Cant believe its been 2 years since I showered 🙏
Time flies by fast

knew* and this isnt bait, primmie got grouped 0-2 and flashback im unfamiliar with, primmies was overhyped and got grouped, sure he was the best on the team but is being the best on a 4th seed fluke playoff run team that much of an accomplishment? primmie was okay man he was good but nowhere near what ppl hyped him for YET.

bro your on dick, the original reason i made this was cus people were saying verno was top 10 with zero vct experience, so i brought up other rookies to show that traditionally they arent ever top 10, your only proving my point by listing players with zero hype, orrookies that werent top 10, also i never said anything about washed players lmao

governor was okay
primmie was okay
runner was okay
kicks was okay
mta was okay
flashback was okay
icy was okay
miniboo was not a top 5 duelist ion wanna hear it
s1mon is not top 5 initi ion wanna hear it

only karon, yetujey, johnqt, riens, woot had great individual preformances only 2/5 got grouped

I never said they were bad bro, I just said most of them weren't top 10 itw or top 3 regionally, dot call me dumb because ppl can't understand off season doesn't equate to regular season

Karon, s1mon, and riens were not hyped at all until they started winning wtf are u on abt, and they are on the list lmao read again

Bro your comparing established players who have made deep runs or even won events. To rookies that have never played a single vct game, YOUR logic is flawed. Sure you can beat a better team with worse players but ifk even know how that firs into what I said, you consistently don't win anything international if your players aren't either top 5 or top 3 in their roles,
Every winner this year had atleast 3 people that were top 5 or top 3 in their role besides maybe sentinels if you don't think johnqt was a top 5 igl/senti

Ur on dick bro

Where is Aspas during 2012 ring, 2020 ring, 2016 ring, and 2013 ring

i didnt see Aspas in the 2012 finals

where was Aspas during the 2016 finals

Lebron beats Aspas in 1v1 ascent mid any day, has Aspas ever dunked on Tim Duncan?
did Aspas come back 3-1 in the finals?
Aspas= 1 chip
Lebron = 4
Aspas = 0 mvp's
Lebron= 4 mvp's

I rest my case

Icy also got diffed by 2024 loud lmao

Jawgemo got diffed by 2024 loud😭

Only person I named that didn't win an event was jingg and he is still the undisputed goat of Raze I think

Henbaby is my favorite femboy

Blasphemy

I don't think tenz yoru is better than derkes
Or his Omen better than marved, I just said his name because it's better than the other people mentioned imo
Tenz put yoru on the map for vct I felt only right he's atleast top 3

Doesn't matter my goat babyj wins 13-0 any map any angle

Gc players are simply worse than t1 players no hate it's just a fact

Me as coach next pls

Goat means "Greatest of all time" not whoever is best as of right now or outdated, this feels biased for more recent results
Raze should go to jingg or aspas
Yoru should be tenz or derke
Omen should go to marvel or tenz or pancada
Jett should go to tenz, demon1, or aspas
Reyna could also go to tenz or something
Viper should be Nats fs
Cypher also nats
Astra is boaster
Kayo "could" go to saadhak but I fw the Ethan pick
Killjoy could go to fns or meteor imo
S1mon could get breach too

The rr gain/loss in ascendant is also pretty bad. It's not as drastic as immortal but you lose 19-22 per game and get 14-17 per win.
If your good enough to hit radiant, you'll probably hit it atleast once in the act
If your good enough for immortal in ascendant it's just luck of the draw, even if you go onba streak you still get ascendant teammates in immortal and it's a shitshow trying to stay immortal or get in immortal.

The casters had a parlay on forsaken

Ascendant to immortal is harder than immortal to radiant, sure radiant is hard but atleast majority of people in immortal somewhat care, ascendant is
10% wanna rank up
70% already hit immortal and dont care abt their rank anymore
10% throwing/hacking/afk
10% no com brain dead run it down duelist
Im immortal now and you can easily hit imm2 with just some luck and a Winstreak

In immortal aslong as your doing good you can rank up, but in ascendant it's mostly up to whether ur team wants to win or not

beating a team like navi regardless of how you did it is an upset edg were a good team log off

you are not cooking please log off

whether they lost to t1 or not how can you say edg upset navi, t1, and loud and were a bad team. you dont get lucky and just upset 3 teams in a row 2 of which being contenders for top 3. no shit after they play a game against a team outside of their region they get better and learn, every team does. plus what else is a team supposed to say after qualifying for playoffs "yeah we were dogshit and lost to a terrible t1 team, even though we beat navi and t1 we didnt learn anything and are still a horrible team" ???????

whats china

dont make roster change
lose kick off lower final
do good regular season
choke playoffs
make champs
get grouped or 6th place
heretics are gonna have a great year lmao

bro this makes no sense why couldnt the lost against t1 have been an upset also????
you actually have zero iq, edg was a good team during tokyo kangkang was playing insane they beat loud, navi, almost won against prx and got 6th at 2 events, they were the 6th best team that year out of 34 teams keep coping bro im done

upsets happen bro, how did optic lose to to xerxia then win groups, if xerxia beat the favorites why didnt they win the event, explain to me where the confidence to beat navi came from if they lost to a 4th seed pacific team who were kinda ass.

it doesnt work tho
navi with cned got 4th lock in, and mad every event just got shit groups at both
sen originally kept the same 2021 roster
everyone was saying nrg was a reborn optic roster it had 3/5th of players and people even said nrg v loud was still el classico

confidence boost?????? bro your trying so hard to cope by saying edg was shit, they were a breakout chinese team, got grouped 2022, came back and shit on multiple playoff contenders, they were genuinely a good team, where did the "confidence" to beat navi come from if they were so shit they lost to t1

every team ever that kept rosters still shit the bed the next year, my point stands no matter the reasoning you give

my fault i didnt give examples of teams who changed and cooked in the original post i thought it was too long but i did in other replies
2023 navi changed and got 4th lock in , made all events but got shit groups
2023 changed, got 2nd lock in won regional, 3rd champ
neg picked up 3/5 of the optic roster, 5th lock in, 4th tokyo, shit show at champs but solid year
teams who change majority of the time still compete the next year, majority of teams who run it back play like shit the next year

edg were not horrible, they almost beat the world champ eg team, almost beat runner up of champ prx, beat loud, beat navi, and they beat t1 in the rematch.

and bro literally everyone said nrg was the new optic, not just me

i meant the 2024 navi they had the exact same fpx roster and missed every event then fell apart
gambit played with the exact same players 2022 and missed every event
fnatic won 2 events, went 9-0 at regional, 4th at champs, i think calling their 6th place, 8th place and not making madrid a failure for that good of a team, remember they played WITH leo for kickoff
prx got jingg back and went 0-2 playoffs then got grouped

brother it kinda is your fault why would i reload while im replying lmao i saw the original message my first thought isnt "lemme reload just incase he changes this dogshit attrocious take"

you said one thing then edited it lmao dont look smart
i replied for u bro

navi with cned did work, they just got shit groups, sen kept the roster and failed, and nrg literally was the new optic, dont act like everyone wasnt saying nrg was optic back then, they even said nrg v loud was el classico

gambit roster played with the same team for all of 2022, didnt make a single event
edg got 6th both masters and champs as a breakout for china
navi ran back the fpx roster in 2024 and did nothing
fanatic won 2 events went undefeated in split and got 4th at champs the previous year. surely a 6th place champs and 8th place masters was way worse than they were expecting no?

how is edg and heretics situation different than every other team i mentioned, those two do not have the most success out of every team there. but to anwser your question it does and doesnt make sense to run it back, sure each team was insane this year and had good showing but looks at the facts, there has never been a team that did good back to back years and still did great by keeping the same 5 players and coach. (besides maybe prx and fnatic if you count getting grouped and 0-2 at playoffs a good year) it cannot hurt to change.

loud 2022 win champs -pancada,sacy
get 2nd lock in, win regional, 3rd at champ

fpx 2022 win reyk - ardiis
4th at lock in, make both internationals but get shit groups

optic/nrg - yay, marved
5th lock in, 4th tokyo

you can say that it make sense to run it back but historically it really doesnt.

you can say that about every single team i mentioned look at everyones past results, things get stale, chem changes, people change, meta changes, map pool changes. just because it worked once doesn't mean its gonna work the next year. plus if u have 4 pieces to the championship core surely you can still make internationals right? doesnt hurt to change something.

teams that keep their old lineup do NOT cook, just switch atleast 1 player, even if all 5 of those players were amazing on their role you cant guarantee that same success, new map pools, new teams/players, new agents, new meta. too many variables, hot take idk why people have either winning regional or winning a event (besides EDG for regionals) I don't think we will ever see the same 5 win a title in 2 different years.
sen after 2021 didnt work
fnatic after 2023 didnt work
prx after 2023 didnt work
fpx/navi after 2022 didnt work
edg after 2023 didnt work until they added a new player
acend after 2021 didnt work
gambit after 2021 didnt work

the only team that kept exact rosters and still found success was optic/envy and they didnt do THAT much the year before they won.

zero ball knowledge liquid and wolves are winning both masters

That's still glaze no?

That's not even close to my point. To be a top player itw you have to actually beat other teams in the world (not during off season)

i cant tell if ur being sarcastic or not but biank clutched rounds they needed to win and idk where you got -16 in first duels that was the whole team, not just biank. nrg players have both acknowledged they through lotus and also said it was biank that really won them lotus

biank can be argued hes the only reason blg upset nrg in 2023
AAAAY was consistently a top 2-3 player on FPX while they were almost beating geng and heretics