They play slower than G2. They just have a ton of fans because of they carry all of EMEA on their backs and get away with a disgusting amount of clutches.
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| Registered: | June 15, 2023 |
| Last post: | June 22, 2025 at 2:39 PM |
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They play slower than G2. They just have a ton of fans because of they carry all of EMEA on their backs and get away with a disgusting amount of clutches.
Yeah but they’ve gotta survive Icebox to get to those others.
This was a comment but I realized it probably needs to be a separate discussion.
Americas has a stylistic issue coming from Tejo Meta to a double duelist/smokes Meta. They’ve historically favored retakes and utility flushing over the suffocating aggro we see in teams like PRX and TH or the stable defaults seen from GENG and FNC.
G2 finds themselves in the middle though with their stinger set plays and their slow attack defaults. Their main issue, is that they get hard punished against mechanically oppressive teams that can secure first bloods consistently. Every single loss they’ve had from EDG and T1 at Bangkok to their matches against PRX and FNC at Toronto proves this in their FB/FD stats. They often go negative on the attack half and make up for it on defense.
So how do they fix it? Just play some of their rounds the way they do their stinger thrifties with more risks and they’ll either guarantee first bloods or even trades with more map control. They have some of the best spacing for trades and they need to abuse that in a post-Tejo Meta.
Edit: typo (problem to probably)
No, Americas has a stylistic issue coming from Tejo Meta to a double duelist/smokes Meta. They favor retakes and utility dumps over the suffocating aggro of PRX or the stable defaults seen from GENG and FNC.
G2 finds themselves in the middle with their stinger set plays and their slow attack defaults but get hard punished against mechanically oppressive teams that can secure first bloods consistently. Every single loss they’ve had from EDG and T1 at Bangkok to their matches against PRX and FNC at Toronto proves this in their FB/FD stats. They often go negative on the attack half and make up for it on defense.
Their defaults against a team with incredibly strong fraggers meant they kept giving first blood, sometimes without a trade. They went 7 - 16 on Lotus and then 6 - 17 on Split. No matter how good you are, playing 4v5 that many rounds will lose you the match.
Their best rounds were fast paced death balls and retakes where they could dump util and use their incredible spacing for trades. This issue doesn’t come up frequently, but today just proved that they can run into a wall when their opponent is in great form.
Americas was definitely hit hardest by the Tejo nerfs given their top teams relied so heavily on it (RRQ and XLG are the same). It’s definitely just them struggling to adapt.
G2 need to work on their site anchoring because they crutch too heavy on their retakes. Without the utility surplus of Tejo, they’re gonna struggle. I really want to see them move Jawgemo back onto the Raze for the zoning utility or have Trent pick it up if they keep running the Yoru.
Yeah, it was a fun match with a ton of clutches and thrifties. Respect for the good sportsmanship!
FNC truly representing EMEA by carrying the KC banner
G2 wins lotus cleanly with a pistol.
Split is a toss up and Haven favors them.
Not because of Boaster’s calls though. You got some incredible fraggers in Alfa and Chronicle and some braindead fans in yourself.
FNC barely pulled that win out of their asses with double pistol and some insane clutches from Alfa and Chronicle. Let’s not pretend like they were expected to win it.
That’s false. People were saying this about G2 since Shanghai.
You can’t watch this FNC attack and pretend like they’re not the slowest team in the tournament.
FNC have a pretty bad map pool matchup against PRX.
They just beat all of the most bandwagoned teams: SEN, PRX, and EDG. Pair it with the fact that they used to play slower with a huge preference for retakes and utility abuse and it feels suffocating playing against them.
I’m still hoping for Trent to play Raze like he used to on double duelist split comps with Tex. He’s in the form for it and it lets JonahP get off Breach duty to play Fade/Sova instead given how uncomfortable he looks on Breach now.
Yeah, I don’t get why they continue to play the Breach when every other team is moving away from it. It has some of the worst win rates prior to the Tejo Meta.
I need to see them pick up double duelist like PRX or lean into the GENG comps with Viper + Sentinel. They’re still playing for retakes like they have the utility surplus for it when they should be hard fighting chokes and anchoring sites for floods — which is something they abandoned when they stopped running a sentinel.
I think they need to drop Breach and put JonahP on either Kayo or Viper. Then have Leaf flex between a Sentinel or secondary Duelist and they should be good no?
His utility on other agents is clearly a bit rusty with missed Fade eyes and shock darts. Despite losing 0-2 though, he was still the best player in the match today.
You think the team with the highest success rate for thrifties with stingers are boring?
Because they’re an academy team, they can’t even ascend right? This is just to give these players official experience outside of their regular practice with the main team.
Vyse, Omen, Fade, Raze, Yoru
Or
Vyse, Astra, Kayo, Gekko, Neon
Hey, great post man! It gives a lot of insight and it helped me see how little PRX and TH have to change with the new patch. If they don’t make changes on their other maps though, there’s a good chance they go into the tournament with Anti’s prepared against them.
G2, SEN, RRQ, and GENG have a lot to change but man it makes me excited to see Anderzz get to work on new comps with zero footage on them. His work will decide whether G2 shred through the tournament or absolutely fall apart.
Which teams will benefit or suffer from the new patch at Toronto?
Considerations:
What’s up with the revisionism?
GENG were heavy favorites going into Shanghai since they placed 2nd at Madrid and SEN didn’t qualify.
EDG was pretty invisible until Champs and most people were still highly rating GENG alongside TH and G2/LEV.
T1 was the shakiest team among all of the Bangkok teams throughout their qualification. They improved in form rapidly during the tournament but most people highly rated EDG and DRX instead. G2 was rightfully hyped but they just fell short during the GF — now they’re Americas’ first seed into Toronto again while T1 fell off.
Most people right now are considering G2 and TH as favorites for Toronto because Pacific’s top teams seem less consistent while China is sending fresh teams. GENG/RRQ look strong but not nearly as dominant in region.
At their respective peaks, EG would win — especially with Fracture still in rotation rn.
Most users on this site aren’t very bright.
Leo, Sacy, Stax, c0m, Crashies.
Shao had a really high peak but his role swap to smokes hurts his case.
It’s kinda funny that the best initiators right now don’t have trophies: Trent, RieNs, Invy, Verno, slowly, etc
Not exactly comparable but I'm pretty sure Valyn mentioned that both TGRD and m80 were regularly frying VCT teams in scrims in 2023. At the same time, Trent was their best player in both 2022 and 2023, and his stats reflect it. You could argue that he farmed other T2 players in 2023, but you'd totally be missing that a good 3rd of them are currently Franchised this year and include names like: N4rrate, Verno, Yay, Oxy, Zander, Rossy, Supamen, etc. Plus he was a breakout initiator in 2022 among the rest of the known T1 names.
2024 was his absolute worst year in his career, and G2 still made top 3 at Shanghai and Champs playoffs.
2025 is just a return to form for him. He's not a Tejo merchant but the best player on Tejo.
I'm looking forward to seeing him prove that his current form doesn't rely on a specific agent. His Sova is already comparable to his Tejo and he just needs to prove it on Fade and other initiators so you new-gen viewers finally shut your mouths.
I’d rather not take in any more bandwagons. Choose a player or team you like and support them whether they win or lose.
I’ve supported my core since they beat Optic before bombing out of Reykjavik, through their LCQ loss, their Ascension grind and near-failed promotion, and every second place finish up until now. And whether or not they choke Toronto, I’m still going to support them because they play my favorite Valorant.
They’d have to skip group stages by getting first seed to have a decent chance. EMEA has a prep deficit because they’re behind schedule by two weeks and the other regions will have acclimated to the new patch by then with fresher ideas.
Also, Individual form from the group stages of a Split aren’t a good indicator for performance in a high pressure, fast paced international (7 weeks vs 2 weeks). TH have never closed out a trophy either and there’s likely a mental block to work through.
No, a hot take is like saying that G2 will go 0-2 in playoffs. They’re objectively a favorite for Toronto.
TH are peaking fs but they have less time to make changes going into Toronto compared to the other regions — even if they secure first seed.
I’m praying for a G2 vs TH grand final because the last time we had this region matchup was Tokyo and the second place curse will have to be broken. The new patch will weaken G2 from their current dominance and make the game a lot closer hopefully.
G2 has played nearly triple the rounds so their stats are deflated but this is how I’d rate the H2H given recent form.
Jawg =< Miniboo
Trent = Riens
JonahP < Wo0t
Valyn > Boo
Leaf > Benjyfishy
Maybe I’m delulu but G2 feels comparable to 2023 FNC despite playing in a far more competitive region/year. It would be absolutely tragic if they don’t secure at least one trophy this year when they’ve been the favorites for these first two internationals.
One of Mako, Leaf, and Trent
Insane take. G2 is one of the most flexible rosters at the top of the scene and makes some of the quickest round to round adaptations.
Please give me a 5 map Final that rivals Bangkok — I don’t care who wins as long as every round is a banger.
Not sure when they started calling it “rage baiting” when it’s just you being an asshole haha
There’s a ton of world class Duelists, Initiators, Controllers, and Sentinels. There aren’t many world class IGLs.
Even if you’re hate watching them, you’ve gotta admit G2 games are insanely entertaining to watch.
Their stinger rounds must be a nightmare to play against. You can never be quite sure when they’re gonna force and they will absolutely disrespect you with those laser beams jfc
It’s crazy how much y’all are doubting G2. They lost to SEN by the slimmest margin possible — 2 round differential on the last two maps and mostly because of extremely good Anti-stratting on Ascent. I wouldn’t be surprised if they still take first seed.
They’re gonna have a full month to cook and come into Toronto fresh. By contrast, the EMEA teams will only have 2 weeks so I’m not sure why y’all are hyping TH so heavily on their current form. Don’t forget that they also have to fly over early and acclimate through Jet lag while the Americas teams will have home field advantage. JonahP is likely the only Canadian to attend (though I’m cheering for NAVI) and G2 will be crowd favorites.
I’m looking forward to the G2 vs. TH rematch in the GF where one of them finally break the 2nd Place curse.
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