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Flexibility is so overrated.

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#1
The_Cleg

It's mind blowing to me

In a world where aspas has been dominating for 3 years straight, there are still some people who call f0rsakeN the goat

In a world where RB was basically consistently bottom 2 (considering the IGL as well) in stats for his team every single event, he was one of the most appreciated players

How is this possible? Anybody can play every agent if they don't need to be good at it.

BEING
FLEXIBLE
IS
NOT
THAT
BIG
OF
A
DEAL

Actually quite the opposite. Notice how basically every team who won a major had very structured roles? I rest my case.

Stop overrating flexibility merchants (f0rsakeN is still a top 10 player oat probably)

Edit to clarify: I'm not talking about aspas/chronicle/MaKo's level of flexibility, I'm talking about playing 7+ agents flexibility.

I think being able to play 3/4 agents + maybe learn a new one if the team needs it is straight up underrated

#2
HongEunchae
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demon1 raze

main duelist cant main duelist

#3
The_Cleg
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I mean one thing is being a flexibility merchant another one is being a one trick player

#28
koromast
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he isnt a one trick player he is good on astra and brim too, iΒ΄d argue he is as good on those agents as he is in jett

#41
The_Cleg
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One trick duelist then?

I mean he built his agent pool because of what EG needed tbf it's not even his fault if EG is such a bad org and now he finds himself needing to expanding it because it shouldn't have happened in the first place tbf

#50
koromast
7
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being fair with demon1 he was a rookie last year and already won champs, people talk about him as if he was a 4 years of career no achievements guy who shouldnt have more motivation in him, but im pretty sure he will probably learn raze if he gets time with it, people might not remember but aspas wasnt necesarily top 3 razes back then and now he undoubtedly is because he grinded and is now on an insane level i think demon1 can definitely overcome his agent pool flaws but that wouldnt solve the calling problem so he is in a bad position rn in his career because not only he has to learn a new role, his team also is learning new agents constantly like ethan on omen, marved playing viper on maps he wasnt used to play it, crashies playing more flashers than recon initiators lately and victor having to switch between controller sentinel and duelist.

#55
The_Cleg
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Yeah I mean that's true but it wasn't even the point of my post, even if I can understand how some people thought it was ig.

I'm talking about people who overrate being incredibly flexible, like playing 6/7+ agents.

Being able to flex on 3/4 agents + be able to learn a new agent if the team needs it is straight up underrated imo

Still it's funny that even if I say 100% agreeable things I get down voted lol

#62
koromast
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yeah im not the kind of guy to downvote on conversations tbh, and i actually agree with that "being able to learn new agents fast > having 8 agents already learned but they took you a considerable amount of time to learn"

#66
The_Cleg
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Yeah I mean we are pretty much on the same page lol

You literally just expanded on what I wrote (demon1 unfortunate situation), basicslly agreeing with me but somehow you have like 10 upvotes I have -10🀣

I actually agree with down voting and upvoting but it seems like they don't even read what I'm writing lol

#4
SleepyBear
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y0y

#5
messithegoat
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4/10 yap

#7
The_Cleg
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Gimme a counter argument then

#21
K4ziuHa
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peerx wouldnt have 13-0d talon without f0rsaken britch

#30
The_Cleg
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What kind of counter argument is this😭

#33
K4ziuHa
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literally a joke πŸ˜”

#42
The_Cleg
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I've read real counter arguments way more brainless than that though

#6
Waking_W
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being able to play any role at such a high level and get value all the time is pretty good imo, not everyone can do it

#11
The_Cleg
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True, except that RB couldn't, but he still was overrated.

f0rsakeN clearly can, but still, if you'd rather have a 1.1 rating over a 1.4 just because he can play every agent I'd say you got your priorities messed up.
f0rsakeN is an incredible player I won't ever deny that.

#17
Waking_W
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never saw any RB glazing , dont know what you are on about

#24
The_Cleg
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Are you actually mad? Last year this site was FULL of RB glazers.

#47
Waking_W
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i am not that active on this site

#49
The_Cleg
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Well why are you talking about "I've never seen that happen", ofc you didn't if you weren't in the position to😭

#38
spookmeister
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i do NOT agree with his flexibility overrated take but you are legit lying if you say RB glazers didnt exist
any time i said bro was ass like 500 people came outta the woodwork to say he is one of the best players itw and the best flex itw and hes just inconsistent and hes really good and it would be like
after RBs 30th dogshit game in a row
and people would CONSTANTLY glaze

#45
The_Cleg
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BRO finally a person with some fucking Memory. Are people Just braindead in this site or straight up lying?

#70
takeshibank
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bro argues he never saw RB glazing then proceeds to say he is not active on this site. Where did common sense go

#72
The_Cleg
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Fr am I actually crazy? It seems like Im getting down voted for preaching common sense😭

Read also orchestra comment below this if you want to read a bit of braindeadness

#27
orchestra
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tell me you're not watching paper rex play without telling me you're not watching paper rex play

if you still think a "good" player decided by his stats result, i am sorry to say ur at least a platinum and having a brainrot

#32
The_Cleg
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But I never said that? I never said that oxy is better than f0rsakeN cuz he has better stats. Or invy. Or whatever.

Like actually wtf

#35
orchestra
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well im not saying u said that right? i said "if you still think" well maybe u have to learn to read again?

if you didnt think what i said so good for you then

#37
The_Cleg
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I obviously don't think so?

What am I even reading are you arguing against possible thoughts inside of my head??

#40
orchestra
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I always think that I still need to learn a lot of knowledge outside and inside the game, but after seeing you, I don't think I'm really stupid.

#44
The_Cleg
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Alr keep arguing against thoughts in my head and things I've never said.

That's exactly how arguments should work! Well done!

#84
takeshibank
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bro are you fighting demons in your head or what? you good????????????

#85
The_Cleg
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I love you you made my day

#86
orchestra
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uwu

#77
Crypto_816
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He's playing breach one of the hardest agents imo opinion to get kills on mainly cause all your util is made to help your team from a distance.

#8
Tryeue2
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flair

#9
iframedeez
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stopped reading when I saw fnatic flair

#10
BadlandsChugs
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"Notice how basically every team who won a major had very structured roles"

eg had 4 different players on smokes at different points in the champs grand final

#13
The_Cleg
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I mean that's why I said almost

And even then, the "roles" were kinda messed up but I think every player had 3/4 agents MAX

I mean c'mon don't tell me any player out of EG is "flexible" because that's kinda laughable

#78
Nachtel
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name all the teams that fit your criteria

#12
titanwithpp
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y0y/y8y

#76
Aayan
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this has gotta become the standard

#14
swvyboi1
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TenZ can do it all, he can be a worldclass Jett, a world class Raze, a world class omen, a world class breach, a world class kayo, and a world class gecko.

He can do it all.

#SENCITY

#16
The_Cleg
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OkπŸ‘

#15
alecksdesk
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mad cuz chr0nicle two tricks breach and viper and yet jason is better at both without even trying? while also igling and playing 20+ different agent?

f0rsaken clears no doubt, best flex player itw and its not close.

#19
The_Cleg
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f0rsakeN is clear of chronicle atm Ive never said that's not true.

How about you try to argue against my points instead of creating a straw man to argue against?

#34
BoF7ooM
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chronicle clears f0reskin the 50/50 fight merchant who inflates stats by playing in a region full of players in the playoffs who cannot shoot back. Chronicle 3 throphies, pooperex 2 grand finals choked. I rest my case.

#18
Astar
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ask this question to semen1 and y0y

#20
orchestra
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being flexible is not a big deal

ur literally saying that demonass jett 1 trick and y1y chamber 1 trick a good player?
all aim no brain i'd say

a great team need a good structures, a good structures need a great players

#29
The_Cleg
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Being flexible and not being a 1 trick player is not the same.

Ofc a bit of flexibility is needed if not a change of meta can literally destroy your career.

#22
Dawn4k
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Tell me you're iron without telling me you're iron....

#23
Mortadelo
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Funny how you mention Aspas because he’s been able to maintain his consistency because he was at a high level on Jett Raze and Chamber while most of the other superstars fell off for only being able to play 1 properly

#36
The_Cleg
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I'm talking about a different level of flexibility. Notice how my points were about f0rsakeN and RB being overrated for their flexibility and never aspas, chronicle, MaKo being overrated because of it

#25
tofubun
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allat

#26
bobosian
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you guys are forgetting that forsakken use to be the main duelist role

#31
CoCloudy
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people js be talking for the sake of talking

please take your silver takes out of here

#39
oriole
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We're in a year where there seems to be no structured meta at all. On different maps, we could have a double duelist comp, a double initiator comp, a double smokes comp or even a fucking double sentinel comp. At that point, it isn't really possible to have a structured role for everything- everyone has to be at least a bit flexible, and in this kind of scenario, someone like f0rsakeN, who can play basically any agent at a pro level, is very high valued.

#43
Pengu12
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The value of flexibility changes depending on the team you are on, it is important to either be able to be able to play your role entirely(ex - aspas who never has to be flexible cause he can ply raze and jett) or learn multiple agents from different roles

Some teams have concrete roles while others require liquid roles, imo having players that can learn new agents fast like f0rsaken or TenZ can never be bad, it allows you to experiment and helps set certain players up for success

#46
The_Cleg
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Actually first sane comment with a decent counter argument. I respect your take.

#48
Xyarin
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No other flex player is close to Forsaken in terms of agent pool or the way he plays all of those agent at highest level.
Aspas is Goat no doubt.
but if i had to make argument i would call Forsaken Goat because thats the only way Prx can try their comps. if Forsaken cant flex like he does. no way Prx would be this good.
Their comps need someone to adjust roles and its Forsaken. Also he is IGL now.
Playing all agents in the game as per requirement, putting up numbers while being Main caller of the team. I think its fair to call him GOAT.
A game where meta changes with updates and patches map reworkds and all. Forsaken might be most valuable player for any team.

Also if I ever have to talk about flex players i wont give forsaken as example since he is realms above all other flex in every region. so remove forsaken name from post when you are putting RB and other flex in that.

#51
NecxGen
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I actually agree wholeheartedly, but I do think f0rsaken is a real exception. Him being so good on practically any agent lets their team experiment with so much because if they need to fill any hole in their composition or playstyle they just have f0rsaken fill in a role. Him being so flexible allows his team in turn to also be insanely flexible, but he's really the only one in the scene who can do so. Every other flex is only really considered a flex because their roles are map dependent

#52
nobody___100
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flexibility is good because you can change stuff up and don't have to run the same thing over and over. take prx for example. their previous comp on lotus had cypher instead of breach. but because f0rsaken is a really good flex, he switched from sentinel to initiator and prx lotus has been insane since the change. or take tenz for example. not a conventional flex because he mainly plays omen, but he got off of yoru on bind to play gekko, and their bind has been better since. or victor for example. nrg been pretty mid recently, but in 2023, his ability to play both neon and raze in addition to kayo or killjoy helped nrg out a lot, given that ardiis could only play jett. additionally, having flexibility allows you to take other teams off guard with off-meta comps. also, I do want to point out: optic had victor, fnc had chronicle, so major winners do have flex players.

#53
pullupthen
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0 trophy region

#57
Xyarin
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your flair is edg bro
i mean i aint no hater but calling apac zero trophy region like you got one. thats crazy.

#54
Sky1k
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iron take

#56
AloneSolstice
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Sen and EG did not have set roles and they’ve won the most recent trophies

#58
uwukitten
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most teams have a sentinel, controller, duelist and flex. the flex is considered the hardest role since most people are unsuccessful on flex therefore even if you're putting up average numbers on flex relative to all the other roles, you're considered a great player since others can't do the same. as for general player flexibility on a team, I think 2023 EG is a great example of how important it is since all their players (except maybe boostio who was consistently sentinel) were flexing between different roles and were still playing comfort agents that they were great at

also just look at what NRG was doing this season, demon1 can pretty much only play jett/brim great and it hurt the team

in conclusion: you yapped

#60
The_Cleg
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I mean Ethan was consistently flash agent and C0M consistently recon agent.

The only two "flex" players were jawg and demon1 but that was due only to the fact that jawg cleared demon1 in using raze

#63
uwukitten
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c0m also played viper, ethan played yoru and boostio played brim a few times
doesn't look like much but that makes them overall more flexible than pretty much any team

#65
The_Cleg
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Tbf yoru is still a flash agent even if it's not an initiator.

You are right about C0M tho so I guess I agree with you.

Eg were a flexible team🀝

#59
s0ber
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this is why PRX have been doing well since 2022 where all the dominating teams have fallen off significantly (optic loud fnc) this allows them to keep up with metas these set roles only work for 2 tournaments lololol yapperrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

#61
humble_y0y_10k
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who is saying forsaken is the goat that one got me πŸ˜‚πŸ˜‚πŸ˜‚πŸ˜‚πŸ˜‚πŸ˜‚πŸ˜‚πŸ˜‚πŸ˜‚πŸ˜‚πŸ˜‚πŸ˜‚πŸ˜‚πŸ˜‚πŸ’€πŸ’€πŸ’€πŸ’€πŸ’€πŸ’€πŸ’€πŸ’€πŸ’€πŸ’€πŸ’€πŸ’€πŸ’€πŸ’€

#64
The_Cleg
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Actually so many people and it's insanely triggering and that's basically the sole reason why I did this post.

For some reason I'm getting heavy down voted --> either they don't understand my point (which I understand, they'd need to read a 15+ line essay with their TikTok brains), or they think f0rsakeN is the goat

#67
extan
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ur argument that f0rsaken isn’t the GOAT is absolute facts

your whole spiel about flexibility being overrated is just absolutely absurd. using the mediocre statistics of the traditionally best flexes doesn’t account for all the reasons why having a good flex player boosts a team in so many ways other than the KD count

  1. Allows for originality in compositions and map pools that elevates your team’s ability to remain competitive across metas
  2. Allows the rest of your team to play roles they are comfortable on so that they can keep putting up good statistical numbers
  3. Being able to flex across roles shows a deep macro understanding of the game that extends beyond your portion of the map or execute that is usually reserved only for IGLs

All in all the argument that flexibility is overrated is silly

#68
The_Cleg
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It can allow anything you want but has them ever allowed to win a trophy? Nah.

#71
extan
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did you read a single thing I wrote

#79
The_Cleg
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Yes and I agree with all of it, besides the last line.

But sure, having an incredible flex player is incredibly comfortable to a team.

It becomes overrated when people considered RB a great player and f0rsakeN the goat.

#69
smizuu
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silver

#73
Twentytwo
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Yapping about the pros while being silver is crazy, vlr people just yap without knowing the game it's so funny.

#74
The_Cleg
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Alr so ig you never had an opinion on anything
Bullshit ass take

#75
jixk
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flexibilty allows your teammates to play on there best play styles on there best roles it cannot be overrated imo making your entire team instantly better via your agent pool can never be a bad thing and having a player who can perform in any meta on any agent cannot be overrated
forsaken and prx in general proved that look at there placements across YEARS look at there placements 2nd-4th place avg is INSANE
look at how many teams have fallen off optic fpx loud to a certain degree and there still placing saying a player is overrated because they can play EVERY ROLE IN THE GAME on any agent is crazy
i do agree that teams who win have mostly stable roles but you need a good flex to win and good flex cannot be a bad thing because riot loves to make random changes before major tourneys

#80
Chirby
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Less people have mentioned this benefit of flexibility, but it allows a team to have so many more options during a roster re-build.
There could be great players available to be picked up, but the team already has a player for that role.

#81
doomvor
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I think the benefit to f0rsaken being able to play any agent has to do with his team. PRX tries weird stuff, and having a player who can play literally anything is incredibly useful.

I will add that I think the argument about it is completely pointless as I can't think of another player besides RB and f0rsaken that has this kind of flexibility.

#82
Onigirisucker
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all of this depends on the team, no?

if you're looking at most of the emea and america teams, Flexibility isn't a big deal because every player is trained for their own roles whatsoever. Take fnatic for example, where every player has their own respective roles that they play every single game and master.

But if youre looking at most of the apac and cn scenes, flexibility does matter, a lot even. Valued highly by the teams because the way teams play is not locked by roles and/or classes. they play whatever suits. Also, the teams on this region liked to switch meta and comps often so.

Saying flexibility of agents doesn't matter is not a wrong statement, it's just doesn't apply to every team and everybody.

#83
bearmans
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the only flex player playing 7+ agent in every week of their games is f0rsaken

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