, AMERICA IS THE BEST BABY WOOOO
I'm an EU fan bro what are you waffling about 💀
Chikenwarrior23 [#11]was the thread not about emea not innovating. how is americas innovating if they play the same comps most of the time.
emea is the region that tries different stuff and has diferent comps, thats innovating
When I mean new stuff I mean comps with completely new utility in mind not just a cypher over a kj. That has more to do with players themselves wanting to play cypher over kj.
6vine [#17]I'm an EU fan bro what are you waffling about 💀
mb you had nrg flag and you were doing the natural american behavior (downplaying EMEA at everychance they get)
Ailed [#4]Innovating and finding a meta comp and forcing other teams to switch because it’s objectively better **
Loud was the only American team to define a meta comps.
Chikenwarrior23 [#19]mb you had nrg flag and you were doing the natural american behavior (downplaying EMEA at everychance they get)
I support nrg because of Keith 🐐
6vine [#13]Astra, chamber and now double controller. EU has always taken a lot of time to adapt to them sadly.
Edit: wait fuck I misread the original post nvm
EMEA wasn't behind on Chamber meta IIRC, only OpTic was running it like crazy before others catched up. And as I said double controller (assuming you mean Harbor/Viper) isn't proven meta outside of like Pearl. That's like saying Americas is behind on Lotus meta because they don't play Fade as much.
Cresp [#18]When I mean new stuff I mean comps with completely new utility in mind not just a cypher over a kj. That has more to do with players themselves wanting to play cypher over kj.
if you count the number of mirror comps in both regions, emea is going to have way less than NA, and no its not just cypher over kj, the fact you are even considering that emea has less comp innovation is a little wierd and kinda makes me wonder how much valorant from both regions you watch, just watch pearl and split on AMERICAS
6vine [#13]Astra, chamber and now double controller. EU has always taken a lot of time to adapt to them sadly.
Edit: wait fuck I misread the original post nvm
EMEA plays double controller, they just dont play harbor
xD1LL4N [#20]Loud was the only American team to define a meta comps.
NRG made good bind comp
EG made good fracture comp
Yah the only true meta comps that have been made are louds on split and pearl but that is still Americas, still my point.
Also that is just this season, optic made many variations of chamber comp last season that were meta.
What new meta comps has EMEA produced? Until EG (The objectively most antistrat centered team) picks up a comp from an EMEA team I’m not convinced that EMEA has produced anything of value. When they pick up a comp that’s when you know it’s truly meta
fnatic are the meta definers. everyone takes inspiration from their comps and then makes their owns. so you cant say they are boring etc etc, because they make these new comps on new maps and dont change until they need to(until they lose). harbor viper is something which fnatic and emea didnt adopt. and it definitely isnt like the most broken like chamber meta, you can use harbor viper if you want , and you can avoid it if you dont want. if you think having stability and not changing comps often is being behind in meta, then you are thinking about it the wrong way. what navi and prx do is not innovation, thats straight up trolling.
Ailed [#25]NRG made good bind comp
EG made good fracture compYah the only true meta comps that have been made are louds on split and pearl but that is still Americas, still my point.
Also that is just this season, optic made many variations of chamber comp last season that were meta.
What new meta comps has EMEA produced? Until EG (The objectively most antistrat centered team) picks up a comp from an EMEA team I’m not convinced that EMEA has produced anything of value. When they pick up a comp that’s when you know it’s truly meta
what bind comp did nrg make?
Ailed [#25]NRG made good bind comp
EG made good fracture compYah the only true meta comps that have been made are louds on split and pearl but that is still Americas, still my point.
Also that is just this season, optic made many variations of chamber comp last season that were meta.
What new meta comps has EMEA produced? Until EG (The objectively most antistrat centered team) picks up a comp from an EMEA team I’m not convinced that EMEA has produced anything of value. When they pick up a comp that’s when you know it’s truly meta
NA is so ignorant. just cuz others are not copying EMEA, doesnt mean what they play in EMEA isnt meta. we dont have to create a harbor viper comp for every fkn map just for the sake of innovation
patuj [#22]EMEA wasn't behind on Chamber meta IIRC, only OpTic was running it like crazy before others catched up. And as I said double controller (assuming you mean Harbor/Viper) isn't proven meta outside of like Pearl. That's like saying Americas is behind on Lotus meta because they don't play Fade as much.
Agree with the double controller stuff but EMEA didn't use chamber much in stage 1. NA challengers had a pick rate of 47% while EU had a pick rate of 22%
Ailed [#28]Harbor viper sage raze skye
Where tf is KJ in their bind comp ?
plus thats LOUD meta comp.
yoboikingkong [#29]NA is so ignorant. just cuz others are not copying EMEA, doesnt mean what they play in EMEA isnt meta. we dont have to create a harbor viper comp for every fkn map just for the sake of innovation
Meta comps are comps that make other teams switch to them because they cannot find anything better. This has not happened in Emea. This is not a hard concept to understand. The existence of so many different comps in Emea should make you realize that there’s nothing meta being played.
xD1LL4N [#31]Where tf is KJ in their bind comp ?
plus thats LOUD meta comp.
Meant sage mb. Also what are you talking about loud played bind for the first time yesterday and played chamber. Just because there is harbor viper doesn’t make it louds comp
Ailed [#32]Meta comps are comps that make other teams switch to them because they cannot find anything better. This has not happened in Emea. This is not a hard concept to understand. The existence of so many different comps in Emea should make you realize that there’s nothing meta being played.
Loud was the only team to make a meta comp of recent times.
Everyone used to copy Ascend bind comp back in the day but you being american, you're so self centered you wouldn't even know that
Ailed [#33]Meant sage mb. Also what are you talking about loud played bind for the first time yesterday and played chamber. Just because there is harbor viper doesn’t make it louds comp
Loud literally popularised the Harbor, viper skye comps in a time skye wasn't picked so yeah they do kinda claim it
xD1LL4N [#34]Loud was the only team to make a meta comp of recent times.
Everyone used to copy Ascend bind comp back in the day but you being american, you're so self centered you wouldn't even know that
I do know that, 100t played it and lose to NRG on new comp. Also stop being weird we are having a rational conversation
Also I am talking for Americas. Not na
if you are talking about lotus , even in the starting weeks giants started testing on loyus with gekko and fut also play gekko at Haven. Plus FUT played neon at lock in on louts which c9 copied later. Ascent is like the map where you can try anything but still won't beat that shit meta. Split is questionable as many teams choose double duelist and some don't.
xD1LL4N [#35]Loud literally popularised the Harbor, viper skye comps in a time skye wasn't picked so yeah they do kinda claim it
Optic popularized chamber so liquids split comp is optics. Makes a lot of sense
Cresp [#12]Idk eg always tries crazy comps, c9 created the neon skye comp on lotus, loud has this semi/optic fpx comp on fracture, and chamber on bind, furia tried the chamber comp on split. So many different things they have tried over the season.
I'm pretty sure Liquid did the lotus comp first with kayo instead of kj
Ailed [#38]Optic popularized chamber so liquids split comp is optics. Makes a lot of sense
just bc yay was the best chamber doesn't mean they popularized it, the audacity is unreal
xD1LL4N [#40]just bc yay was the best chamber doesn't mean they popularized it, the audacity is unreal
It is an objective fact that optic defined the chamber meta i am going to stop arguing with you now
Chikenwarrior23 [#23]if you count the number of mirror comps in both regions, emea is going to have way less than NA, and no its not just cypher over kj, the fact you are even considering that emea has less comp innovation is a little wierd and kinda makes me wonder how much valorant from both regions you watch, just watch pearl and split on AMERICAS
You definitely used to see teams try new things moreso than emea in americas in the early season. Furia ran chamber on split, double flash on pearl. 100t tried single controller on lotus, viper over kj on ascent. Sen tried the challengers comp over viper harbor. We saw a lot of different split comps before double duelist set. Loud tried a chamber on bind, double controller neon on fracture. EG tried gekko harbor astra on pearl, sova on fracture. C9 tried pheonix sage astra on pearl, they tried breach skye on ascent and viper skye on ascent too. But yeah theres no attempt at innovation in americas.
Ailed [#36]I do know that, 100t played it and lose to NRG on new comp. Also stop being weird we are having a rational conversation
Also I am talking for Americas. Not na
100T would lose to Liquid's Omen so would that make Omen meta on Bind?
Ailed [#42]It is an objective fact that optic defined the chamber meta i am going to stop arguing with you now
Yes, you are delusional and im wasting my time replying
patuj [#44]100T would lose to Liquid's Omen so would that make Omen meta on Bind?
No it doesnt. Check #32, was just saying that to enforce that i am aware of the ascend comp. I agree that LOUD is the only americas team to create meta comps this season
K2215 [#41]Plus Bind is different as fnatic is only team that plays cypher on it in emea. Pearl is like DRX made the meta of harbour/viper with kj skye so yeah
Loud made it I got confirmed, aparently drx started playing it because of the rumours in scrims.
Cresp [#48]Loud made it I got confirmed, aparently drx started playing it because of the rumours in scrims.
^
I think the only two maps with defined metas rn are split and pearl, both being made by loud (americas)
Aletheia [#39]I'm pretty sure Liquid did the lotus comp first with kayo instead of kj
Both those comps play completely different imo i see them different. If not fut created that comp then.
Ailed [#47]No it doesnt. Check #32, was just saying that to enforce that i am aware of the ascend comp. I agree that LOUD is the only americas team to create meta comps this season
My point is that calling something meta when they haven't won anything meaningful with it is just non sense. I go back to my earlier point but I think you would have called Harbor on Icebox meta while Fnatic were dominating that map with normal old school comp. And funnily enough I saw Harbor Icebox in tier 2 of EMEA before DRX(?) even played it so which teams actually make "metas".
xD1LL4N [#40]just bc yay was the best chamber doesn't mean they popularized it, the audacity is unreal
Nah optic was the only team to bring it to an international and win with it so I would consider they popularized it.
Cresp [#50]Both those comps play completely different imo i see them different. If not fut created that comp then.
You might be right. Then Heretics is the first by a few days (I checked 🤓).
At the end of the day, it really doesn't matter. I think both regions have innovated in a different way. I wish there was more harbor in EMEA but it is what it is
patuj [#51]My point is that calling something meta when they haven't won anything meaningful with it is just non sense. I go back to my earlier point but I think you would have called Harbor on Icebox meta while Fnatic were dominating that map with normal old school comp. And funnily enough I saw Harbor Icebox in tier 2 of EMEA before DRX(?) even played it so which teams actually make "metas".
I see more meta being making other teams switch, not necessarily winning something massive. (a better team can win something with a worse comp)
Ngl I forgot about icebox but yeah I would agree whoever started running harbor on that map the creator of that meta I have no idea who it is tho.
I really have no ill intent with my posts im not one of those americas supremacists, I was just commenting on the fact that americas has moved a lot more forwards towards defined metas than EMEA has, and how I personally think that will give americas teams a slight edge in tokyo on those maps (pearl and split mainly)
chick [#58]Imo Pacific Are the ones with the crazy comps, TS with Sova on Lotus, Phx Jett On Pearl by PRX, Gekko On bind By T1.
All around amazing Valorant and Amazing production
Gekko on bind is my fav!!! I love T1, but sova on lotus was actually an old thing giants and nrg both did. I dont count prx conps they play other games completely.
Ic4rusYam2 [#57]Why in every thread I go there are Americas and EMEA fighting? ☠️
I was trying to discuss comps and metas
Cresp [#59]Gekko on bind is my fav!!! I love T1, but sova on lotus was actually an old thing giants and nrg both did. I dont count prx conps they play other games completely.
IKR T1 My Beloved.
Also sova on Lotus is not new is surprising to me, gonna have to look it up!!
Cresp [#43]You definitely used to see teams try new things moreso than emea in americas in the early season. Furia ran chamber on split, double flash on pearl. 100t tried single controller on lotus, viper over kj on ascent. Sen tried the challengers comp over viper harbor. We saw a lot of different split comps before double duelist set. Loud tried a chamber on bind, double controller neon on fracture. EG tried gekko harbor astra on pearl, sova on fracture. C9 tried pheonix sage astra on pearl, they tried breach skye on ascent and viper skye on ascent too. But yeah theres no attempt at innovation in americas.
it takes 2 minutes to go to both emea and americas split to see that the usage percentage of agents in emea is way more spread out in americas, and go at playoffs, every time teams played pearl it was a mirror comp, everytime people played split it was a mirror comp, everytime people played ascend it was sova, kayo killjoy, jett, omen, 7 out of 8 comp that much copying would not happend in emea, ever since loud started playing viper harbor everyone in americas did it even if they did not know how to play it to its full potencial
im not saying there is no innovation but comparing to emea there is way less.
Chikenwarrior23 [#62]it takes 2 minutes to go to both emea and americas split to see that the usage percentage of agents in emea is way more spread out in americas, and go at playoffs, every time teams played pearl it was a mirror comp, everytime people played split it was a mirror comp, everytime people played ascend it was sova, kayo killjoy, jett, omen, 7 out of 8 comp that much copying would not happend in emea, ever since loud started playing viper harbor everyone in americas did it even if they did not know how to play it to its full potencial
im not saying there is no innovation but comparing to emea there is way less.
I think we have two different definitions of innovation. Setting a meta vs just trying a lot of random comps. Me and Cresp see inovation as making a comp that is so dominatig that other teams switch, which is why we see a lot of mirrors. There was no meta innovation in emea, hence we see a lot of different comps
Ailed [#63]I think we have two different definitions of innovation. Setting a meta vs just trying a lot of random comps. Me and Cresp see inovation as making a comp that is so dominatig that other teams switch, which is why we see a lot of mirrors. There was no meta innovation in emea, hence we see a lot of different comps
That ain't innovation lol. Innovating literally means trying new things and like the guy said the amount of mirror comps in americas is way higher than emea
patuj [#22]EMEA wasn't behind on Chamber meta IIRC, only OpTic was running it like crazy before others catched up. And as I said double controller (assuming you mean Harbor/Viper) isn't proven meta outside of like Pearl. That's like saying Americas is behind on Lotus meta because they don't play Fade as much.
I mean EMEA is also the only region to still run Omen on Split which is strictly for comfortability with Astra being super meta on the map now (with viper)
GreyDaze [#65]That ain't innovation lol. Innovating literally means trying new things and like the guy said the amount of mirror comps in americas is way higher than emea
I guess my point is what is the point of making new comps if they arent meta. I feel like this thread is going in circles LMAO
Ailed [#63]I think we have two different definitions of innovation. Setting a meta vs just trying a lot of random comps. Me and Cresp see inovation as making a comp that is so dominatig that other teams switch, which is why we see a lot of mirrors. There was no meta innovation in emea, hence we see a lot of different comps
i mean then the only team innovating is the team that did it first, the rest of the region is just copying, i don't think copy pasting the best team comps is innovation in my opinion.
and its kinda strange saying random comps, its not like emea just spins a wheel to find out their next comp,
to me creating your own stuff and going for you own playstlye that suits your team best, instead of going for meta comps just cause, is innovation.
Ic4rusYam2 [#57]Why in every thread I go there are Americas and EMEA fighting? ☠️
welcome to esports
Ailed [#68]I guess my point is what is the point of making new comps if they arent meta. I feel like this thread is going in circles LMAO
Meta is emea is way different from other regions tho. So just cause some comp in americas is meta doesn't mean rest of the world need to adapt to it. Anyway we will see in tokyo how the meta will stabilize our how it will shift
blazennn [#66]I mean EMEA is also the only region to still run Omen on Split which is strictly for comfortability with Astra being super meta on the map now (with viper)
Like back in Champions 2021 when Acend was still like only team playing Omen and won the Championship. Also EMEA plays Cypher so Viper isn't needed. With same logic I could say that Americas play Astra strictly for comfortability with Omen being super meta on the map now (with Cypher).
i dont think emea is behind in comps on any maps other than pearl. split double duelist has its weaknesses its a good comp but double sentinel or double initiator cypher comp are great comps aswell. americas dont play omen on split even though his flash is very strong and can easily stop double dive.
Chikenwarrior23 [#69]i mean then the only team innovating is the team that did it first, the rest of the region is just copying, i don't think copy pasting the best team comps is innovation in my opinion.
and its kinda strange saying random comps, its not like emea just spins a wheel to find out their next comp,
to me creating your own stuff and going for you own playstlye that suits your team best, instead of going for meta comps just cause, is innovation.
I get you. without loud we would be in a similair spot to emea this season definitely. And yeah saying random was j an exaggeration.
Regardless i am excited to see if a defined meta (americas) or more team preference comps (emea) will do better internationally, I understand that the comps that each team runs are the comps they think are the best
GreyDaze [#72]Meta is emea is way different from other regions tho. So just cause some comp in americas is meta doesn't mean rest of the world need to adapt to it. Anyway we will see in tokyo how the meta will stabilize our how it will shift
agreed. Im excited to see in champs how comps change based on the results of masters
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