loud has never lost to a European team except fnatic at lock in
| Flag: | United States |
| Registered: | August 4, 2023 |
| Last post: | October 21, 2024 at 8:42 PM |
| Posts: | 110 |
loud has never lost to a European team except fnatic at lock in
ive never seen navi flairs more obsessed with na teams especially optic
somehow even after 2 years, they still talk about optic 😂
but if we really wanna talk about frauds, we should talk about navi/fpx
fpx/navi 2022 accomplishments:
they win 1 online challengers tournament (unlucky they cant go lan)
they win Copenhagen by having miracle run ( 4/5 players with top rating + suygestu having life game vs fnatic + didnt have to face Loud)
2 accomplishments total
at the most important tournament VALORANT Champs 2022, they get beat by XSET (2nd best na team) 💀 and lose to DRX twice 2-0
but lets also talk 2023
lockin 2023 - fpx now navi are back to normal which is always losing to fnatic. the record I think at this point is fnatic 5-1
VCT EMEA 2023 - navi look decent against the weaker emea teams until they meet fnatic/liquid again. score is now fnatic 6-1
masters tokyo 2023 - navi doesn't win a series. loses to NRG (formerly optic) and EDG
champs 2023 - gets grouped by loud and drx. score is now drx 4-1
so whenever you see a navi flair remember this:
out of all teams who won international events - navi by far had the least amount of other top tournament placings/wins
every other international winner had either multiple online titles prior or went on to compete in the grand finals of other international events
every bad take I see is from a navi flair
its so weird how obsessed they are with NA teams
they were the best emea team for like 1 tournament and then got dismantled by DRX
if you wanna talk about actual frauds we should talk about the fall of navi 😂.
how you go from 1st to out in quarters then 0 accomplishments in 2023.
is it fair to say he's not a good player after one bad stint with a dysfunctional team? like you do have to keep in mind he played only one single tournament (6 matches total I think?) with dsg.
to me its hard to say he went from #1 to not even a top player in a span of 3-4 months. obviously there was meta changes, but I think its pretty criminal to understate how hard it is to get to #1. you have to be pretty well developed in a lot of other areas than just an agent to be up there
can someone fill me in
why does everyone seemingly hate/dislike yay. I dont think ive ever seen any other player with this daily spam about him
from what ive seen he doesn't say a lot, and generally outside dsg I think stays out of drama.
which is more likely
yay after being #1 in 2022 and being insane in 2021 just losing all his skill in 2023
or DSG was a shit team in which almost all the former players are retired and not playing anymore
homie sukuna will clear regardless with or without maharaja
someone everyone forgets the 2-3 years prior of potter not making a single international event
they continued to lose, lose, and lose till they got demon1 and now somehow she's the best coach ever
why does everyone give potter so much credit
before demon1 they were like last in the league
only after demon1 they begun to win
potter had EG for years and never made an international lan
lacking identity + important roles have players who aren't great on them
cryo can't entry and can't flex much
asuna CAN entry but can't op + his jett is kinda bad
asuna on flex is not great (average/super inconsistent)
bang underperforming for awhile now (maybe due to bad entries can't get into good situations)
guys
you keep forgetting that literally eg was bottom place NA till get they got demon1
you need more than just boostio to fix this team
you need to replace cryo as a start with someone who can entry + play raze and create space rather than him taking 60+ seconds to clear out 1 hallway towards a site
once they replace cryo + asuna
they will be a top team
fnatic lost to G2 3-0 at the time. they weren't nearly as good. the only case is FPX which again they lost in Copenhagen to DRX and then got destroyed at champs twice with their full lineup by DRX. it's extremely possible for them to have lost at Iceland as well, it's not some "free" tournament as people make it out to be..
not to mention I dont think FPX has ever beaten loud. which probably would destroy them as well.
either way. at Iceland chamber was more fullpower and optic had neon comps that no one else did. I think it'd be pretty likely optic would win but who knows
you can't just blindly say a tournament was a fluke because optic would go onto outplace them again at champs. but only Emea fans really say this anyways so :/
masters berlin: 2nd
champs 2021: grouped (victor got covid)
Iceland: 1st
Copenhagen: 3rd
champs: 2nd
but apparently despite making 2 other grand finals and a 3rd place their win is a fluke?
its ironic that fans will say oh since fpx wasn't there it doesn't count while also forgetting that same fpx lost to drx. who's to say fpx doesn't meet drx early and loses in Iceland? lmao
also you shouldn't compare optic vs nrg. they are 2 different rosters and no one thinks nrg dominated in 2023 lol
"FiNNESSE- won Reykjavik and has been really consistent like saadhak and Boaster but like Boaster hasn't really brung his team back from a humiliating loss"
I guess we're forgetting about optic's losses against X10, Xerxia, Rise, and Navi
but ok lol
ok but they're similar in skill and accomplishment and one is losing to immortals
idk how that isn't a fair comparison but aite
s1mple loses to immortal players 💀
man had 1 round total that he out op'd yay
while yay cooked him every other series
winning one series against drx would increase the chances of fpx winning entire tourney by a lot
winning one series against LOUD would of won optic the entire tournament 💀 they also tweeted about food poisoning
why does it even matter, what matters is that y0y couldnt perform even in t3 without optic and overpowered agent, while shao still played well throughout 2023 in tier 1
except he has before in andbox 💀
but feel free to throw away 2-3 years of history for a bad month with a dysfunctional team
just like how shao is barely above 1.0 rating these last 90 days and has been struggling
My point stands, just watch optech games
it doesn't stand because you never addressed it
not my point. The point is that shao had better stats in copenhagen and lock in without an agent that inflates stats
Most likely would've gotten mvp in masters 1 too but got robbed sadly
did you forget lock/in was 2023 lol?
and yay almost beat shao's stats there with a nerfed to the ground chamber
and the point is yay had better stats/results/placings/impact than shao for the entire year. there is no stat outside 1 tournament, and he barely managed to beat yay by 0.01 on his worst tournament, while yay vs shao on his best was like 0.2
it does affect it
glad we agree that masters 1 is a bonus for yayHe played against kru, xset before they became good and loud in their bad form and right after that he got destroyed by prx and fpx
and FPX played against NORTHEPTION 💀
and LOUD was still in form, but KRU always beat Brazilian teams (life game as u called it)
xset had a life game and he got destroyed by loud (and drx played against fpx with poisoning issues)
poisoning issues both series?
https://www.vlr.gg/130678/drx-vs-funplus-phoenix-valorant-champions-2022-ubqf
https://www.vlr.gg/130690/funplus-phoenix-vs-drx-valorant-champions-2022-lr3
some crazy copium
y0y was being set up more than anyone else
chambers are lurks/anchors
how exactly do you setup a lurk lol?
its like saying LOUD setups Less when he just walks around with his team making noise
Notice how he bottomfragged against tier 3 teams once he started playing for dsg.
where are the players from DSG now?
steel - retired/lead T1 previously in which every player that played on that team got better after leaving
genghsta - retired
exalt - retired
nerve - on some random tier 5 team
Also you completely ignored that y0y abused overpowered agent and shao didn't
did shao forget to unlock chamber?
masters 1 - ok but regardless of sha0 can attend/not masters 1 affects a best player of the year award
masters 2 - yay farmed stats off of easy matchups? brother his best performances were in playoffs. he sucked in the group stage of that tournament. he outperformed sha0 come playoff time
https://www.vlr.gg/event/stats/1014/valorant-champions-tour-stage-2-masters-copenhagen?exclude=12560.12561.12562.12563.12564.12565.12566.12567&min_rounds=0&agent=all
masters 3 -
"easy matchups"
he only played LOUD 3 times
XSET who was 2 rounds away from knocking you out
and DRX, the team that destroyed sha0 both times 2-0
and he performed better than shao against every team that shao played
optic setting him up-
ah yes, no other team sets up their players!
also why didnt ardiis perform in optic? he got the "optic setup" as you call it, but somehow performed worse
dont know where this revisionist shit is coming from
shao wasn't even the 2nd best in 2022
https://www.vlr.gg/130690/funplus-phoenix-vs-drx-valorant-champions-2022-lr3
LOL
"yay got carried by optic"
-> optic before yay
never made an international event
top 3 at best in NA behind both 100T and Sentinels
always choked in big tournaments/qualifiers
-> optic after yay
first international tournament 2nd place
next year wins their first international and proceeds to place 3/2nd at the next two
yay never goes negative on optic except for 2 series total in the 1-2 years he played with them
-> nrg without yay
barely makes Tokyo (1 loss away from not making it)
has never made top 3 in any international
lost to billibilli in champs twice
bad bait 💀
tenz stats during berlin:
1.03 rating vs G2 (2 BO3s played)
0.96 rating vs Envy (1 BO3 played)
1.6 RATING vs F4Q (2 BO3s played)
fifth best player?
brother beating 1 team badly out of 16 teams doesn't make you 5th best hahaha
"same goes for tenz who was better than his competition in jett meta"
take fnatic vs Liquid for example prior to Iceland
https://www.vlr.gg/16836/team-liquid-vs-fnatic-champions-tour-stage-2-emea-challengers-playoffs-gf/?game=31243&tab=overview
Liquid ran no duelist on Haven. Fnatic ran Raze on Haven
KRU ran no duelist on Haven / Fnatic finally switched over to Jett in Iceland after scrimming vs NA (they played raze entirely while in Europe)
Guild played Raze on Ascent lmao at this point
my point is this: sentinels was strong because they had a better read of the meta at the start. but once people started caught on, they quickly fell off faster than any other team. optic was the best at the meta, while sentinels just knew the meta first
they did and it showed the following tournaments with sentinels as tenz's Jett fell off after 1 tournament (esp at champs)
unlike optic who remained consistent with chamber
brother you REFUSE to see what I am saying
I dont know why you keep saying to only remove the 2nd matches. my point isn't about the teams playing 2 times in a row. I don't care if they played each other 3 times/5 times or 30 times. It's not about the matches, its about the TEAMS he played.
this is my POINT as simply as I can put it:
TenZ ONLY PLAYED GOOD vs ONE TEAM overall in BERLIN
Therefore
you can't say he's a top 5 player/performer at the tournament when he ONLY had a high rating overall vs F4Q
and IF he only had high stats overall vs F4Q then his stats BY DEFINITION are INFLATED
Once again:
1.03 rating vs G2 (2 BO3s played)
0.96 rating vs Envy (1 BO3 played)
1.6 RATING vs F4Q (2 BO3s played)
I'll ask you the question simply. Does a high rating vs F4Q translate to him being a top 5 performer at this tournament?
ah yes the "saving strats for playoffs/games dont mean anything/trolling the games"
zombs also said they're ready for playoffs.. which they weren't.
we'll have to wait till champs to see if tenz/sentinels still are a top contender.. oh wait they got grouped with tenz's performances continuing to decline every tournament
don't worry next year, they'll get their shit together. except.. 0-5
what about 2nd at berlin? just a fluke or?
and ig nobody else had access to chamber rofl
ok but you're missing my point entirely
im saying you can't consider tenz someone who dominated berlin when he only dominated 1 team total lol
tenz stats during berlin:
1.03 rating vs G2 (2 BO3s played)
0.96 rating vs Envy (1 BO3 played)
1.6 RATING vs F4Q (2 BO3s played)
nats played vs I believe 5 different teams and did well and won the event
even if you remove crazy raccoons, he still did REALLY well in the tournament stats wise
BUT if you remove F4Q, tenz does NOT do well at all in the tournament
thats the difference between the two.
optic vs sentinels
optic/nv placings at international tournaments:
2nd Berlin
11/12 Champs 2021 (Victor covid unlucky)
1st Reykjavik
3rd Copenhagen
2nd Champions 2022
multiple metas (Double duelist -> Jett + double init (kay0 skye) -> Chamber + some Neon)
---
sentinels placings
1st Reykjavik 2021
5-8th Berlin
11-12th Champs
proceeds to go 0-5 in VCT Challengers online
they only did well with 1 meta (double duelist)
I feel like you ignored exactly what I asked and said
please answer this directly
when you're using stats for tenz berlin performance
1.03 rating vs G2 (2 BO3s played)
0.96 rating vs Envy (1 BO3 played)
1.6 RATING vs F4Q (2 BO3s played)
can you REALLY say for a tournament with 16 teams, that farming 1 team (F4Q) means that he was a top 5 player in the tournament? or does it mean that its skewed a bit?
---
but im really confused how this changes anything. teams all the time play each other multiple times. and yes usually you're gonna have worst stats on losses. and he was still a good player and I agree with u on being best in sentinels, but I dont consider him a top performer for this tournament for the reasons above. thats why I point out multiple times that outside one team he didn't have a great tournament but "stats" wise it looks like he did.
no but context is important
this is the first international tournament ever between different regions on a brand new game
its a lot different vs a tournament 2-3 years later after 9-10+ internationals tournaments. especially consider again the teams NEVER played each other prior
surely you can see that lol
here's my point
you claim tenz was a top performer at berlin because of stats. but here's my point
here is a breakdown of tenz stats:
1.03 rating vs G2 (2 BO3s played)
0.96 rating vs Envy (1 BO3 played)
1.6 RATING vs F4Q (2 BO3s played)
can you really say with a straight face that tenz dominated berlin and was a top player there when he ONLY performed crazy good vs F4Q?
does farming 1 team in the tournament mean that he was dominant in a tournament with 16(15) teams?
and most Koreans will tell you that DRX is/was better they just choked vs them
this is not uncommon like when BBG or LG beat prime sentinels lmao
I told you clearly the reason I removed f4q is because they are noobs. not one player from them is pro anymore or in franchise, and 2 or 3 of the players never played another official after F4Q. and they played them TWICE (not because F4Q beat other teams like crazy raccoon but because of covid format situation)
and my point is proven even later as sentinels gets grouped in champs and tenz performances continues to decline
if we don't include opponent strength into stats, then nobody in VCT is the best player lmao it belongs to collegiate/GC players
"nats played crazy raccoons"
nats also played more matches and against better opponents and performed there too unlike tenz
sorry I fixed than you for pointing it out
I removed F4Q to emphasize the point that tenz's stats are inflated because of him beating on noobs for 2 matches
when you look at the stats you need to factor in opponent strength because if you dont then
sorry I misread what you said
"does this make Alfajer a fraud"
no because Alfajer had been and won multiple international tournaments prior to this tournament and put on crazy performances vs all the top teams of the world
this tournament he was ok. he had an insane game vs FUT but the rest of the games some underperformance. I wouldn't consider him a "top performer" for this tournament
"didn't say nobody ran her, said she was really bad in icebox"
she wasn't bad on icebox considering the agents that were released at the time (no kay0/harbor/fade.. etc)
"didn't know the meta" and "had completely separate metas" aren't mutually exclusive
when I say separate metas is that each team of their respective region had a different approach. EMEA didn't play double duelist and did combo of sage/double init + ctrl/ Korea was doing a bunch of weird breach/sage comps .. etc. X10 was X10.
prior to this tournament even EMEA didn't use astra much and thought she was bad (when she had 5 stars/op abilities) and jett wasn't spammed.
was sentinels ahead of the meta? yes.
but this is because again not a single international tournament was played, and teams from other regions never played or scrimped vs each other.
this is why it's a discredit to sentinels because right after sentinels won and teams adjusted they fell off. they went from grand finalists not dropping a map to knocked out first round in playoffs by another NA team and then grouped in champs.
remove the F4Q games (played them twice cuz another team got covid I think?)
and only use the games against top opponents (G2/Envy)
he had 1.04 rating if you do that
but nt
"wasn't remotely good in icebox"
here's a list of teams who ran Reyna icebox before reykjavik
Cloud9 - Poiz
100T - Asuna
Sentinels - TenZ
NV - Banned Icebox before reykjavik
FaZe - Corey
EG - Roca
ANDBOX - Mada
Immortals - Shot_up
but ok keep lying
"nobody even knows the meta now"
my point is no region before reykjavik even played each other NOT once and had completely separate metas. now you play each other a lot and bootcamp in the regions. and there is established metas such as ascent/haven/bind/icebox (comps didnt change much in 2022 2023)
how was that a blatant lie
EMEA didn't run astra much till that tournament and famously scream said sentinels ran astra good
fnatic didn't run double duelist which was meta at the time
tenz was reyna on icebox which was meta in NA at the time lol? have u never seen 100t with sauna on Reyna on icebox?
was 2021 only reykjavik because berlin/champs (half the year) he didn't do anything and was outperformed by everyone
why do people hype up his performance here so much
facts:
idk why people consider this "best prime/best performance"
theres been better performances if u give same amount of matches in tournaments to other players (nats/yay/chronicle/derke/Leo/cned.. etc)
eh I dont think he has as much potential as people think
yea he has good aim but so does pretty much everyone. what separates people is good positioning/teamwork/utility
which are all things he severely lacks and has lacked for his entire career in CS + val.
yes/no
depends on the person. you have to remember you live in a world where people are attracted to their cars.
for the majority, looks are the initial attraction but "everything else" is definitely not secondary to that. they can be as if not more important, but like I said it depends on person.
and guess what?
it's dumb to cut a player right after playing 2 matches lol
almost no team is going to cut someone usually after 2-3 matches lmao
and yes sentinels got marved because dephh was going to retire + he was a f/a on the roles they needed
I rewatched the game and they went like B every round
I think it was nerve and I think yay was pissed at nerve saying what are u going to do A
because they went B almost every round prior to that 0-4
so thats why he said focus on ur bombsite B and let him focus on A
but idk its hard to tell without context
its almost as if there's a thing called roster lock and it happened right after lockin
thus removing any ability for ANY team to make roster changes including NRG
fns has always spoken really highly of yay a lot
chet too and they hangout on stream too
also what do you mean they didn't want to play with him
he was trialing with nrg not too long ago lol
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