very hard to say. I could see EG 2-0ing both of them, I could also see three close maps 2-1 with any team winning. but EG genuinely looked like they were the best team in the world in that DRX series - their teamplay, util, antistratting, communicating were all insane. DRX did look a bit shaky esp on Fracture, but EG also had hella stuff cooked up. curious to see how they'll perform when they get antistratted

it's likely that's what will happen over time, I'm just addressing the fact that there isn't a hard, concrete definition of what tier 1 actually means. The Union, MxM, M80, TGRD would likely all beat MIBR, KRU, and potentially LEV, FURIA, 100T in their current forms

im surprised no one has said this - there is no concrete definition for what a tier 1 team is compared to what a tier 2 team is. it is all subjective - nothing has been defined by Riot, or even any pro player

automatically categorizing franchising teams into tier1 makes no sense - they're tier 1 because they're franchised? tiers should be based on a combination of accolades/average skill/peak sill, meaning teams like DFM are tier 2-3, while MxM would be tier 1

the argument of "but his aim is worse now!" - yeah, if you've actually watched the games, you see he frequently tries to overcompensate for his team by peeking far more aggressively than he's used to, which either means

1. he's being told to play more aggressively and take duels, or
2. he doesn't trust his team to get the frags, so he forces unnecessary duels, leading to gunfights where he's 'disadvantaged' compared to OPTC who set him up for every single play, building their gameplan solely around him

his aim is definitely not what it used to be, but like I said, that can likely be attributed to being in uncomfortable positions and losing confidence in himself because he doesn't thrive in those new positions. if he got tossed back on a tier 1 team who set him up properly, who knows? he might still be shit.

but it's foolish to say he's just bad now - going from dunking on every team in the world to whiffing against lower tier teams doesn't randomly happen

I would have to agree, though TGRD, MxM, and M80 have been looking great strategically recently, skillwise I think they're not on par with the upper echelon, but tactically, they do have a shot in franchising

bold of you to assume that there is actually a massive tier difference between teams in Champions League and Challengers. M80/MxM/TGRD vs KRU/MIBR, who you taking? Arguably you can toss in 100T and FURIA with their current form

he was the 3rd best chamber in NA when chamber was a thing, correct me if I'm wrong. compared to all of the duelists in challengers, except koala, he's more complete, has a longer career (i.e. more experience), and with his recent trajectory, has potential for more in champions

edit: he performed pretty damn well on NRG. not really sure where this take is coming from, the guy above is right, tex has only improved since then

he has an insane peak, all of m80 do, I think they have a higher skill ceiling than TGRD but aren't showing it this split

completely unrelated, but do the names recky, dVeen, or clone mean anything to you? used to play with them back in ESEA and I swear I recognize your name from those days

I swear they said they wanted buzz to be on duelist, right?

This take sounds smart, but I'm not sure you've really followed DRX since the beginning. Historically, they just get mentally boomed as international tournaments continue. They broke through that hump at Champs and LOCK//IN, so they've got that going for them. But all the analysts consistently agree - they have a crisp gameplan, crisp executes, but once teams see a few of their matches and anti-strat them, they're fucked.

It's the coaching staff. They need more flexibility in the IGLing department, which stax provides, he just needs more time to cook

Chronicle, the #2 rated player in EMEA up until finals, was -30 or so. That was clearly a once in a blue moon match for him, and Derke was also getting diffed hard by Sayf, which won't consistently happen either. If all of them play like they were on average, i.e. Chronicle #2 EMEA, Derke #1/#2 duelist EMEA, I can see FNC running through a lot of teams

What do you believe the direct issue is, then?

Fair point

Surprised you say M80 would cream them, M80 have fallen off from their peak in Split 1 IMO. They don't look more refined and they've been struggling, although competition has skyrocketed. Moist look incredible with bonkar on the coach role, I could easily see them winning things too, esp since bonkar has EU anti-strat experience

We're extrapolating to say they clear any other roster. D3ffo was a consistent liability in matches - they had great strats, consistency, and teamplay, but mechanically, he was a massive hole. Compare him to any other top duelist - Derke, aspas, leaf, ardiis, Sayf, demon1 - he just wasn't up to snuff back then, and he most certainly isn't now.

I don't disagree on the Sheydos point, he's fucking cracked, but realistically, any roster from 2022 would not be able to compete with teams now. Maybe if Gambit stuck around until now they could've, but Gambit 2022 would not compete with LOUD, NRG, FNC, Liquid, DRX, PRX 2023

Do you think Fallen and Fer have what it takes to be top tier players again? Fallen fell off of a cliff after joining TL and Fer I'm not too aware of

If we're talking about every teams' peak
S tier - LOUD, FNC, NRG, PRX, NAVI
A tier - TL, DRX, EDG, EG (w/ demon1)
B tier - T1, FUT, ASE

They have the potential to be better than the previous iteration. tuyz has a very high peak already for such a young, relatively unmolded player, and cauanzin has a higher skill ceiling than aspas IMO, which says a lot, but he's nowhere near as versatile as Sacy and is not an S-tier initiator utility-wise. But for both of them, that'll come with time

This LOUD roster could be the undisputed #1 with a mental coach, but I feel the same about C9, Liquid, NAVI, and DRX. Just a matter of time before one of them invests more heavily in that and becomes the pinnacle of VAL

Completely unrelated - what do you think TGRD's chances of making it to Champions League are? I think they are favorites for NA Challengers, and they have a bit of international experience, but getting mentally boomed seems to be their most significant gripe currently

i don't disagree that some more veteran presence would've pushed them through, but we cannot discredit the fact that FNC accomplished that after being up 2-0, choking to 2-2, and being down 11-3

Even still, that is a chink in their armor. A less experienced (no pun intended) caller will always make mistakes at some point even if they make great calls sometimes. Not saying LOUD is bad by any means - just saying they're not indefatigable like a lot of people say they are

I saw, I had edited my message already
Do you really think 7k difference is enough to incentivize individuals to try extremely hard?

1. But with Demon1, anything is possible brother
2. Agreed
3. They almost threw Fracture after saadhaak's 1v3 ace - he got hyped on adrenaline and started calling rushes every round which almost threw the match. Shows a tiny chink in their armor - if he gets revved up, he'll make abrupt calls
4. I think with more time, C9 have potential to be number 1. Playoffs was the first time they got challenged and they got mentally boomed in a few of those matches they lost

hard disagree. Chadhaak's teams have always been better than Chronicle's up until FNC. Don't think you can really call LOCK//IN a lucky win considering how mentally boomed FNC were and how much LOUD were thriving at 11-3 up. The mental resilience to make that comeback is immense - especially already being down 2-0 in the series, saying that LOUD are a far better team overall is... extrapolating, for sure.

re: 2 teams with unknown players... not really. Except for tuyz, all of the players he has played with have been top players in Brazil since aspas & friends was a thing

Either way, don't think Chronicle is the goat even though he is the most accomplished player. He is the best flex player for sure - rated top2 EMEA up until this grand final, but I'd have to argue more for Boaster or Derke being the goat.

If NRG won one pistol on each Ascent and Bind, they probably would have taken both of them, to be fair

Is there money for playoffs? I don't see it on the VLR event page I checked just now and it changed since yesterday

Also, trophy is cool and all, but all teams who made it to grand final across the 3 Champions Leagues got to Tokyo, so the match really isn't super important except for seeding, i.e. teams likely did not go ALL OUT to win it.

That being said, LOUD looked fantastic, NRG did as well. I think that every single playoffs team can win Tokyo, as can NRG, NAVI, DRX, and EDG (i.e. all on similar peak levels). Great to see the game at this level

literally every single VLR user tells you you're wrong
"muh... it's TSM!!!"
wake up

stellar is a fantastic IGL and has shown he has a high skill ceiling. i dont think stellar is the issue, frankly i just think they need to reevaluate the way they look at the game to be more structured like they were with sgares. the team worked great with will and sean - then when an inarguably more skilled player came in under the same leadership structure, they won Red Bull. then when they moved away from that structure, they've started losing.
stellar isn't the issue

this is me being nitpicky, but is disputing 60% vs 70% really worth it?
on your point about needing a better coach... OPTC literally discussed how Mikes was an incredible assistant coach, seangares and other top coaches in the scene said he did great work, and stellar has said in interviews that he has a lot more freedom as an IGL now.
their performance with sean in the team was better, right? when stellar had less freedom?
the coach is not the issue. the issue is with how the structure of the team is set up

thank you for this. this is great info to know, unfortunate for his career that he isn't willing to change his ways after already having issues historically with his attitude

you have the attitude. weirdo

yeah fnatic also werent at their best then. Also, worldwide rankings are

1. fnatic
   2-4. LOUD/DRX/C9
2. NAVI
3. NRG
   7-??. Tossup between EMEA and Americas
   Regions really are not that far off from one another my man

you're smoking

All good broski, have a good night

Each day, it seems there's yet another VLR user who, without reading the entire thread they're commenting on, fails to realize that their claim lacks coherence.

that's what im thinking too, they do have hella potential if they can get their mental in line though. feel like jake is the main weak point but he has some insane moments as is, and he's so young

what are you even trying to say here?

fnatic has
#1 initiator
#1 flex
#1 or #2 duelist
#3 IGL (after FNS and saadhak)
#2 sentinel (skillwise, not brainwise)

none of the other teams are that close

fair enough. we'll just have to see

they beat c9 week 2 of a roster with a brand new IGL while getting blown out on one map that LOUD have been picking since then. not really sure what using the same comps has to do with anything, like i said, they might have stuff cooked up, but the argument that loud won over a month ago isnt really feasible here

LOUD is likely hiding stuff for masters, but i dont think you can really say they've definitively over C9 after what they've been showing. struggling against EG, KRU, getting blown out by NRG
NAVI have some shit cooked up for sure, these Yoru comps are so troll but they're locked in so i guess we'll see how they do there. same as LOUD though - with current form, i dont think we can definitively say they're better than c9

id agree. c9 has potential but isnt internationally proven

explain. runi is performing consistently better when it comes to fragging, like i said, likely not a better IGL, but im not sure how you can claim boaster is more skilled. he has his moments, but isn't extremely consistent

i didnt make a claim about who was better you fragile donkey. fnatic would win

Assuming they beat KRU easily like they should, they'll only be second to fnatic when it comes to round differential with 3x the maps lost (+71, 3 maps vs +92, 1 map), and by a thin margin at that.
If fnatic loses to NAVI, then C9 can overtake them, but we all know that's quite unlikely.

leaf gets just under 2x as many first kills as first deaths, more assists per round than the majority of Americas' duelists, and has crazy consistency.
derke is ever so slightly behind leaf in the FK/FD department, at 1.75x as many FK as FD, a bit behind the curve when it comes to APR, but still has crazy consistency.

runi > boaster skillwise, tough to say who's a better caller.

alfajer > zellsis skillwise, but the presence/motivation zellsis brings is unparalleled

chronicle > xeppaa. man's insane

leo is clearly best init in the world, not even close. runi's got work to put in

who yall got winning?

nah, LOUD just haven't updated their Split and it's readable. they're not hiding anything on Split guaranteed

m80 fan

how does it compare to BotW? haven't read anything about it, would love the lowdown from some fellow VALORANT gremlins

in 2023 apparently

it's unfortunate you have good taste in literature for being such an odd human

where does it say benched

...why would I lie?