Explain this: how is a team winning champions better than a team winning a masters (considering both are at their tourney winning form) I agree that champs is more important due to the venue, the fact that it’s the big tournament of the year, and the prize money, but that doesn’t mean that it’s any more of a win. Teams play as hard to win during a masters, and just because there aren’t as many rewards shouldn’t discredit their win (only case where you can argue an exception is Madrid, as there were only 8 teams)

I DO believe winning a champions title is more important for a team, as it is the biggest and last tournament of the year, but that doesn’t mean that a team that wins champs is any better than a team winning a masters.

If we’re looking at Edg at their peak (champs) vs suppose Gen G at their peak (Shanghai) the fact that edg won champs doesn’t make them better in any way. Sure, it might make them more important, but it’s not a valid reason to argue that they are better whatsoever

“Best year”:

1st place kickoff, split 1+2 in Cn (means nothing bc most of these teams play worse than teams from 2021) all the while losing to some of the worst teams imaginable (Drg, Wolves, etc)

Bombed out of both Shanghai and Madrid with abysmal (to say the least) performances.

Played really well at champs

Ok so they had 1 good international lan

Look man, explain one thing to me and I will understand your argument completely without question: How does winning a champions mean you are a better team than winning a masters? Don’t give me any bs about titles, prize money, or whatever riot says. Answer the question fair and square without dodging anything.

Where does this logic come from lil bro. How does winning champs mean you are a better team than if you win a masters. They are both international events with large amounts of competitive teams

I don’t care about the title!! Call yourself whatever, but how does that make you a better team throughout the ENTIRE year?? If you said the best team at champs, then ok, there is a valid argument to be made, but 1 title doesn’t determine your overall performance throughout a year!

I don’t care what riot says, I don’t care about prize money, just explain to me: how does winning champs prove that you’re a better team than winning a masters. Don’t give me bs answers about prize money, titles, hype, venues, or any of that bs. Answer the question straight

THIS is a valid take. I would disagree by saying that the amount of top teams that edg had to take down was much less (only Sen, lev, and Th), but I’m not going to deny that they played kino valorant

Players play to win to prove that they are the best in the world at that given moment, not for any amount of money. Simple as that. Money is there so there is an objective reward for winning. If I were to have a race at an elementary school for $500,000 prize money but host an Olympics race with $25,000 prize money that doesn’t mean the elementary school race is more important, does it? There can be multiple prizes for winning, but the biggest is the claim for being the best in the world at that given moment, not whatever bs argument that you’re presenting “oh more money won equals team better duhhhhh”

Bro thinks the amount of money won = skill. Where do you get this idea?? Explain to me I want to be as enlightened or crack pipe high as you are

Buddy china doesn’t count. Fpx/Te were the only competition and the most they’ve ever done is upset like 1 good team. China is literally a 1 team region by definition

You aren’t answering the key question: What does money earned have to do with how good a team is?

No one said Gen G deserved champs. We said that Edg winning champs (a win they deserved) doesn’t prove that they are the best team of the year. You’re trying to shoot down points that no one provided

Why are you so insistent on prize money? It plays no role in how good a team is. If we cared about money TSM would still be the best team in the world. Use your brain before your keyboard

I don’t give a shit about map pools or their performance a million months ago.

The fact is this:

Gen G won kickoff fair and square. I’m not going to argue that it was dominant, because they were given tough matches by teams like RRQ and PRX, but nonetheless they won kickoff.

Gen G looked extremely dominant in Madrid, but got barely edged out by Sen, who were also a serious force

They cooled down in split 1, but still were dominant over 90% of pissific, getting 2nd place.

They shit on everyone in Shanghai, havinng a performance rivaling Fnc at Tokyo, despite the fact that they had almost no supporters, barely any teams wanted to scrim with them, and on top of that the team was sick.

Cooled down again split 2, although still looking dominant especially towards the end, getting 1st seed champs

Got grouped in champs to a fully rejuvenated sen roster and an eventual 2nd place TH (Although I will admit their second game against sen didn’t make them look too hot)

Compare this to EDG:

1st place in Kickoff, split 1, and split 2. Sounds insane on paper, and even though it does show that they are clearly the best in the region, their only competition was FPX, which were obviously not a force to be reckoned with. EVEN THOUGH they placed first in split 1+2, they still lost to literal bottom of the barrel teams like DRG and wolves, but hey, it’s league play so I won’t hold it against them.

Grouped in Madrid, initially beating a new PRX, where they did play pretty well, only to get fucking bodied by Loud, in one of the most embarrassing matters in VCT history.

Bombed out in Shanghai, I don’t really remember much of them in that tournament, mostly because they only played 2 games lol, but hey, it happens and I can’t hold 1 bad tournament against them too much

Played out of their minds during champs. I will admit, Edg deserved the trophy. But to be fair, they were riding a hot wave. If during any point Chichoo, smoggy, or kk didn’t go crazy, they would have been eliminated by Sen, Lev, or th. Not to mention they got an extremely easy placement, being drawn into trace r1. Th on the other hand had to go against Fnc, Lev, Drx, and Sen to get to GF. If we were to compare these teams objective skill in champs, and not just Edg players feeling it, teams like Th, lev, or sen played objectively better valorant, they just didn’t have Lady Luck on their sides and had to play much harder teams to get to were they were.

In conclusion: Yes, edg deserved to win champs, part of winning a tournament involves showing up performance wise for the day, and getting good draws, and I can’t hold that against edg. On the other hand, though, other teams were dealt with much worse circumstances and provided better results than edg for most of the tournament (the only time edg played like the best team in the world was in UF and GF) and if we were to run these matches again, or even compare average skill, peak skill, or any metric, edg at most gets to top 3 teams throughout the entire year, and that too is a stretch. Learn the difference between whether a team wins a tournament vs their individual prowess and skill throughout a season.

1) I don’t give a fuck about prize money, that doesn’t determine which team is good or not (players play to win, not for prize money)
2) Again, 3/4 of their grand finals were against FPX, a team that literally has no business being considered a good team
3) again, they get champs points from farming shitty Chinese teams that can barely play the game
4) explain to me how a champions win is better than a masters win. Idfc about the money or venue or hype, just explain how it takes more skill and effort to win a champs trophy. “oH iT hAs FoUr MoRe TeAmS” yeah bs teams like kru blg and talon just embarrass themselves by shitting the bed in groups

Read the room retard

Look man be honest and tell me straight to my face that GenG in Shnaghai form would have lost to Edg. Only reason TH list is because they are a team of rookies that always choke BO5s. Edg might have won some regional titles, but they looked like an absolute clusterfuck of a team through 80% of the year, and they only turned up for champs. Also China would be a bum region with 0 good teams without Edg, so regional titles mean jackshit for them. Pissific is shit but at least they have some decent teams like Drx and PRX. Chinas #2 seed shit the bed big time after 1 close series against TH. Edg played very well, I can’t deny that, but if fnatic, g2, lev, sen, geng, and th didn’t kill each other first, one of them would have lifted the trophy. Run this tourney back rn and edg are out round 2. Genuinely look into your soul and ask yourself if you actually think that Edg are even in consideration for best team of the year, let alone actually the best.

Bro edited his comment 💀💀

Yeah it sounds bad when you say it like that, but if you actually put it in practice it would probably look a hell of a lot worse ngl

Fns never played well on initiator. It allowed him to lead better, as he could combo util and play with the team better, but he was never comfortable on these agents, then again he was never good individually anyways

Imma be honest ofc this roster would find results, but the roles are all fucked up. Here how I would run it:

Duelist: Derke- the more flexible duelist, he can play yoru raze and Jett all at a high level both aggressively and passively
Smokes: S0m/Demon1- S0m’s too good of a smokes player to take him off his role. I could see demon1 playing astra on pearl/split if they play double controller, as omen is def getting nerfed
Initiator: Ethan/Crashies- my pick would be crashies as his agent pool is better suited for the roster, but Ethan’s also an insane player
Flex: Fenis/Ethan- I think Ethan is a better flex player (he plays flashes, yoru, and omen compared to Fenis’s flashes and viper)
Senti: Demon1/Fenis- Demon1 played a lot of Kj and chamber before EG, and he’s passive enough on smokes to be comfortable on senti. Plus with split coming back he can play Jett like how meteor/alfa play senti normally but play duelist on double duelist comps.

In conclusion, put players on their comfort roles. Build comps around the players agents and playstyles, not vise versa

Fuck sen fans actually scum of the earth subhuman creatures

Bro wishes he was the mouse

Imma be fr there were so many times in champs were woot sold (especially on icebox) by aggroing with miniboo, or just aground in general. I think he’s an insane player but he’s not fully comfortable in the flex spot. 2025 he cooks everyone on any agent tho

Go outside dawg

He made it up

-Tuyz +Sato

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE

Loud. Liked them in 2022 but really appreciated them in 2023 after losing 2 players and a coach, still delivering extreme performances and only slightly falling short. Sadhaak 🐐🐐

eKo played on a full Japanese team, he speaks the language, he’s a good player, why not?

Imagine if Kadoom played for Boom that would be pretty funny

I thought dep wasn’t at his best but still played well in some series

How could I improve the roster

With Laz most likely retiring and the team in general having an abysmal performance last year, here’s the changes I propose (Side note: I haven’t watched a lot of VCJ and I’m only really somewhat familiar with the popular teams like fennel, scarz, etc. A lot of this is based on performance and ratings)

Keep:

Dep: Obviously insane player. Was the only good player other than laz, and I don’t think anyone would disagree that he shouldn’t go.

Drop:

Literally everyone else: Poor individual performances with little signs of growth from the two newcomers, I see very little reason for them to stay.

Sign:

eKo: Very solid player. I think he was good on geng early in their 2023 season, and is a solid initiator that can also frag.

CLZ: As fennel is disbanding, this would be a huge opportunity to pick up some huge talent.

Allen: Very solid smokes player, mainly picking him bc of 2023 results, and I think that if we plays like he did then that he could be a pretty serious addition.

SyouTa: Another solid ex fennel player. Don’t know much about them specifically but stats and agent pool look solid and they were on fennel

Roster:

Duelist: Dep
Scans: eKo
Flashes/IGL: CLZ
Smokes: Allen
Senti/flex: SyouTa

Let me know if I cooked or not

🇯🇵🇯🇵🧑‍🍳🧑‍🍳

Sen fan = opinion disregarded

We pray for the bags to speak 🙏🙏

You literally looked at my argument and went nuh uh not his fault lol. Also, how do you know that nobody in the Thai scene is as good as them? Where were the entirety of geng before 2024? Nobody cared about any of them except for maybe munchkin

Age doesn’t really matter that much (Fns and jessievash still have careers and they’re edging 65+)
Frost literally told primmie to igl abyss vs TS bc they didn’t scrim it and he was the only one who had any experience on it, and frost was betting on ts not picking it. Frost also constantly openly negatively criticizes the team while making no active moves to make positive changes.
If primmie doesn’t want to play duelist, put him on flex and take some young t2 Thai kid and put him on duelist instead
Full Thai allows the team to communicate better and connect more

No he hasn’t won shit as yet (not his fault he was subbed into a failing roster last minute)

Xand has an aura where entire of f0natic would flee at the sight of him

Duelist: Primmie
Senti: Jitboys
Smokes: Sscary
Initi: Cgrs
Flex: PTC

Conclusion: kick all the shit members, kick frost (bum coach), go full Thai, buy out sscary and save him from bl00d, make Thai valorant great again

🇹🇭🇹🇭🧑‍🍳🧑‍🍳

Ok buddy if you don’t understand something just say so, no need to play smart guy

The guy with a washed ass t2 flair said I have brain damage

Louder for the people in the back

Flair

Yeah, I was going to put Kajaak on the roster but apeks look too good atm, if go next ascend instead then maybe kajaak or someone can take the spot

Keep:

Grubibho: Rookie year on a shitty koi roster, I think individually he pulled his weight in frags, and looked sexy while doing it.

Drop:

Starxo: He won a trophy based on pure luck, and I don’t think he’s been a good player ever since. There’s a reason why he’s never seen anything since.

Shadow: Didn’t see much potential from him, both as an Igl and as a player.

Sheydos: Not a bad player, but his age combined with the fact that he hasn’t been able to perform on any role as of recent doesn’t sell him well for another year on KOI

Kamo: Again, not another bad player but I don’t have a place for him on my rebuild of the roster, and with how bad the clusterfuck of the roster was this year I think it’s OK if he goes.

Sign:

Patitek: Obviously great player in terms of agent pool, util, and performance. Put work in on TH and he has a good reason to stay.

Zeek: Been great recently, and I think that out of the original acend team he’s the only one other than cned with proper firepower.

Ardiis : Now that he’s off N0VI he has a chance to join a real team without Ang0l.

Nukkye: Solid player for giants, he can play sova and stuff but I think he’s been solid on senti these last two years.

Roster:

Smokes: Grubinho 🇵🇱
Initi/raze: Zeek 🇵🇱
Initi/jett: Ardiis 🇱🇻
Flex: Patitek 🇵🇱
Sentinel: Nukkye 🇱🇹

Idk who’ll igl, and the roles are a bit fuzzy but I think that with the firepower and experience (3 different trophies) it has a decent chance of working out. Plus we will have another proper eastern roster.

🇵🇱🇱🇹🇱🇻🧑‍🍳🧑‍🍳🧑‍🍳

Holy brain damage you’re actually retarded if you think apoth HELD EG back. This guy was so goated on senti, a role he flexed on. Go back to r/valcompetitive if you plan to spew bullshit

Bros work cited is intuition and a crack pipe 😭😭

Aspas has been more consistent over 3 years than oxygen has been over 1 split.

We need Shaz00b back

We need Shaz00b back