Imagine a value between 0 and 1 that determines how a game outcome is generated, 0 being completely luck/rng based game like a slot machine or roulette where the players cant directly affect the outcome in any way possible and 1 being completely skill based game kinda like chess where the outcome is entirely on the players ability and decisions. what number is valorant and why?
3
Luck factor on Valorant
posted in
General Discussion
Comments:
Threaded
Linear
RahuLllllll [#3]0.8 everything have some luck factor in it be it a game or anything
i believe chess is very close to 1, it truly depends on what move the player does.
ledacion [#4]i believe chess is very close to 1, it truly depends on what move the player does.
yeah close to 1 but still not 1
ledacion [#4]i believe chess is very close to 1, it truly depends on what move the player does.
Chess is the closest we have to a 1, but still not 1, since there will always be some luck involved
Giannero [#10]Chess is the closest we have to a 1, but still not 1, since there will always be some luck involved
what is the luck in chess? opponent missing your move or not seeing something? thats a skill gap then
chess and checkers are some of the only games I can think of that are entirely skill based; meaning there is no rng or luck factor (drawing cards from a deck, chance things, dice)
williamm [#11]what is the luck in chess? opponent missing your move or not seeing something? thats a skill gap then
chess and checkers are some of the only games I can think of that are entirely skill based; meaning there is no rng or luck factor (drawing cards from a deck, chance things, dice)
Luck would just be how someone’s brain is working on that given day
zardinez [#12]Luck would just be how someone’s brain is working on that given day
"how you are feeling" = luck
???
you feeling bad/good on a given day does not mean the game itself has luck, that is down to the player.
williamm [#13]"how you are feeling" = luck
???you feeling bad/good on a given day does not mean the game itself has luck, that is down to the player.
Yeah that’s the point. There’s a reason algorithms are very good at chess.
babysasuke [#18]lol no was just doing other shit
and that was a valid take lol.....
wait where did that thread go??? did i miss something
Shownu [#6]Just give us a proper spray pattern for Vandal and its gg
Don't really need a spray pattern, just improve the accuracy reset time and it will be enough.
andrewdamf [#7]1
Play against a bronze lobby. Literally they hsve better aim than scream/derke/aspas
No you’re just bad
GLN321 [#16]Depends what counts as luck. If I hit an insane flick that if I were to try again 100 times I would only get it once, is it not luck because I did it or is it luck because its a 1/100 shot?
its definitely luck in my opinion, just like that nrg hazed flick from yesterday against xset. 99/100 times hazed died there.
There's always some form of rng. The best team in the world will reduce the rng to as close to 1 as possible with the way they play. The problem is this game is so much more team reliant so rank and pug play is really rng if u have shitty teammates but I think if you're level headed and good at getting ur team to work together then u have smooth rank games. It's hard to single handedly carry a game without a team to set u up.
zardinez [#15]Yeah that’s the point. There’s a reason algorithms are very good at chess.
exactly, because there is no luck
ledacion [#21]its definitely luck in my opinion, just like that nrg hazed flick from yesterday against xset. 99/100 times hazed died there.
that's true, and those situations have a very big impact on the game, it could be as big as a whole round win or economy damage at worst. Same thing goes for clearing 50/50s or doing a retake with low time
The probability of the patterns it's a big thing for a tactical shooter, in spray you have a 50% chance of the pattern goes un each direction, even in the first 3 bullets are small circle where the bullet can go
Other interesting thing is in full spray with the crosshair far away of the head you can still get a headshot, the probability of that is suuuper low but happen often, so there must be some kind of help
williamm [#11]what is the luck in chess? opponent missing your move or not seeing something? thats a skill gap then
chess and checkers are some of the only games I can think of that are entirely skill based; meaning there is no rng or luck factor (drawing cards from a deck, chance things, dice)
Luck is not knowing what to do, making a casual move without knowing what is going to happen, and have it work, luck is opponent making a mistake for example not hitting the timer or placing something in the wrong position even tho he knew he should have placed it somewhere else. No matter what you do, there will always be luck involved
Giannero [#27]Luck is not knowing what to do, making a casual move without knowing what is going to happen, and have it work, luck is opponent making a mistake for example not hitting the timer or placing something in the wrong position even tho he knew he should have placed it somewhere else. No matter what you do, there will always be luck involved
no, all of that is skill LOL
idk what to do here, then you arent good enough to win, cause some of the game's skill is knowledge. Not hitting the timer is a mistake, like you said, not luck. He misplays his piece? That is also a mistake, not luck. He made the choice.
Yes, if your opponent blunders then you got LUCKY, but the actual mistake itself is not because your opponent got lucky, he MISPLAYED~~~~.
Pretty much everything in this world is about luck if you think about it. The fact that enemy player decided to peak you just when you were looking at different direction is about luck and also you perfectly pre aiming to his position and he decides to peak and you get the kill is also about luck, because you can't control how other players behave. If you actually think about it.
patuj [#29]Pretty much everything in this world is about luck if you think about it. The fact that enemy player decided to peak you just when you were looking at different direction is about luck and also you perfectly pre aiming to his position and he decides to peak and you get the kill is also about luck, because you can't control how other players behave. If you actually think about it.
it is lucky for you but the act itself doesn't come down to luck. It's a timing, but its not something that just happens because it was lucky, You getting peeked when you look away is a skill gap, you didn't have the discipline to hold the angle until you were no longer exposed. In that scenario, you getting killed is unlucky, but the act itself is not luck based.
Same thing for if they wideswing peek into your crosshair. That's on them for not clearing/jiggling the angle. That's not luck, that's just them being bad, and their bad play eventually got punished.
There are a lot of things in valorant that appear lucky, but are not, like the 2 things you said. I would say that the luck based things are: run and gun, spray transfer/spray (bullets are semi random), and randomly throwing util into the sky hoping it lands on somebody (no info, no actual lineup, just a guess and hope it lands, its like run and gun). Things that you cannot repeat reliably typically, but not always, fall into the luck category
Things like running into their stack, wallbanging with 0 info, pre molly/pre shock certain areas, etc are NOT LUCK. They feel unlucky/lucky because you didn't play correctly, or you did play correctly. If you run into their 5 stack, it's unlucky in the sense that it was a 50-50 chance, but you also could have just recon darted and got info right? If you wallbang something consistently, like ascent with odin, it will work out every so often because the other team doesn't play well. They control if they are walking into the spray path, that is on them and you are taking advantage of it. It feels lucky because you didn't have control of it, but the other team did, therefore it is not lucky. Using util on areas (old example is a sova double bounce dart on haven b mid to break tripwire) is the same thing. You can not control if they play their trip wire there or not and that appears lucky, but it is just a good/bad play on their end to move the trip somewhere else or keep it on mid.
williamm [#30]it is lucky for you but the act itself doesn't come down to luck. It's a timing, but its not something that just happens because it was lucky, You getting peeked when you look away is a skill gap, you didn't have the discipline to hold the angle until you were no longer exposed. In that scenario, you getting killed is unlucky, but the act itself is not luck based.
Same thing for if they wideswing peek into your crosshair. That's on them for not clearing/jiggling the angle. That's not luck, that's just them being bad, and their bad play eventually got punished.
There are a lot of things in valorant that appear lucky, but are not, like the 2 things you said. I would say that the luck based things are: run and gun, spray transfer/spray (bullets are semi random), and randomly throwing util into the sky hoping it lands on somebody (no info, no actual lineup, just a guess and hope it lands, its like run and gun). Things that you cannot repeat reliably typically, but not always, fall into the luck category
Things like running into their stack, wallbanging with 0 info, pre molly/pre shock certain areas, etc are NOT LUCK. They feel unlucky/lucky because you didn't play correctly, or you did play correctly. If you run into their 5 stack, it's unlucky in the sense that it was a 50-50 chance, but you also could have just recon darted and got info right? If you wallbang something consistently, like ascent with odin, it will work out every so often because the other team doesn't play well. They control if they are walking into the spray path, that is on them and you are taking advantage of it. It feels lucky because you didn't have control of it, but the other team did, therefore it is not lucky. Using util on areas (old example is a sova double bounce dart on haven b mid to break tripwire) is the same thing. You can not control if they play their trip wire there or not and that appears lucky, but it is just a good/bad play on their end to move the trip somewhere else or keep it on mid.
Yes if you think it that way. My point is that luck affects pretty everything in your life and gaming is no different. Like even if you do everything perfectly there is still a lot of luck involved. You can work super hard and become the best, but it still doesn't remove the luck part from it. Everything is based on luck if you think it that way. Our comments have just different views and maybe meanings. My comment was just fast overall reply without much thought going for it outside of my believe of "luck", while your comment was explaining how you can "minimize" the luck aspect I guess. Its just different perspectives/aspects? Like I agree with everything you said when it comes to being in game and doing stuff there and what is lucky and what is unlucky and what is neither, but I was just talking about the bigger picture.
It may be dumb idea or logic but it isn't wrong.
williamm [#11]what is the luck in chess? opponent missing your move or not seeing something? thats a skill gap then
chess and checkers are some of the only games I can think of that are entirely skill based; meaning there is no rng or luck factor (drawing cards from a deck, chance things, dice)
I feel like luck in chess decreases when your elo gets higher... a low-skilled player might win vs. another low-skilled player without realizing that their moves lead to them winning. Of course theyre "low-skilled" but that doesnt eliminate the fact that a player got lucky because they unknowingly used certain set of moves (opening, midgame, endgame) to beat their opponent. The chances of this happening in a game is very low that's why a player doing this is lucky.
bloodysky [#34]I feel like luck in chess decreases when your elo gets higher... a low-skilled player might win vs. another low-skilled player without realizing that their moves lead to them winning. Of course theyre "low-skilled" but that doesnt eliminate the fact that a player got lucky because they unknowingly used certain set of moves (opening, midgame, endgame) to beat their opponent. The chances of this happening in a game is very low that's why a player doing this is lucky.
yes, it is lucky that you won without knowing what you are doing, but you still made each decision yourself, it wasn't rng, and it was based on the information you had at the time. You and your opponent have complete control over EVERYTHING that happens.
Let's say both players play with their eyes closed and the moves are not called out. I would say that a win here is pure luck, you do not know where their pieces are, so you cannot make a decision based off of which move is best, and that is luck. But that isn't how chess is played, so it doesn't matter.
If the low skilled players are rolling a die to choose which move to play, then yes, it would be lucky that they got a win. But it is not lucky in the scenario you said, because they both can choose each move and see the consequences. Even if they do not intend to do something, it is still a choice that they make to play. Yes, there is some element of randomness is low skill chess games, but you don't win by luck.
williamm [#37]yes, it is lucky that you won without knowing what you are doing, but you still made each decision yourself, it wasn't rng, and it was based on the information you had at the time. You and your opponent have complete control over EVERYTHING that happens.
Let's say both players play with their eyes closed and the moves are not called out. I would say that a win here is pure luck, you do not know where their pieces are, so you cannot make a decision based off of which move is best, and that is luck. But that isn't how chess is played, so it doesn't matter.
If the low skilled players are rolling a die to choose which move to play, then yes, it would be lucky that they got a win. But it is not lucky in the scenario you said, because they both can choose each move and see the consequences. Even if they do not intend to do something, it is still a choice that they make to play. Yes, there is some element of randomness is low skill chess games, but you don't win by luck.
well phrased
williamm [#11]what is the luck in chess? opponent missing your move or not seeing something? thats a skill gap then
chess and checkers are some of the only games I can think of that are entirely skill based; meaning there is no rng or luck factor (drawing cards from a deck, chance things, dice)
In the highest levels, there is no luck as players will play with both white and black most of the time
However, WHITE HAS THE HIGHER WIN RATES ACROSS THE HIGHEST LEVELS OF PLAY, albeit slightly
This is because the first move controls the game into a favorable line for the white player. The difference is VERY MINISCULE, but that is what makes or breaks a game at the highest levels, where the difference in player skill is also VERY MINISCULE
Ultimate6989 [#39]In the highest levels, there is no luck as players will play with both white and black most of the time
However, WHITE HAS THE HIGHER WIN RATES ACROSS THE HIGHEST LEVELS OF PLAY, albeit slightly
This is because the first move controls the game into a favorable line for the white player. The difference is VERY MINISCULE, but that is what makes or breaks a game at the highest levels, where the difference in player skill is also VERY MINISCULE
So there is luck based off who wins the coin flip and gets white/black? That's not part of the gameplay. That's like saying VALORANT is luck based because you might start attack or defense. Once the coinflip is determined there is no luck in chess. Additionally, that is a problem with formatting rather than the actual game
Discord